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Anyway, having said that, I don't think abortion is "widely accepted".
Well, it's not so much that the act itself is widely accepted, as it is widely accepted that the mother has the right to decide what happens with her body. When looked at with that perspective, it's certainly widely accepted. In reality, the result of the differing perspectives is the same. Abortion occurs.

And 55 million abortions in 30 years sort of speaks for itself.
 

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Eh, you haven't clearly answered anything.


Of course I did. Apparently you didn't like it. Your initial premise is still wrong. It's not hypocritical to point out false teaching. This is taught by Jesus, Peter, Paul and John. It's very Christian. Remember now how you entered this thread.

All over the map.

These are different answers to ever moving goal posts. Maybe you should clarify what is hypocritical, as you've said there many things that are.

The guy that agrees with you has trouble spelling and said you were ignorant of your own religion. Just saying.

I thought he meant JBond, but I'll let him answer that if he cares.

So you only believe certain parts of the Bible of your choosing? How do you decide? What makes your picking and choosing of the Bible more correct than some other Christian sect that does the same thing? That seems a little like pop culture religion, doesn't it?

No I believe all of the bible. You can't take it á la carte; it's all or nothing. What God called ancient Jews to do is different than what He expected of them and for Christians to do, after He died on the cross. I don't decide, I take it on Christ's and his apostles words. Pure bible study answers all questions.

Paul in his epistles explains it perfectly what the conditioning of Levitical law meant and how we are not be subjected to it as a 'new creation' as he called it. Those adhering to and trying to make others live under the Levitical code were called Judaizers and he had strong words for them.

Wait, what? You believe it all? Well, yeah, except for a few parts. :thumbsup

I think you're struggling again. Follow as in practice, believing as in accepting it as knowledge. I'm not sinless and and I don't live a sin-free life. I know better but I still fall short in practice. (Thumbs down)


me some concrete examples. If there are so many, why did you use something as inane as faces of meth internet memes?
When did we peak? When did we start this moral backslide?

Because it's used here frequently to get laughs. Along with many other reported miseries that get laughs. And I've done my share of laughing as well.

I also didn't want tangents to derail the topic. Abortion, divorce, homosexuality are hot button topics that create tangents. Mocking others is pedestrian enough to not rise enough ire in some to go off on a tangent.

We probably started to backslide when we forgot what made us great as a nation and Western Civilization as a whole. It happens gradually over time and it's beginning certainly can't be pinpointed by me. It began before I was born. People either don't care, don't want to know or simply don't see the correlation: our education system has declined exponentially, families are degrading, with the commitment to marriage being nothing more than an inconvenience to be shredded when it gets too tough. And yes, like Peplaw said the killing of babies for convenience sake.I don't know what you personally think of these things, but I know what God thinks of them and as they are accelerating into the main stream of our culture, then yes, immorality is increasing like God said it would.
 
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Revelation isn't the only place in the Bible to find prophecy.

Agreed. Of the 360 prophecies, most Biblical scholars agree that 109 of them reference the Messiah. They are so unique and detailed only one entity could possibly fulfill all of them. They were written thousands of years before the appearance of Christ. They were not ordered and paid for by Constantine as our misinformed friend Jeebus believes.
 

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Is it a sin if you tolerate Catholicism and allow others to be "wrongly led"?

Christian's do not allow or forbid others to do anything. That is not our role. Maybe your are confusing Christianity with Islam. We can witness by sharing our faith and experiences. Others can come to their own conclusions.

Does tolerance mean having to agree with what other people believe? I don’t think so. Junk, you probably believe you are tolerant, and yet you do not seem to think much of Christianity. Are you being intolerant?

The fact is, people can be tolerant and not agree. You can be tolerant while strongly disagreeing with someone else’s views. In fact, it’s actually impossible to be tolerant if you agree with someone, because tolerance requires that you believe something different.
 

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10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus

I recently watched the documentary Zeitgeist (Part 1) as well as Bill Maher’s movie Religulous. Both made mention of claims often made that there are many stories that predate Jesus but have striking parallels. I decided to follow up on these claims and see what kind of information was out there to substantiate these assertions.

I found several websites run by Christians who obviously disputed all claims of any parallels to the life of Jesus. I also found several interesting books on the subject, such as The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Christianity Before Christ by Kersey Graves, and The Christ Conspiracy, and Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled by Acharya S.

As a non-christian, I am approaching this topic purely as an interested observer. I am assuming half of the people who read this will automatically say the claims are false and the other half will say they are true. The truth I found is that it is difficult to know for sure.

Here are ten of the figures often sited:

10. Buddha
Buddha.jpg

Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are said to have astonished all with their wisdom. Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for forty–seven days and Jesus for forty. Both wandered to a fig tree at the conclusion of their fasts. Both were about the same age when they began their public ministry:

“When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was calm, tranquil, self–possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince, determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great renunciation. At the time he was twenty–nine years of age… “Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age.” (Luke 3:23). Both were tempted by the “devil” at the beginning of their ministry: To Buddha, he said: “Go not forth to adopt a religious life but return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of the world, riding over the four continents.” To Jesus, he said: “All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give you, if you fall down and worship me” (Matthew 4:9). Buddha answered the “devil”: “Get you away from me.”

Jesus responded: “…begone, Satan!” (Matthew 4:10). Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth. According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist ascetic’s eye once offended him, so he plucked it out and cast it away. Jesus said: “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, and throw it away;.” (Matthew 5:29).


9. Krishna
Krishna.jpg

According to Bhagavata Purana some believe that Krishna was born without a sexual union, by “mental transmission” from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki, his mother. Christ and Krishna were called both God and the Son of God. Both were sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man. Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity. Krishna’s adoptive human father was also a carpenter. A spirit or ghost was their actual father. Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent. Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star. Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna’s parents stayed in Mathura. Both Christ and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted. Both were identified as “the seed of the woman bruising the serpent’s head.” Jesus was called “the lion of the tribe of Judah.” Krishna was called “the lion of the tribe of Saki.” Both claimed: “I am the Resurrection.” Both were “without sin.” Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine. Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured “all manner of diseases.” Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead. Both selected disciples to spread his teachings. Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners. Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies. Both were crucified and both were resurrected.

8. Odysseus
Ody.jpg

Homeric tales about Odysseus emphasize his suffering life, just as in Mark Jesus said that he, too, would suffer greatly. Odysseus is a carpenter like Jesus, and he wants to return his home just as Jesus wants to be welcomed in his native home and later to God’s home in Jerusalem. Odysseus is plagued with unfaithful and dim-witted companions who display tragic flaws. They stupidly open a magic bag of wind while Odysseus sleeps and release terrible tempests which prevent their return home. These sailors are comparable to Jesus’ disciples, who disbelieve Jesus, ask foolish questions, and show general ignorance about everything. It’s amazing that either Odysseus or Jesus ever manage to accomplish anything, given the companions they have, but this simply demonstrates the power and ability of the one true leader who has a divine mandate to lead the people out of darkness and into a brighter future.

7. Romulus
Rom.jpg
Romulus is born of a vestal virgin, which was a priestess of the hearth god Vesta sworn to celibacy. His mother claims that the divine impregnated her, yet this is not believed by the King. Romulus and his twin brother, Remus, are tossed in the river and left for dead. (A “slaughter of the innocents” tale which parallels that of Matthew 2:13-16). Romulus is hailed as the son of god. He is “snatched away to heaven” by a whirlwind (It is assumed that the gods took him), and he makes post mortem appearances. In his work Numa Pompilius, Plutarch records that there was a darkness covering the earth before his death (Just as there was during Jesus’ death according to Mark 15:33). He also states that Romulus is to be know afterwards as ‘Quirinus’; A god which belonged to the Archiac Triad (a “triple deity” similar to the concept of the Trinity).

6. Dionysus
Dion.jpg
Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.” He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.” He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.” He was identified with the Ram or Lamb. His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
 

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Well, it's not so much that the act itself is widely accepted, as it is widely accepted that the mother has the right to decide what happens with her body. When looked at with that perspective, it's certainly widely accepted. In reality, the result of the differing perspectives is the same. Abortion occurs.

And 55 million abortions in 30 years sort of speaks for itself.

So many only think of themselves when deciding to kill their unborn child. The unborn child has been relabeled to make it more palatable to those who's entire concern revolves around self. Our government has chosen to fund such actions bringing further legitimacy to this heinous act.

No worries. It will all get sorted out in the end.
 

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5. Heracles
Her.jpg
Heracles is the Son of a god (Zeus). It is recorded that Zeus is both the father and great-great- great grandfather of Heracles, just as Jesus is essentially his own grandpa, being both “The root and offspring of David” (Revelation 22:16) as he is part of the triune God which is the father of Adam and eventually of Jesus. Both are doubly related to the Supreme God.

Diodorus writes that,”For as regards the magnitude of the deeds which he accomplished it is generally agreed that Heracles has been handed down as one who surpassed all men of whom memory from the beginning of time has brought down an account; consequently it is a difficult attainment to report each one of his deeds in a worthy manner and to present a record which shall be on a level with labours so great, the magnitude of which won for him the prize of immortality.”

Jesus is also said to have done a very large number of good works. John 21:25 says that: “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”

Hera tries to kill Heracles as an infant by sending two serpents after him, yet Heracles survives by strangling them. This parallels Herod’s slaughter of the innocents in an attempt to kill Jesus (Matthew 2:13-16).

Heracles makes a descent into Hades and returns from it with Theseus and Peirithoüs, just as Jesus descends into the “lower parts of the earth” or Hades (Ephesians 4:7-8); Though Jesus does not bring anyone up from it. Heracles’ body is not found and he is assumed to have been taken by the gods:”After this, when the companions of Iolaüs came to gather up the bones of Heracles and found not a single bone anywhere, they assumed that, in accordance with the words of the oracle, he had passed from among men into the company of the gods.”

4. Glycon
Gly.jpg
In the middle of the 100s AD, out along the south coast of the Black Sea, Glycon was the son of the God Apollo, who: came to Earth through a miraculous birth, was the Earthly manifestation of divinity, came to earth in fulfillment of divine prophecy, gave his chief believer the power of prophecy, gave believers the power to speak in tongues, performed miracles, healed the sick, and raised the dead.


3. Zoroaster
Zoro.jpg
Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.” He was baptized in a river. In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom. He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil. He began his ministry at age 30. Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.” He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man. He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse. He had a sacred cup or grail. He was slain. His religion had a eucharist. He was the “Word made flesh.” Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 AD and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

2. Attis of Phrygia
Attis.jpg
Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana. He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected.

1. Horus
Horus.jpg
Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.



Jamie Frater
Jamie is the founder of Listverse. He spends his time working on the site, doing research for new lists, and cooking. He is fascinated with all things morbid and bizarre.

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JBond

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10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus

I recently watched the documentary Zeitgeist (Part 1) as well as Bill Maher’s movie Religulous. Both made mention of claims often made that there are many stories that predate Jesus but have striking parallels. I decided to follow up on these claims and see what kind of information was out there to substantiate these assertions.

There have been individuals throughout history that appeared to be in line with one or two of the prophecies concerning Messiah. Only one has met all 109 of them.

The fact that your are doing a little research is encouraging.
 

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There have been individuals throughout history that appeared to be in line with one or two of the prophecies concerning Messiah. Only one has met all 109 of them.

The fact that your are doing a little research is encouraging.

I've been researching this 24/7 since this thread began. This is just the tip of the iceberg. New shit has come to light, man.
 

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Concerning the 10 'Christ-like' figures: Have you ever looked into their stories to see if any of these things were actually attributed to them?

Dionysis was not said to be born on Dec 25 and neither was Jesus until the Romans supplanted the pagan holiday on that date. Jesus was proably born in late Sept/early October during the feast of Tabernacles but no one is sure.

The Isis story is based on the ancient Babylonian Queen Semiramis and Nimrod/Tammuz, the hunter. The names were eventually changed to their Egyptian names, Isis and Horus and then she becomes the Greek Aphrodite. Samaramis son/husband Nimrod died and she miraculously gave birth to him again in the form of Tammuz. Tammuz is mentioned in Ezekial as an idol. It wasn't a virgin birth, but miraculously from her dead husband. The mother-child thing is where Catholicism gets its Mary, Queen of Heaven worship that is not biblical.


There's nothing remotely Christ-like about Buddha. He was married, left his family to expound on idea's and died, never to raise up for anyone's sin or offer a path to salvation.

Some of the others, I've never heard of, but I'm sure a genuine look into their stories will reveal most of these things were never attributed to them until much later.
 

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Bless you my son.

robertson_gives_finger.1.jpg
 

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VTA said:
Of course I did. Apparently you didn't like it. Your initial premise is still wrong. It's not hypocritical to point out false teaching. This is taught by Jesus, Peter, Paul and John. It's very Christian. Remember now how you entered this thread.

What do you think my original premise was? As I recall, it was that this thread was humorous and I found certain aspects of it hypocritical and not very Christian. I've primarily been asking questions in this thread and pointing out areas that I find to be hypocritical along the way.

For example, your mother-in-law is a better Christian than you, but you still feel the need to speak out against her beliefs. You believe all of the Bible except for certain parts. Those were two that you've brought up yourself since we've started this discussion.

These are different answers to ever moving goal posts. Maybe you should clarify what is hypocritical, as you've said there many things that are.

Here's my general view of the world. I'm a big, big believer in individual freedoms. Freedom of religion, for example. I think people should be free to follow whatever path they choose if it helps bring them the peace they need to be a better person and live a better life. Christian, Mormon, Buddhist, Hindu, Islam, Scientology.....whatever, I really don't care. Who knows which one is right. That is why it is called faith.

However, I've usually seen outrage when these freedoms are attacked. In particular, if I had spent time in this thread condemning or belittling Christianity, no matter how politely I did it, I'm sure the result would have been much, much different.

I've never seen different sects of Christians attack each other like this thread and I found it surprising, amusing and hypocritical.

No I believe all of the bible. You can't take it á la carte; it's all or nothing. What God called ancient Jews to do is different than what He expected of them and for Christians to do, after He died on the cross. I don't decide, I take it on Christ's and his apostles words. Pure bible study answers all questions.
Hey, I'm far from a Bible expert. But, if you believe it all, how can you pick and choose which pieces to follow especially when they are contradictory? Matthew versus Paul's epistles for example? Aren't Paul's epistles the earliest version of pop culture religion?

I mean, aren't different sects of Christianity largely based upon interpretation of the Bible? So, they're "wrong" because they read and interpret things differently than you?

I think you're struggling again. Follow as in practice, believing as in accepting it as knowledge. I'm not sinless and and I don't live a sin-free life. I know better but I still fall short in practice. (Thumbs down)
Fair enough. That is a true statement for everyone. However, don't you find it slightly hypocritical to criticize the practices of others when you admit you have shortcomings yourself? Wouldn't your time be better spent focusing on being the best Christian you can be as opposed to worrying about what others are doing? Especially when you admit they're better at it than you.....just under a different umbrella of Christianity?

Where do you draw the line as to what is deemed acceptable? Mother-in-law is OK, but others must change or be held accountable?

Because it's used here frequently to get laughs. Along with many other reported miseries that get laughs. And I've done my share of laughing as well.

I also didn't want tangents to derail the topic. Abortion, divorce, homosexuality are hot button topics that create tangents. Mocking others is pedestrian enough to not rise enough ire in some to go off on a tangent.

We probably started to backslide when we forgot what made us great as a nation and Western Civilization as a whole. It happens gradually over time and it's beginning certainly can't be pinpointed by me. It began before I was born. People either don't care, don't want to know or simply don't see the correlation: our education system has declined exponentially, families are degrading, with the commitment to marriage being nothing more than an inconvenience to be shredded when it gets too tough. And yes, like Peplaw said the killing of babies for convenience sake.I don't know what you personally think of these things, but I know what God thinks of them and as they are accelerating into the main stream of our culture, then yes, immorality is increasing like God said it would.

Our education system has declined compared to what point in time? Haven't the percentages of high school and college graduates continued to rise the 40s? I think they are higher than any other time in US history.

Sure, some things are worse. Many things are better. Nothing is perfect or will ever be perfect. That's human nature as you yourself acknowledged above. We're certainly not on the edge of some moral crevasse.
 

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What do you think my original premise was? As I recall, it was that this thread was humorous and I found certain aspects of it hypocritical and not very Christian. I've primarily been asking questions in this thread and pointing out areas that I find to be hypocritical along the way.

For example, your mother-in-law is a better Christian than you, but you still feel the need to speak out against her beliefs. You believe all of the Bible except for certain parts. Those were two that you've brought up yourself since we've started this discussion.

I've repeated that numerous times. Your premise that it is hypocritical is not correct. We are to point out false teachings. Paul say's to contend for the faith and John say's to send false teachers packing and don't even wish them good luck in their efforts.

My mother in law isn't a bible teacher, leading anyone astray. As a Christian she's not celebrating mass, confessing to a stranger, nor any of the other Catholic habits. She's a generous, stranger helping woman. That is Christianity, not the rituals of Catholicism. I'm not speaking against her beliefs, her beliefs aren't the rituals of Catholicism, but genuine Christianity. Whatever she may call herself culturally and whatever church she'll go to hasn't misled her. God will reach anyone, no matter what path they're on, if he elects to do so. I've met a lot of atheists because of Catholicism and I've met plenty of Catholics who haven't been swayed because of it's un-biblical teachings. She's one who hasn't been.

Here's my general view of the world. I'm a big, big believer in individual freedoms. Freedom of religion, for example. I think people should be free to follow whatever path they choose if it helps bring them the peace they need to be a better person and live a better life. Christian, Mormon, Buddhist, Hindu, Islam, Scientology.....whatever, I really don't care. Who knows which one is right. That is why it is called faith.

However, I've usually seen outrage when these freedoms are attacked. In particular, if I had spent time in this thread condemning or belittling Christianity, no matter how politely I did it, I'm sure the result would have been much, much different.

I've never seen different sects of Christians attack each other like this thread and I found it surprising, amusing and hypocritical.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't get outraged over atheism and mocking. Jesus said if they hate me, they'll hate you. It doesn't bother me and I expect some sort of conflict. I don't care who doesn't believe, I'd rather they do, for their own benefit, because God's existence isn't predicated on who does or doesn't believe in Him, but I'm not outraged over it.

Again pointing out error is far from an attack and far from hypocritical. You're not used to it, because I'm sure you spend much less to no time in church and studying the bible than a Christian. Of course it's odd to you, but it's not hypocritical or wrong, you're just not aware of what a Christian is called to do.


Hey, I'm far from a Bible expert. But, if you believe it all, how can you pick and choose which pieces to follow especially when they are contradictory? Matthew versus Paul's epistles for example? Aren't Paul's epistles the earliest version of pop culture religion?

I mean, aren't different sects of Christianity largely based upon interpretation of the Bible? So, they're "wrong" because they read and interpret things differently than you?

It's not picking and choosing and I do believe it all. In the book of Acts Ch. 10, Peter gets a vision from God, it tells him Levitcal dietary laws are no longer necessary. The dietary laws require a much longer discussion concerning their purpose and meaning, but never the less, Jesus make's it clear they are no longer necessary. Is Peter picking and choosing if he obeys? I mean it does say in Leviticus you're not supposed to eat certain foods.

In John Ch. 8 an adulterous woman is brought before Jesus to be stoned. It's a popular story where He states let him who is without sin throw the first stone. The Levitcal law of stoning was done away with. Is it picking and choosing to no longer stone each other?

These examples and others make it clear that Jesus' coming, death and resurrection provided all the justification for all of mans sins and we are to elevate our spirituality beyond what early man was capable of and no longer deal with sin in the flesh. A perfect example:

'You have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.' -Matthew 5:27-28


He's raising the stakes. It's no longer simply the act that's a sin, but the thought. Deal with the thought and the flesh will follow. You should now be above throwing rocks; you're no longer cavemen, so to speak.


Fair enough. That is a true statement for everyone. However, don't you find it slightly hypocritical to criticize the practices of others when you admit you have shortcomings yourself? Wouldn't your time be better spent focusing on being the best Christian you can be as opposed to worrying about what others are doing? Especially when you admit they're better at it than you.....just under a different umbrella of Christianity?

Where do you draw the line as to what is deemed acceptable? Mother-in-law is OK, but others must change or be held accountable?

I'm not aware of any contradictions between Matthews Gospel and Paul's Epistles. In fact Matthew's is the most Jewish of Gospels and Paul spends a lot of time expounding on the meanings of the Levitical traditions. If Paul's exposition were pop culture he wouldn't have been beheaded. Pop culture means accepted by popular culture. Rome did nothing of the sort, until it became politically expedient 300 years later.

False teachers don't misinterpret the bible, they omit and add. Omit certain truths (while maintaining some), based on their angle and add things to prop up their cause. An example is in Catholicism. No where in the bible are you to pray to Saints. God makes it clear elsewhere you are not to pray to the dead, erect idols of stone and wood and precious metals (see the Vatican) or confess your sins to a stranger. He makes it clear that the Pharisetical system of Priesthood is finished and there is no go-between between you and the Father and a man is not the vicarious Christ, as the title of Vicar suggests.

Part of being a better Christian is not allowing God's name to be cheapened for profit. Not allowing others to be misused and taught in error in the name of God. If you had a kid, would you take kindly to someone teaching them wrong things? God's no different and He expects his other children to be vocal concerning the truth. In Ezekial He makes it clear that the blood of the sinner is held to your account if you don't speak up. If you do and they ignore, it's on them. If you watch silently you're at fault as well. Now God knows we're all sinners, so His stance isn't well 'you're no better, so shut up'. it's 'help yourself by helping others'. Helping others and not allowing someone to be misled is not attacking them, but helping them.


Our education system has declined compared to what point in time? Haven't the percentages of high school and college graduates continued to rise the 40s? I think they are higher than any other time in US history.

Sure, some things are worse. Many things are better. Nothing is perfect or will ever be perfect. That's human nature as you yourself acknowledged above. We're certainly not on the edge of some moral crevasse.

These are just a couple examples and a search can find many more, from any 'leaning' source to give a good overview of America's rankings in education.

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average'

Dumbing Down America: The Decline of Education in the US as Seen From Down Under

Yet, in 2012, the United States was 27th on the list of world rankings for school educational achievement, well below Cuba, below even Mexico and Brazil. Social critics regularly blast American public schools as little more than mind-deadening factories*designed to propel working class white students into brain-dead jobs and minority students straight into the arms of the prison-industrial complex.

Whether or not we're on the edge, I don't say, but that the things Jesus said would come to pass are coming to pass and I have to recognize them. I'm not screaming apocalypse, but the Pope selling a single world currency certainly merits mention.
 

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Reason 103,576 why I stay away from Christianity and all other man made religions:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
 
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