Cythim
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His presence? This is an intangible idea that cannot be proven. If that is your argument then there is no argument to be had.
- Thread starter superpunk
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His presence? This is an intangible idea that cannot be proven. If that is your argument then there is no argument to be had.
Cythim
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Prophecy is a fallacy, there are prophecies that foretold 9/11 but no one deciphered them until after the fact. Prophecy is great at telling us what has already happened, I have yet to see it used to warn of an upcoming event.
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Can you show me tangible proof that there is no God?
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Yeah, sorry 'bout that.
I forgot that you guys love to throw out that nobody can prove there is a God, but hate when asked if you can prove there isn't. Guess only an athiest's faith is acceptable.
Won't happen again. Really. Pinky swear.
I really can't believe you can't understand concepts like Burden of Proof, and Proving a Negative.
Prove fairies don't exist. Prove Unicorns don't exist. Prove that purple-flavored plantains don't exist. There are an infinite number of things that we could all sit around wasting time "proving that they don't exist". But that's not how proof works. The proof must be provided by the person making a claim that a thing does exist.
For instance if I walk up to you and say that I have a baseball card in my pocket, you may ask me to prove it - I will then produce the card and you can examine it.
However, if I walk up to you - claim that I have a baseball card in my pocket, you ask me to prove it, and I turn around and declare that you must prove that I don't have a baseball card in my pocket, you are well within your rights to tell me to fuck off for being an idiot.
This is what you are doing here.
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Now they appear on toast.
skidadl
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Here's part of my perspective on all of this -
Debating, defending and going around and around is not a tool to get those who do not believe to become believers. That never works and is not effective. Matter of fact, it is never what I am trying to do. Nope, it's really more interesting and a little fun more than anything. Debating is a cool thing to pass the time but I don't know if it actually leads to anything productive.
It's funny how I became a believer, which was partly due to my pride and arguing. Way back when I couldn't stand to hear the name Jesus and I was shacked up with my girlfriend this Jehovah's Witness would come by weekly. I let him in because I loved debating with him. I spent 2-3 hours debating with him about how stupid his faith was. So in order to prove how big of an idiot he was I started to read the bible. I completely devoured the new testament in a few weeks and noticed something about it. First, this Jesus guy was different than what I thought. I started noticing that the spiritual principals that He taught made more sense than anything that I was living at the time. I was a pretty miserable person at the time, didn't have any peace and seemed to continue to fail at my addictive behaviors regularly. So, without know it I was looking for answers.
Reading the bible and studying it eventually transformed my life over time. What I know is true is that my life was changed because of it. Now my wife, her mom, several of my family members and the countless people that I have had the opportunity to work with. Say all you want, but I actually SEE the difference on a regular basis. I have been set free from addiction and I know hundreds of others that have experienced the same. I have a measure of peace in my life and see many people living the same. I see the realness of the faith daily and live in the midst of it.
I'm not appealing to anyone who doesn't give a rats ass. To those people I wish you well. It's the people who actually have spiritual needs and want to know more that I am talking to. Crack the bible and see for yourself. I'd say start in the new testament and get a grasp on that first. The Old testament is sure to confuse you until you get a grip on what it's all about. If you are curious about it find out for yourself. Don't listen to a Christian or an atheist when you first get started. Make up your own mind about it and block out what you have heard from either side. You might be surprised with how different it reads when you read it without the influence of others and all of the hate that has been spewed by either side.
Debating, defending and going around and around is not a tool to get those who do not believe to become believers. That never works and is not effective. Matter of fact, it is never what I am trying to do. Nope, it's really more interesting and a little fun more than anything. Debating is a cool thing to pass the time but I don't know if it actually leads to anything productive.
It's funny how I became a believer, which was partly due to my pride and arguing. Way back when I couldn't stand to hear the name Jesus and I was shacked up with my girlfriend this Jehovah's Witness would come by weekly. I let him in because I loved debating with him. I spent 2-3 hours debating with him about how stupid his faith was. So in order to prove how big of an idiot he was I started to read the bible. I completely devoured the new testament in a few weeks and noticed something about it. First, this Jesus guy was different than what I thought. I started noticing that the spiritual principals that He taught made more sense than anything that I was living at the time. I was a pretty miserable person at the time, didn't have any peace and seemed to continue to fail at my addictive behaviors regularly. So, without know it I was looking for answers.
Reading the bible and studying it eventually transformed my life over time. What I know is true is that my life was changed because of it. Now my wife, her mom, several of my family members and the countless people that I have had the opportunity to work with. Say all you want, but I actually SEE the difference on a regular basis. I have been set free from addiction and I know hundreds of others that have experienced the same. I have a measure of peace in my life and see many people living the same. I see the realness of the faith daily and live in the midst of it.
I'm not appealing to anyone who doesn't give a rats ass. To those people I wish you well. It's the people who actually have spiritual needs and want to know more that I am talking to. Crack the bible and see for yourself. I'd say start in the new testament and get a grasp on that first. The Old testament is sure to confuse you until you get a grip on what it's all about. If you are curious about it find out for yourself. Don't listen to a Christian or an atheist when you first get started. Make up your own mind about it and block out what you have heard from either side. You might be surprised with how different it reads when you read it without the influence of others and all of the hate that has been spewed by either side.
Sheik
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Then you must not have watched many plays involving our secondary last year.
HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
skidadl
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lol
Cythim
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Do you require proof that the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, or Santa Clause do not exist as well? I consider myself atheist because I do not believe God exists. If credible evidence were shown I would be a believer but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. It isn't an atheist's faith but a lack there of that is acceptable.
Cythim
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He is talking about the images of Christ
Sheik
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Great post.
I feel the same way about my faith.
I'll be the first to admit I'm not living right 24-7, as far as how I interpret what living according to what Jesus would see as right. If that makes sense.
When I first started going to church and reading the bible, it was a struggle. One thing that always keeps me going back to church(I don't attend regularly right now) is, every message(not exagerrating) that I've heard, every Sunday I've attended, has been spoken to me, and seemed like it was meant for ME. It's always been directed at a certain area of my life where I've been struggling. It's helped me find the words to help others on occasion too.
My Dad actually became a believer a few years after I did. He saw a change in me and wanted to see what it was about.
He got involved with a small church, mostly made up of low income types that have struggled with addiction. People that made a lot of mistakes early in life. In and out of prison. I would often wonder what would draw my Dad to a church like that. I mean, my dad has money, he's never been in trouble, he's the complete opposite of what that church is made up of.
I understand now, and I shit you not, those people are some of the biggest success stories I've ever come across.
I have a lot of questions about faith that I'll probably never get answered. I have a love/hate with church that will probably never be better. But one thing that keeps me on this side of believing is the people that I've seen do a 180 and completely give their life to their faith.
Even if it God and Jesus don't exist, it's not a bad life to strive for, IMO.
And it goes without saying, but I respect where SP,Iamtdg, and everxxx are coming from. They are free to live the way they see fit. It doesn't make them bad people at all. Some of the nicest people I know are going to hell(jk).
Im babbling, typing on an iPhone, so forgive me.