It's about more than just rights

[VTA]

Exactly what lie are you refuting? You say one can't be a Christian because of XYZ, yet there are sins in your own life that you need daily help through. I try to live my life by the words of Jesus. All people sin including you and me. All fall short of the glory of God.

The difference is in how a sin is handled. Is it acknowledged as sin and repented of, or is it propagated as a lifestyle and the caution against it labeled bigotry? The lie is that Jesus in his grace has somehow turned loose all behavior he'd counseled against and therefore man is his own barometer for what is acceptable and what is not in the eyes of Christ. It positions man as the authority in place of God.

I'm glad you've come around to quote Paul. Now move forward to Chapter 6 of the same book and read what it say's about continuing in sin. God forbid.

 

[2233boys]

You must have no sin in your life. You seem very comfortable and almost self righteous in condemning others.


You still haven't answered my question about the lie. From your point of view I can only assume that you feel Jesus would condone your opinions on Christian homosexuals and be right there with you condemning them. That isn't the Jesus I know and I don't believe that for a second.

 

[jnday]

Exactly what lie are you refuting? You say one can't be a Christian because of XYZ, yet there are sins in your own life that you need daily help through. I try to live my life by the words of Jesus. All people sin including you and me. All fall short of the glory of God.

Do you think God forgives sin that is repeated time and time again with the person intending to repeat it when they are asking to be forgiven? If you choose to sin by living in a preplanned sinfull lifestyle, will God forgive you? It is saying that you are defying God's word and you intend to continue to defy his word, but expect forgiveness. I think God forgives sin when a person is really sorry. If a person knowingly continues to commit the same sin, I don't think they have any regret for the sin. What's your opinion?

 

[jnday]

You must have no sin in your life. You seem very comfortable and almost self righteous in condemning others.


You still haven't answered my question about the lie. From your point of view I can only assume that you feel Jesus would condone your opinions on Christian homosexuals and be right there with you condemning them. That isn't the Jesus I know and I don't believe that for a second.

Is it really condemning the person or is it recognizing sinfull behaviour? Hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

[VTA]

You must have no sin in your life. You seem very comfortable and almost self righteous in condemning others.

You mean despite admitting I'm no position to condemn anybody, but am admonished, doctrinally to point out errors in doctrine, where Christianity is concerned? Maybe you should re-read what I write, compare it against scripture (and your personal feelings concerning me) and see if it jibes.

You still haven't answered my question about the lie. From your point of view I can only assume that you feel Jesus would condone your opinions on Christian homosexuals and be right there with you condemning them. That isn't the Jesus I know and I don't believe that for a second.

Yes I did. Apparently you did not like the answer. Jesus didn't admonish people to continue on in sin and further, call it a lifestyle to celebrate. Neither did he call on the sinner, when reproved with accurate scriptural basis to become confrontational and distort his word for their convenience. If the Jesus you know calls on people to do such things, you should be worried. You might not know Jesus, through a self imposed selective view.

 

[2233boys]

"Judge not lest you be judged" (Matthew 7:1).

"Do not take the speck of sawdust from your brother's eye until you have removed the plank from your own" (Matthew 7:3).

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 6:44)

"Let the one without sin among you cast the first stone" (John 8:7).

"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31). (One of what Jesus claimed to be the two greatest commandments)

"I was naked and you clothed me, hungry and you gave me to eat... Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of these the least my brethren, you have done it onto me" (Matthew 25).

"For God so loved the world he gave his only son the whoever believed in him should have ever lasting life" (John 3:16)

"For God did not send his son to condemn the world , but to save the world through him." (John 3:17)

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned." (John 5:24)

"I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry and he who believes in me will never go thirsty." (John 6:35)

"For my Fathers will is that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life and I will raise them up on the last day." (John 6:40)

 

[MetalHead]

"Judge not lest you be judged" (Matthew 7:1).

"Do not take the speck of sawdust from your brother's eye until you have removed the plank from your own" (Matthew 7:3).

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 6:44)

"Let the one without sin among you cast the first stone" (John 8:7).

"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31). (One of what Jesus claimed to be the two greatest commandments)

"I was naked and you clothed me, hungry and you gave me to eat... Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of these the least my brethren, you have done it onto me" (Matthew 25).

"For God so loved the world he gave his only son the whoever believed in him should have ever lasting life" (John 3:16)

"For God did not send his son to condemn the world , but to save the world through him." (John 3:17)

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned." (John 5:24)

"I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry and he who believes in me will never go thirsty." (John 6:35)

"For my Fathers will is that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life and I will raise them up on the last day." (John 6:40)

All those passages are fine and dandy,but you need context.
They are just quotes from greater lessons.

 

[VTA]

Does love consist of allowing someone to do something detrimental to their own health, spiritual and physical? What one man does in his room has no effect on me, but I'd be nothing like compassionate if I didn't at the very least warn him of the dangers.

God abandons homosexuals to their own devices. - Romans 1:18-25

You're not really supporting anyone when you don't afford them an entirely true picture of what God's will is. In fact you're doing the opposite and making yourself a stumbling block.

What's amazing and entirely validating of scriptural prophecy is that people will actually argue on the side of what is not merely a sin, but a condemnation from God on a Godless society. And professing Christians don't even recognize it.

 

[VTA]

Seriously, this should scare the hell out of any professing Christian who wants to support any such notions that God has changed his mind about sin and its consequences.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. - ROMANS CH 1:18-25

 

[Jon88]

I'm out of here...

 

[jnday]

I'm out of here...

It's getting hot in here.

 

[2233boys]

All those passages are fine and dandy,but you need context.
They are just quotes from greater lessons.

The context is in the passage. If you want to see your condemnation or judgement of others justified you'll see it.

 

[2233boys]

Does love consist of allowing someone to do something detrimental to their own health, spiritual and physical? What one man does in his room has no effect on me, but I'd be nothing like compassionate if I didn't at the very least warn him of the dangers.

God abandons homosexuals to their own devices. - Romans 1:18-25

You're not really supporting anyone when you don't afford them an entirely true picture of what God's will is. In fact you're doing the opposite and making yourself a stumbling block.

What's amazing and entirely validating of scriptural prophecy is that people will actually argue on the side of what is not merely a sin, but a condemnation from God on a Godless society. And professing Christians don't even recognize it.

Read Chapter 2:1

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things.

As an aside even early Biblical scholars had differences of opinion on that whole chapter and the meaning. One said of verse 26 that it wasn't about women being lesbians but women having anal sex. The bottom line if they couldn't agree we aren't going to agree. I think a Homosexual person can be a good Christian, you don't.

 

[2233boys]

Seriously, this should scare the hell out of any professing Christian who wants to support any such notions that God has changed his mind about sin and its consequences.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. - ROMANS CH 1:18-25

That whole passage was trying to tell the Christian Jews and the Gentile Jews that neither were better than the other.
From James Allison Catholic Priest

It appears to be written to two groups of Christians who constituted the Church at Rome – the group of Jewish believers in Christ, and the group of Gentile believers in Christ. There appear to have been some problems with rivalry between these two groups, with the Jewish Christians thinking themselves superior to the Baptized Gentiles, and the Gentiles thinking themselves superior to the Baptized Jews. Paul first of all speaks to the Jewish Christians explaining to them that even though all the treasures of revelation had come through the Jewish people, they are in fact not superior to the gentiles, but in just the same need as the Gentiles of the redemption which has been effected by Jesus. Then he turns to the Gentiles to explain to them how they are not superior to the Jews by never having had the Law, but are likewise dependent on Christ's redemption. The point of this is to bring out that all humans are dependent on Christ's salvation: all have sinned, and all need grace, without exception. As far as I am aware this basic framework for the reading of the Epistle to the Romans is pacifically accepted by the majority of scholars of all stripes. Nothing particularly controversial here

 

[VTA]

Read Chapter 2:1

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things.

This is correct. We're not to condemn each other, we are you support each other in truth and not allow strange doctrines to enter in and stumble people. He's talking expressly in the church, as he stated to the Corinthians, that God judges the world, but within the church we must 'judge' one another. Trying each other and inspecting the fruits borne.

It's far from fair or even correct to state someone is stepping in the place of God by pointing out wrong action. Is a parent who teaches the child that no matter how cool Hollywood portrays heroine addicts, it's still an awful, self degrading thing to do, a judgmental bigot? Is a prostitute simply expressing her self? Would her parent be accused of not loving her, because he wishes she'd understand just how bad it is?

As an aside even early Biblical scholars had differences of opinion on that whole chapter and the meaning. One said of verse 26 that it wasn't about women being lesbians but women having anal sex. The bottom line if they couldn't agree we aren't going to agree. I think a Homosexual person can be a good Christian, you don't.

Sort of semantic; if he's condemning hetero-anal sex instead of lesbianism, then let's be assured homosexual anal sex is off limits. You're not walking in Christ if you insist on doing something strictly charged against. He brought down judgment numerous times in times past for the behavior. Does it seem logical that the very one who stated he remains and does not change suddenly had a change of heart concerning one of the deepest of sins? The very sin in Ezekial he brought against his own chosen people and finally brought judgment on?

 

[VTA]

That whole passage was trying to tell the Christian Jews and the Gentile Jews that neither were better than the other.
From James Allison Catholic Priest

That entire passage is to show every man that he is fallen and sinful and needs Christ. He breaks down the very sequence of events, from giving them over to the lusts of their hearts to impurity and the dishonoring of their bodies (which is supposed to be the temple of the spirit) to the final judgment of abandoning them all together. I'm not sure where in biblical doctrine you can find any sort of evidence that God tolerates a continuance of a sinful lifestyle. He's patient with mans struggle, but the celebratory flaunting and then worse, twisting of doctrinal truths is pretty much the end of the line.

Jesus states that in the day's of his coming, 'as it was in the days of Noe (Noah), so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be'.

Exactly what is he talking about if not sweeping away Christ rejectors in judgment for their choice to ignore his commandments and admonitions? If the liberal, love all, hanging with sinners Christ is the model people want to propagate, exactly who will be among the tares who are cast into the furnace? He does make a distinction; he certainly loves all of us and died for all of us, but if any of us think we can say 'hey thanks big guy' and go follow our own lusts, we're sorely mistaken. Especially if we've degraded to the point where defending the most egregious of sins.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. - Jude 7

 

[superpunk]

Judgmental Christians are the BEST. They're like walking, talking billboards for atheism.

 

[VTA]

I'll bet they are. Though not as good as confused athiests, they go a long way towards undermining their own causes.

 

[jnday]

Judgmental Christians are the BEST. They're like walking, talking billboards for atheism.

Bless your heart, you are gonna burn, burn, burn or not. I don't want you to think that I am trying to judge you.

 

[Angrymesscan]

I'm not a "religion practicing person" so I googled "Romans 1:18-25", but a lot of (I guess) different versions came up (King James, New International, ESV...), which one should I read?