VTA

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This is BS.

Nothing wrong with what Asante says, and he's perfectly clear in his stance.

But because he isn't openly embracing and calling Collins a hero, he gets grilled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQFR8Nqsbq8

Don't you love how the onus is put on society at large? What is openly gay and why must anyone be prepared?

If they are our equals, deserving the same respect as any other human, doing no thing different, what's the problem? I know the implication, I just can't believe how many fools will down and simpy accept it.
 

jnday

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This is BS.

Nothing wrong with what Asante says, and he's perfectly clear in his stance.

But because he isn't openly embracing and calling Collins a hero, he gets grilled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQFR8Nqsbq8

This video has caused me to gain respect for Samuel. I share his opinion on the issue and I admire him for not following the PC crowd like a sheep. He said nothing disrespectfull and he expressed his views well. I don't give a damn what label I gain for standing up for a moral issue such as this. I don't hate gays. I just find their behaviour to be sickening and wrong. I don't think gays should be mistreated, but they damn sure shouldn't be praised for msking their sex lives public. Terms like brave, hero and role model shouldn't ever be applied to these people.
 

Hoofbite

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That reads kind of wierd. They shouldn't let him define his view of Chrsitianity? Why not? It is doctrinally correct and if it weren't, he'd still be within his right to express his view on it. Did Collins claim to be a Christian?

I dunno. I'm assuming he did or else that's a hell of a weird statement to make.

I guess he did. Found a link on it.

I'm from a close-knit family. My parents instilled Christian values in me. They taught Sunday school, and I enjoyed lending a hand. I take the teachings of Jesus seriously, particularly the ones that touch on tolerance and understanding.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/#ixzz2SHfrxGNT

I said they shouldn't let him go on there and tell people whether or not they are Christian. Define what you believe all you want but it's not his place to say who's good or who's bad. Say some Christian hetero couple who's been in a committed relationship for years and have every intent on being married but just haven't yet are watching this show. These folks automatically bad Christians? Or does it only become bad if it's broadcasted "openly". That's why I asked about the emphasis on "openly".

  • Closet Gay/Premarital Heterosexual Sex: Good Christian?
  • Openly Gay/Premarital Heterosexual Sex: Bad Christian?
  • Shit, what about people who identify as gay but haven't even had sex yet?
  • Could an openly gay yet celibate couple call themselves good Christians?

The reality is, not everyone buys into the same flavor of the same religion. I don't suppose you and the Westboro Baptist share much in common (At least I hope not). Why not? I bet they could cite a plethora of Bible verses to back their actions.

Different branches, different groups and different beliefs all promoting different messages in the name of the same God. Of course they're all right, just ask them. ESPN shouldn't be in the business of telling people who's good or bad. It's not their call and it's not this guy's call. That's the only issue I had with it. Otherwise, I don't care if he's on there voicing his opinion. Voice away.

Ultimately that petition will likely go nowhere. Probably not going to get the signatures need. Less than 300 currently.

But, luckily there's a Christian group out there that knows how to rally the troops.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/christian-group-calls-espn-writers-suspension-jason-collins-213013743.html

Less than 1000 from their goal of 25,000.

Damn, what about these people? Can't all be gay. I'd imagine at least a few are married. Regular church-going type folk no doubt. They bad?

He's focusing on the openess because of the infuence it will have on others.

What influence? Over whom and pertaining to what?

It's no surprise people who claim to be Christian do not read the bible and an unlearned Christian will have a distorted view of what Christianity is. Jesus had some harsh words for people who knowingly distort his message.

Not sure where this came from.

You can't continue to be any kind of flagrant sinner, let alone a homosexual and rightly call yourself Christian. God hasn't changed his mind. You, generally speaking, are free to be whatever you want, but if you're flaunting how you have sex as a lifestyle, you are not in any way shape or form a Christian.

That's your position.
 

VTA

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It shouldn't be a matter of allowances, when freedom of speech is involved. People state a lot of things about others all over the 'news', shit shows, etc and no one speaks of allowances. Whether it's calling a politician a liar, an activist a phony, whatever,

The source of Christianity is Christ, Christ's precepts and admonitions are what define Christianity. And by the definition of Christianity, Broussard is correct. Claiming to be a Christian while walking against those precepts make you a non-Christian. It makes one disobedient to Christ's commandments.

There aren't flavors, there are truths and then there are long propagated misconceptions. So long in fact that they are taken as truths for their endurance. They serve wonderfully to denigrate the faith (ala Westboro) and to do just what Jesus talked about, when referring to stumbling Christians with strange doctrines.

I can't claim to be a Jew and ignore what makes a Jew a Jew and simply call it flavor. Judaism is specific and Christianity is no different as I know Islam and Hinduism are alike in that sense.

The idea that the same God who said 'strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life' promotes a convenient pick and choose doctrine is entirely unbiblical and not Christian. It's a man-made idea to portray Gods will falsely. The same God who said I am the way, the truth and the life', 'no man comes to the Father but by me', was talking about Christianity. Not a man made ideology, malleable to notions of cultural changes over time.

◦ Closet Gay/Premarital Heterosexual Sex: Good Christian? Nope.
◦ Openly Gay/Premarital Heterosexual Sex: Bad Christian? Not Christian.
◦ Shit, what about people who identify as gay but haven't even had sex yet? Still needing to seek Christ
◦ Could an openly gay yet celibate couple call themselves good Christians? No.

No one who honestly pursues God and studies his word can call themselves good. Even those who refrain from sin, based on their own moral efforts. It becomes evidently clear that Jesus didn't die in vain, but because we cannot refrain from sin.

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What influence? Over whom and pertaining to what?
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The influence of a public figure falsely calling himself a Christian, while living a homosexual lifestyle. Pertaining to naive people who think Christianity is defined by men on television.

Does it sound reasonable that Jesus counseled that simply looking at a woman with lust in your heart is adultery, but added a silent caveat that sodomy is a-ok? That he has change his mind over the millennia since Sodom, Assyria, Canaan, and Israel itself?

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Not sure where this came from.
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My comment came in response to someone falsely claiming to be a Christian.

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That's your position.
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And none of this is my position. It's God's position, based, again, on defining Christianity from it's source. I don't define Christianity, I just seek to be one and to become closer to God through Christ.

I'm assuming you are a non-believer and don't think scripture would matter, but if you're going to debate God and Christianity at some point Satan has to be mentioned. If you have any questions as to why flavors or counterfeits would arise - after all, you can't counterfeit something that doesn't exist, you need look no further than him. He's not red, with appointed tail, proclaiming evil. He's pretending to be a victim, a friend and an angel of light.

I can point everything out scripturally point by point. I hope I'm not coming across as contentious. I'll answer any question asked and have no reservations or reason to be defensive over it.
 
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Hoofbite

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I'm not interested in arguing against your ideology.

My point wasn't to argue against your position specifically but just to point out that even within Christianity there are discrepancies between the beliefs that people hold. Interpretations differ as do the practices and even the inclusion of which texts has been an area of contention.

That's why I included the link to Christians who have their own petition.

It has nothing to do with free speech. Sure, he can say it all he wants because he has the freedom of speech. More power to him. More power to the Westboro Baptist or atheists who shelter their bullshit behind the curtain of protection that the 1st Amendment provides. That doesn't make him saying it just and shouldn't mean that someone who is offended can't justifiably call him or any of the others assholes.

It's more along the lines of perspective and humility. You (Broussard) identify as Christian and belong to a major religion comprised of a multitude of denominations. You are not the bouncer at the door determining who gets admittance or not. You do realize that perhaps someone had similar beliefs about you at one time or another based on something they saw you did at some point along the way? Being a Christian doesn't grant you the ability to revoke someone else's membership card simply because there are differences in beliefs. If it did, nobody would have a card because the continuous accusatory cycle of finger pointing would have had all the cards yanked a long ass time ago.
 

VTA

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I'm not interested in arguing against your ideology.

My point wasn't to argue against your position specifically but just to point out that even within Christianity there are discrepancies between the beliefs that people hold. Interpretations differ as do the practices and even the inclusion of which texts has been an area of contention.

That's why I included the link to Christians who have their own petition.

It has nothing to do with free speech. Sure, he can say it all he wants because he has the freedom of speech. More power to him. More power to the Westboro Baptist or atheists who shelter their bullshit behind the curtain of protection that the 1st Amendment provides. That doesn't make him saying it just and shouldn't mean that someone who is offended can't justifiably call him or any of the others assholes.

It's more along the lines of perspective and humility. You (Broussard) identify as Christian and belong to a major religion comprised of a multitude of denominations. You are not the bouncer at the door determining who gets admittance or not. You do realize that perhaps someone had similar beliefs about you at one time or another based on something they saw you did at some point along the way? Being a Christian doesn't grant you the ability to revoke someone else's membership card simply because there are differences in beliefs. If it did, nobody would have a card because the continuous accusatory cycle of finger pointing would have had all the cards yanked a long ass time ago.

You sort of are arguing against my ideology. Christianity isn't a color, or something baed on taste and how it is presented is of importance for a number of reasons. Christianity itself demands that a Christian contends for the faith and makes sure God's name is not abused in the manner of people wrongly associating it with certain lifestyles. Not hellfire and brimstone finger pointing, but definitely in voicing your opposition to such things.

It's not trying to be the bouncer its about being the voice of truth among people who are being dishonest. The entire line of prophets were men who spoke against the popular notions and wrong headed ideals of their times, among other things. No way I think I'm a prophet, but I am to take their example and learn from it. God explicitly said, without opening your mouth ageist these things, guilt will be charged to your soul. If you know better, it's your duty to speak up.

The problem is, and very well played, is that doing so has been unfairly married to being a judgmental lunatic. The stereotypical pulpit pounder, screaming hellfire to all rejects has become the face of Christianity and anyone declaring God's truth is colored with that brush. The better to ignore the word of God…

Jesus himself called satan the prince of this world. He knows just how subtle satan is and we should too.
 

ThoughtExperiment

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This whole thing has a McCarthyism feel to it.

You're only allowed to have one reaction to this news: gushingly positive. Anything short of that and you're a hater or bigot.

No doubt. That's definitely the attitude now, that we've decided how you are to think on this topic, and if you don't agree with us 100% -- not 90% or 95%, but 100% -- you're an evil, backwards, terrible person.

I don't even participate in these debates, but I've observed firsthand on message boards where a popular poster who questioned even a tiny bit of this celebration of being gay was basically attacked and ostracized by everyone.

It almost reminds me of CZ where someone says their cousin has a cold and everyone tries to one-up everyone else on the sympathy and prayers scale. It's so weird.
 

jnday

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No doubt. That's definitely the attitude now, that we've decided how you are to think on this topic, and if you don't agree with us 100% -- not 90% or 95%, but 100% -- you're an evil, backwards, terrible person.

I don't even participate in these debates, but I've observed firsthand on message boards where a popular poster who questioned even a tiny bit of this celebration of being gay was basically attacked and ostracized by everyone.

It almost reminds me of CZ where someone says their cousin has a cold and everyone tries to one-up everyone else on the sympathy and prayers scale. It's so weird.

When Anderson Cooper came out, I disagreed with Abebeta about Cooper being some kind of
brave hero and the whole damn bunch of Zoners jumped on me with both feet. They love the fags.
 
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That reads kind of wierd. They shouldn't let him define his view of Chrsitianity? Why not? It is doctrinally correct and if it weren't, he'd still be within his right to express his view on it. Did Collins claim to be a Christian?

He's focusing on the openess because of the infuence it will have on others. It's no surprise people who claim to be Christian do not read the bible and an unlearned Christian will have a distorted view of what Christianity is. Jesus had some harsh words for people who knowingly distort his message.

You can't continue to be any kind of flagrant sinner, let alone a homosexual and rightly call yourself Christian. God hasn't changed his mind. You, generally speaking, are free to be whatever you want, but if you're flaunting how you have sex as a lifestyle, you are not in any way shape or form a Christian.

That isn't really your right to decide. Matthew 7: 1-3
 

Jon88

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This is BS.

Nothing wrong with what Asante says, and he's perfectly clear in his stance.

But because he isn't openly embracing and calling Collins a hero, he gets grilled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQFR8Nqsbq8

That's why I despise Sportcenter and ESPN. They're always trying to cram their liberal views down your throat with their liberal douchebag anchors.

And they do need to replace that ****.
 
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superpunk

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Pretty sure there's only one requirement for being a Christian, and being gay doesn't affect that one way or the other. I'm sure jesis doesn't appreciate his followers selectively administering his grace
 

VTA

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You should read it and discover what Jesus appreciates and more importantly, what he doesn't.
 

VTA

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That isn't really your right to decide. Matthew 7: 1-3

This is the most misunderstood, often quoted verse in the bible. He's talking about condemnation of the soul, not discerning a persons true intent and avoiding them. Pointing out an error in doctrine is not condemning anybody.

Continue on in Chapter 7 and you'll see where it fits in. Go read it, and what it say's about false prophets and discerning of fruits.

Then go on to read 1 Corinthians 5:1-13. Then read the second epistle of John...
 

MetalHead

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This is the most misunderstood, often quoted verse in the bible. He's talking about condemnation of the soul, not discerning a persons true intent and avoiding them. Pointing out an error in doctrine is not condemning anybody.

Continue on in Chapter 7 and you'll see where it fits in. Go read it, and what it say's about false prophets and discerning of fruits.

Then go on to read 1 Corinthians 5:1-13. Then read the second epistle of John...
Go easy on him,VTA.
 
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This is the most misunderstood, often quoted verse in the bible. He's talking about condemnation of the soul, not discerning a persons true intent and avoiding them. Pointing out an error in doctrine is not condemning anybody.

Continue on in Chapter 7 and you'll see where it fits in. Go read it, and what it say's about false prophets and discerning of fruits.

Then go on to read 1 Corinthians 5:1-13. Then read the second epistle of John...
Jesus own words vs Paul's words I'll take Jesus words. The meaning behind the verse is exactly what it says, in fact Jesus says it on more than one occasion. You are in no place to decide whether a person is Christian or not.
 

VTA

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Jesus own words vs Paul's words I'll take Jesus words. The meaning behind the verse is exactly what it says, in fact Jesus says it on more than one occasion. You are in no place to decide whether a person is Christian or not.

Paul was given the word from Jesus and is the greatest expositor of the Gospel. And they are Jesus' words in the rest of Matthew and in Mark where he admonishes the same things, concerning judging a person by their fruits. It is spoken of for a reason.

I'm in no position to condemn anyone, but I am admonished to voice the truth in the place of a lie. Go study the bible, the entire bible and don't get caught up in worrying if it in part offends the world. friendship of the world is enmity with God, ye adulterers and adulteresses. -James 4:4
 

jnday

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Pretty sure there's only one requirement for being a Christian, and being gay doesn't affect that one way or the other. I'm sure jesis doesn't appreciate his followers selectively administering his grace

A true Christian knows that gay behaviour is a sin. God forgives sin, but that is not a free pass to continue the same behaviour and expect to be forgiven. I am not the one that will judge these gay Christians that you speak of. I find the term "gay Christian" to be an oxymoron. God will sort it all out. I don't find nothing wrong with identifying a sin and pointing out that it is wrong. That is not a judgement of the sinner, only recognizing the sin.
 
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Exactly what lie are you refuting? You say one can't be a Christian because of XYZ, yet there are sins in your own life that you need daily help through. I try to live my life by the words of Jesus. All people sin including you and me. All fall short of the glory of God.
 
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A true Christian knows that gay behaviour is a sin. God forgives sin, but that is not a free pass to continue the same behaviour and expect to be forgiven. I am not the one that will judge these gay Christians that you speak of. I find the term "gay Christian" to be an oxymoron. God will sort it all out. I don't find nothing wrong with identifying a sin and pointing out that it is wrong. That is not a judgement of the sinner, only recognizing the sin.
Sigh
 
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