Donovan McNabb promises "a special season in 2011"

[Rock Slamdance]

Who cares if its a run heavy or pass heavy era if they had about the same length of careers and have about the same amount of attemps? They had the same amount of chances to put up numbers in that case. Aikman, Fouts, Jim Kelly, McNabb.. all have around 5,000 attemps for their career.

Yeah, and rule changes that make it easier for the offense to pass the ball. Far more physically gifted wide receivers. The advent of complex passing offenses that make the stuff form the 80's and 90's look archaic.

 

[Rock Slamdance]

McNabb should be considered for the HOF. He had a career much better than the average Cowboys fan would give him credit for.

But he's certainly not a good QB anymore. Once he lost his wheels he was forever done as a top flight QB. As a pure passer, he's been mediocre at best. And this was in a QB friendly offense his entire career.

Most people recognize he had a good career. But its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yeah, and rule changes that make it easier for the offense to pass the ball. Far more physically gifted wide receivers. The advent of complex passing offenses that make the stuff form the 80's and 90's look archaic.

Look, passing in the 90's and passing today isn't that different to be completely honest. Its not like they've made hundreds of rule changes since then, and the few they have made have been minor. Its really not a compelling argument. Players on both sides of the ball are bigger, faster, and stronger every year. Cornerbacks and Safeties included.. not just WR's. Works both ways.

And i wouldn't call all the James Thrash's and Todd Pinkstons and Freddie Mitchells of the world "superior gifted athletes". McNabb has had crap at the WR spot for most of his career.

 

[sbk92]

Most people recognize he had a good career. But its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good.

I probably would vote no.

But then I think about a guy like Warren Moon in the HOF.

Who would I want as my QB in their prime? Give me McNabb.

 

[sbk92]

McNabb has had shat WRs for most of his career. A bunch of #2s at best. Then Owens arrived and they dominated for that year. Jackson and Maclin were added in McNabb's final years.

On the flip side of the argument, McNabb enjoyed his success while the rest of the division was down. There was no real competition. They started off the season with 5 or 6 wins.

 

[Bonecrusher#31]

I probably would vote no.

But then I think about a guy like Warren Moon in the HOF.

Who would I want as my QB in their prime? Give me McNabb.

Moon was a pure passer like Marino, a classic QB.

I'd take Moon over McNabb everyday.

 

[Sheik]

Moon was a pure passer like Marino, a classic QB.

I'd take Moon over McNabb everyday.

You and me both.

I loved Warren Moon. Awesome pure passer.

 

[Cythim]

McNabb should be considered for the HOF. He had a career much better than the average Cowboys fan would give him credit for.

But he's certainly not a good QB anymore. Once he lost his wheels he was forever done as a top flight QB. As a pure passer, he's been mediocre at best. And this was in a QB friendly offense his entire career.

I agree that he had a very good career in Philly, but it is easy to hate on a guy when fans of his own team hate him as well. I would easily take him over everything we had between Aikman and Romo. I don't think he is HoF worthy when comparing him to this generation of QB. Manning, Brady, and Warner will be in there. Brees is on the fringe and a few others could get in if they finish their careers well. McNabb will get in because of who he is and what he is. I would call him a top 10 QB of his era, but not top 5.

 

[Cythim]

Who cares if its a run heavy or pass heavy era if they had about the same length of careers and have about the same amount of attemps? They had the same amount of chances to put up numbers in that case. Aikman, Fouts, Jim Kelly, McNabb.. all have around 5,000 attemps for their career.

The guys you are naming ended their careers at least 10 years ago. Do you know how many times the greatest QBs in the HoF passed for more than 4000 yards? Montana, Aikman, and Kelly never did it. Elway did it once. Young did it twice. Moon did it 4 times. Marino, often considered one of the best, could only do it 5 times.

Compare that to QB's from today where at least five guys are doing it every season, including the likes of Jon Kitna. Comparing passing stats across eras is extremely short-sighted.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

The guys you are naming ended their careers at least 10 years ago. Do you know how many times the greatest QBs in the HoF passed for more than 4000 yards? Montana, Aikman, and Kelly never did it. Elway did it once. Young did it twice. Moon did it 4 times. Marino, often considered one of the best, could only do it 5 times.

Compare that to QB's from today where at least five guys are doing it every season, including the likes of Jon Kitna. Comparing passing stats across eras is extremely short-sighted.

Amazing how much football changed from 1999 to 2006.

Couldn't be the number of pass attempts has gone up. Nah..

 

[Cythim]

Amazing how much football changed from 1999 to 2006.

Your narrow-mindedness is baffling. It isn't about one year, but decades of football. The passing game in the '90s is completely different from the passing game in the '00s.

Couldn't be the number of pass attempts has gone up. Nah..

That is one of several aspects. QBs are also completing a higher percent of passes at an increased yards per basis. McNabb throws as often as the best QB's in the '90s, which is average for QB's today. His completion rating is also on par with some of the best from the '90s but once again is average today.

Your attempt at a witty response has backfired.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Your narrow-mindedness is baffling. It isn't about one year, but decades of football. The passing game in the '90s is completely different from the passing game in the '00s.



That is one of several aspects. QBs are also completing a higher percent of passes at an increased yards per basis. McNabb throws as often as the best QB's in the '90s, which is average for QB's today. His completion rating is also on par with some of the best from the '90s but once again is average today.

Your attempt at a witty response has backfired.

Please enlighten me as to how passing the football dramatically changed from 1999 to 2000.

PS- The comment about 1999 to 2006 was a sarcastic exaggeration to mock the fact that you feel passing the football in the NFL changed so dramatically in 5 or 10 years. Same as the remark above.

Now, on to your explination of this dramatic change in how the NFL passing game works.

 

[Cythim]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...t-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html

The Golden Age (2004-present)
As if quarterbacks hadn’t been coddled enough by coaches and rulemakers over the past two decades, one profound game, and one very angry team executive, made their lives even easier in 2004.

One, New England defenders pushed the bounds of pass interference rules in the 2003 AFC championship game, badly roughing up Indianapolis receivers and shutting down the Colts high-powered offense in a 24-14 Patriots victory.

Two, Indy’s powerful president, Bill Polian, complained to the league rather loudly in the wake of his team's loss.
As a result, the NFL determined that its officials would “re-emphasize” pass interference rules in 2004 and beyond. Though not officially a rule change, the impact on the passing game was profound.

The very next season, Indy quarterback Peyton Manning (pictured here) went out and rewrote the record books, with 49 TD passes and a 121.1 passer rating that was nearly 10 points better than any that had come before it. The league-wide passer rating, meanwhile, jumped from 78.3 in 2003 to a record 82.8 in 2004.

The records have remained under assault since then: Tom Brady broke Manning’s TD-toss record with 50 in 2007, while posting the second-highest passer rating in history (117.2). With less fanfare, Drew Brees set a record with 440 completions in 2007. And, as noted above, NFL quarterbacks are poised to rewrite the record books in countless categories here in 2008, while newcomers have bucked tradition by easily performing at high level.

But today's high-flying newcomers and record-setting veterans aren't better quarterbacks than players of the past. They just have advantages their predecessors never enjoyed back before the Golden Age of the passing game.

 

[Cythim]

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/6/4/1499021/passers-paradise-the-evolution-of

This article goes a little deeper.

 

[Midswat]

Cythim effectively just ended this very one-sided debate.

Well done.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The reason McNabb's low INT rate has been so significant is that he's played most of his career in the WCO which emphasizes a lot of high percentage throws.

 

[Rock Slamdance]

Cythim, great job.

:Clap

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Cythim effectively just ended this very one-sided debate.

Well done.

lol

One sided to those who are biased. To everyone else, McNabb will clearly be talked about for Hall consideration, and with his stats and accomplishments will most likely be in.

McNabb played 4 years before this supposed "Golden Age" btw, which is termed by "cold hard football facts" (a very reputable source)

 

[RoyTheHammer]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...t-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html

The Golden Age (2004-present)
As if quarterbacks hadn’t been coddled enough by coaches and rulemakers over the past two decades, one profound game, and one very angry team executive, made their lives even easier in 2004.

One, New England defenders pushed the bounds of pass interference rules in the 2003 AFC championship game, badly roughing up Indianapolis receivers and shutting down the Colts high-powered offense in a 24-14 Patriots victory.

Two, Indy’s powerful president, Bill Polian, complained to the league rather loudly in the wake of his team's loss.
As a result, the NFL determined that its officials would “re-emphasize” pass interference rules in 2004 and beyond. Though not officially a rule change, the impact on the passing game was profound.

The very next season, Indy quarterback Peyton Manning (pictured here) went out and rewrote the record books, with 49 TD passes and a 121.1 passer rating that was nearly 10 points better than any that had come before it. The league-wide passer rating, meanwhile, jumped from 78.3 in 2003 to a record 82.8 in 2004.

The records have remained under assault since then: Tom Brady broke Manning’s TD-toss record with 50 in 2007, while posting the second-highest passer rating in history (117.2). With less fanfare, Drew Brees set a record with 440 completions in 2007. And, as noted above, NFL quarterbacks are poised to rewrite the record books in countless categories here in 2008, while newcomers have bucked tradition by easily performing at high level.

But today's high-flying newcomers and record-setting veterans aren't better quarterbacks than players of the past. They just have advantages their predecessors never enjoyed back before the Golden Age of the passing game.

Couldn't just be because Manning and Brady are two of the best QB's of all time could it?

Nah.. it was all because of a change in pass interference calls. You're actually getting sheep to buy into this theory too. Unreal.

Brees set a record in completions? Look how many passes he attempted! Compare that to passes attempted by other Hall QB's season to season. Lord, its like no one pays attention to the details.

 

[sbk92]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge defenders can't defend like they used to.

Guess not.

He'll find this out after he's the last person in the world to know who the Eagles' lead receiver is.