DeMarco Murray in uni....

[Cythim]

We just went over this.. guys who averaged over 5 yards per touch with over 200 touches were Chris Johnson, MJD, AP, Foster, Forte, Charles, Felix, McCoy, and Blount.. aka the best backs in the league last year.

If you don't think this is elite company you clearly arn't being objective.

Yes, everyone over that mark blah blah blah. That is an arbitrary mark you came up with to support your claim. Lets move the mark up to 250 touches and 5.5 ypt and see how many pass and how many miss the cut. I am better it is something like 7 make and 4 miss with Felix landing under the bar for both numbers.


Hey, how many QBs have a 90+ QBR with at least 470 attempts? Gosh, Josh Freeman sure is elite!

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yes, everyone over that mark blah blah blah. That is an arbitrary mark you came up with to support your claim. Lets move the mark up to 250 touches and 5.5 ypt and see how many pass and how many miss the cut. I am better it is something like 7 make and 4 miss with Felix landing under the bar for both numbers.

Well there are only 9 guys here to begin with so already i'd say you should bone up on your math skills. If you did set the bar at 250 touches and 5.5 yards per touch i think you'd have 3, maybe 4 guys who did that this past season. The best of the best. That wouldn't mean that Felix wasn't still right up there with the best in the league in terms of yardage per touch. Every one of those guys he's up there with is a very very good RB.

 

[Cythim]

The only reason he appears to be good is because of his receiving threat. On the rushing RPA list there are 18 players who surpassed him and two more who equaled his total while carrying the ball more. For receiving threats out of the backfield he ranks 8th in YPC (only including those with 30+ recs).

He is a mid-range RB who can catch the ball out of the backfield, kinda like Danny Woodhead. Don't read too much into that silly stat you had me bring up as the rec yards overshadow rush yards.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

The only reason he appears to be good is because of his receiving threat. On the rushing RPA list there are 18 players who surpassed him and two more who equaled his total while carrying the ball more. For receiving threats out of the backfield he ranks 8th in YPC (only including those with 30+ recs).

He is a mid-range RB who can catch the ball out of the backfield, kinda like Danny Woodhead. Don't read too much into that silly stat you had me bring up as the rec yards overshadow rush yards.

Never heard someone try to make someone being a dual threat sound like a negative thing. You certainly are reaching now.

lol

 

[Cythim]

You keep trying to spin this argument because you keep losing it. Felix is a good back for what he is, a 3rd down change of pace back. You want to peg him as being among the top 10 RBs in the league when he just isn't that good. You look for some stat to support yourself and when I shoot you fight back with stupid. I am not reaching for anything and I am not painting Felix in a negative light. I am showing you what he is instead of what you imagine him to be.

His rushing ability is just above average. He has homerun capabilities that will deminish the more he carries the ball. You want proof? In 2008 he had 30 carries and 8.9 YPC. In 2009 his carries increased to 116 but his YPC dropped to 5.9. In 2010 his carries increased again to 185 while his YPC dropped again to 4.3. The more you give him the ball the less of a threat he becomes.

Don't try to tell him as being as good as AP or Chris Johnson.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Here's the spin free version since you don't seem to get it.

Felix was one of only a handful of backs to average over 5 yards everytime he touched the ball last season, while accumulating over 200 total touches.

All 9 players that acheived this feat are very good backs, and Felix did it behind a terrible line.

Spin free for your protection..

 

[RoyTheHammer]

That being said.. do i think Felix is as good a back as AP or Jones Drew or Chris Johnson?

No. But he certainly gave us some very solid production last year. Any team would be lucky to have a guy who got the ball over 200 times and gave you 5 yards a pop. His situation will only improve next season too, as our line will be better and our star QB will be back. Guy is only 24.. he's on the upswing people. Get ready for more of him.. because he isn't going away anytime soon. He has big time ability.

 

[Cythim]

Well there are only 9 guys here to begin with so already i'd say you should bone up on your math skills. If you did set the bar at 250 touches and 5.5 yards per touch i think you'd have 3, maybe 4 guys who did that this past season. The best of the best. That wouldn't mean that Felix wasn't still right up there with the best in the league in terms of yardage per touch. Every one of those guys he's up there with is a very very good RB.

Go recount, there are 12 total and CJ didn't make the list. I was using the 11 that Sheik threw out, but lets turn into women and nitpick over numbers right? There are at least three more who made over 5 yards per touch but didn't meet your magical 200 touch mark. Heck, there are more RBs who touched the ball much more but didn't match the magical 5 YPT mark because they do not carry Felix's rush/rec ratio. Felix isn't a top 15 RB and I don't know if he can even find his way into the top 20.

 

[Cythim]

Here's the spin free version since you don't seem to get it.

Felix was one of only a handful of backs to average over 5 yards everytime he touched the ball last season, while accumulating over 200 total touches.

All 9 players that acheived this feat are very good backs, and Felix did it behind a terrible line.

Spin free for your protection..

First, it was 12.

Second, you give Felix extra credit for his line situation without taking into consideration what all the other RBs that did and did not make the list had to work with.

Third, adding REC stats to bulk his YPT number is a horrible way to attempt to prove his worth as compared to other RBs. You have to consider how each team uses their RBs based on the style of offense, offensive game plan, and the availability of other RBs on the team. Turner is a better RB but he does not participate in the passing game. Chris Johnson is a better RB but is the teams major weapon (33% of yard production) while Felix isn't (20% of yard production) thus teams target him more often. Green-Ellis and Woodhead are just as productive as Felix but cancel each other out for the good of the team.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

First, it was 12.

Second, you give Felix extra credit for his line situation without taking into consideration what all the other RBs that did and did not make the list had to work with.

Third, adding REC stats to bulk his YPT number is a horrible way to attempt to prove his worth as compared to other RBs. You have to consider how each team uses their RBs based on the style of offense, offensive game plan, and the availability of other RBs on the team. Turner is a better RB but he does not participate in the passing game. Chris Johnson is a better RB but is the teams major weapon (33% of yard production) while Felix isn't (20% of yard production) thus teams target him more often. Green-Ellis and Woodhead are just as productive as Felix but cancel each other out for the good of the team.

Again.. trying to downplay receiving stats.

Please.. stop. lol

Tell me.. what stat could i use that is more important in judging a back's worth than how many yards they gain every time they touch the ball?

 

[Cythim]

Again.. trying to downplay receiving stats.

Please.. stop. lol

Tell me.. what stat could i use that is more important in judging a back's worth than how many yards they gain every time they touch the ball?

How about any stat that deals with rushing instead of receiving. The fact is you get more yards per reception than you do per rush and that completely throws off the YPT number you are trying to gloat about. Lets break it down with math so I can prove the stupidity behind your numbers.

Player A
300 carries 4.3 YPC, 48 receptions 9.2 YPR

Felix
180 carries 4.3 YPC, 48 receptions 9.2 YPR

So you see that the receiving stats are exactly the same as is the average yards per carry. The only difference here is that Player A carries the ball for a full load while Felix doesn't.

Yards Per Touch
Player A - 5.0
Felix - 5.4

In spite of having similar rushing YPC and receiving stats, Player A loses ground because he carries the ball much more than Felix does. The numbers are not representative of the player's ability because Felix gets a larger percent of his touches through receiving. This would be like touting DeSean Jackson as the best WR in the NFC East because he is a great return man.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Exactly. Vladimir Lenins got it.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

So how many yards they get every time when they carry the ball is more important than how many yards they gain for you every single time they touch the football?

So we're penalizing for being a good receiving threat out of the backfield now huh?

Flawless logic.. how you arn't in the NFL coaching somewhere right now is a travesty. lol

 

[Cythim]

So how many yards they get every time when they carry the ball is more important than how many yards they gain for you every single time they touch the football?

So we're penalizing for being a good receiving threat out of the backfield now huh?

Flawless logic.. how you arn't in the NFL coaching somewhere right now is a travesty. lol

No, you are penalizing running backs who run the ball. Of the top 10 rushing leaders only 4 make your list. Turner, Mendenhall, Johnson, Rice, Bradshaw and Steven Jackson are out because they do not catch the ball enough to inflate their per touch stat. Guys like Brandon Jacobs, who gained more yards on the ground with fewer carries (and found the end zone a total of 7 more times!) than Felix take a hit because their team does not utilize them in the passing game. You are punishing running back who do not catch out of the backfield because you want to promote Felix's abilities and prop him up as elite.

There is a reason I had to crunch these numbers myself... the stat does not exist because it is stupid.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

No, you are penalizing running backs who run the ball. Of the top 10 rushing leaders only 4 make your list. Turner, Mendenhall, Johnson, Rice, Bradshaw and Steven Jackson are out because they do not catch the ball enough to inflate their per touch stat. Guys like Brandon Jacobs, who gained more yards on the ground with fewer carries (and found the end zone a total of 7 more times!) than Felix take a hit because their team does not utilize them in the passing game. You are punishing running back who do not catch out of the backfield because you want to promote Felix's abilities and prop him up as elite.

First of all, Bradshaw missed out because, contrary to your belief, all RB's receiving stat's arn't automatically significantly higher. Bradshaw averaged 4.5 a carry, but only 6.7 yards per reception, unlike alot of the other elite backs who averaged around 9 or 10 per reception. Jackson and Mendenhall don't make the list because neither even avereged 4 yards per carry.

If you'd like to up the minimum number of touches to qualify, i could understand that.

But saying that rushing or receiving stats should be more important than the other is silly. Acting like because he's a dual threat out of the backfield it should take away from a running back's overall stats is ridiculous. I really don't give a damn how my back gets his yards, as long as he gets me those yards. That's all that matters on the football field is that he's getting those yards every time i give him the ball.

 

[Rock Slamdance]

This thread makes me sleepy.

 

[sbk92]

He's saying the more a back carries the ball the less his yards per touch will be.

And he's right.

Having said that, DaHammer is right about Felix's underrated year last year.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

He's saying the more a back carries the ball the less his yards per touch will be.

And he's right.

Yup, and i don't have a problem with saying that. As i said, if you want to increase the minimum number of touches if you don't think 200 is enough, i understand that. That's a fair point to make.

However, saying that rushing yards should matter more than receiving yards or vice versa is just silly. However my running back is getting his, the bottom line is he's getting me 5 plus yards every time he touches the ball. Can't ask for much more than that.

 

[sbk92]

Yup, and i don't have a problem with saying that. As i said, if you want to increase the minimum number of touches if you don't think 200 is enough, i understand that. That's a fair point to make.

However, saying that rushing yards should matter more than receiving yards or vice versa is just silly. However my running back is getting his, the bottom line is he's getting me 5 plus yards every time he touches the ball. Can't ask for much more than that.

Yeah but if he touched the ball more, his YPT would go down. So it's not a fair comparison. Any complimentary RB who can catch the football should have a high YPT.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yeah but if he touched the ball more, his YPT would go down. So it's not a fair comparison. Any complimentary RB who can catch the football should have a high YPT.

I agree if he got more carries his YPT would have gone down. How much? I dunno.. im all for giving him a chance to find out though. I think he's earned it and if we don't find out now we are doing ourselves a disservice. He's only 24, we spent a first round pick on him, he had a very solid year last season.. give him the ball this year and let him show us what he can do.