Cowboys owner Jones on coaches' influence on player evaluation: 'If it got down to it

[cmd34]

GM's have scouts build the draft board. Many GM's draft to the board, hence the scouts are basically running the draft

Scouts should be your most relied upon assets for information on draftable players, they do not run the draft.

 

[dbair1967]

Scouts should be your most relied upon assets for information on draftable players, they do not run the draft.

If a team drafts BPA's, and the scouts set the board. Who is running the draft?

 

[cmd34]

If a team drafts BPA's, and the scouts set the board. Who is running the draft?

You're right. All 32 NFL GM's are figure heads like Jerry. Scouts run the draft.

Jerry has came out a dozen times publicly and said he makes the final decision on everything...EVERYTHING. I'm not sure what it's going to take for you and your ilk to get that.

Do you think since Jimmy Johnson left that we have drafted a single player Jerry didn't want ? He might not get everyone he wants (talked out of it, players not available) but we definitely don't trade for/sign/draft any player Jerry doesn't want. Final say. It's that simple.

 

[junk]

GM's have scouts build the draft board. Many GM's draft to the board, hence the scouts are basically running the draft

Your GM should have a scouting background to begin with.

The scouts spend the year evaluating players. Coaches tend to watch guys at the end of the process and fall in love. However, there has to be some back and forth between the two. A coach might not think a guy is a good fit because of scheme, attitude, whatever.

Ultimately, it is up to your GM to guide that back and forth process and lead the construction of the draft board. That should also be the guy with the background information to make the actual call on draft day.

 

[UVAwahoos]

Jerry supporters have realized that we suck ass, and that we've sucked ass for like 15 years (with the exception of Parcells and his staff in the front office). Rather than go senile, they've convinced themselves that this is the way the franchise is run. Where Jerry doesn't have a say. That way, they have hope still.

It's like if your child kills someone, but you still love him. Jerry killed America's Team, but they still love him because the alternative is just too dark and gloomy.

 

[jiggyfly]

The fuck it doesnt have anything to do with Garrett. Or Rob Ryan.

Its an unheard of proposition for underlings/scouts be the ultimate tie-breaker. You think it isn't because...well...you're kind of an idiot.

Who ever said scouts or underlings are the ultimate tie breakers for us.

The ultimate tie breaker is the GM who is Jerry and that's why you are throwing a temper tantrum, just admit why you are bitching and this can be over.

 

[jiggyfly]

Jerry supporters have realized that we suck ass, and that we've sucked ass for like 15 years (with the exception of Parcells and his staff in the front office). Rather than go senile, they've convinced themselves that this is the way the franchise is run. Where Jerry doesn't have a say. That way, they have hope still.

It's like if your child kills someone, but you still love him. Jerry killed America's Team, but they still love him because the alternative is just too dark and gloomy.

I was wondering when somebody would chime in with the Jerry supporters crap.

The conversation was not about Jerry and his abilities but about how much sway should the scouts have as opposed to Garrett.

Would you like to comment on that or continue to be pissed off about a totally different subject.

 

[jiggyfly]

Your GM should have a scouting background to begin with.

The scouts spend the year evaluating players. Coaches tend to watch guys at the end of the process and fall in love. However, there has to be some back and forth between the two. A coach might not think a guy is a good fit because of scheme, attitude, whatever.

Ultimately, it is up to your GM to guide that back and forth process and lead the construction of the draft board. That should also be the guy with the background information to make the actual call on draft day.

Totally agree.

 

[dbair1967]

You're right. All 32 NFL GM's are figure heads like Jerry. Scouts run the draft.

Jerry has came out a dozen times publicly and said he makes the final decision on everything...EVERYTHING. I'm not sure what it's going to take for you and your ilk to get that.

Do you think since Jimmy Johnson left that we have drafted a single player Jerry didn't want ? He might not get everyone he wants (talked out of it, players not available) but we definitely don't trade for/sign/draft any player Jerry doesn't want. Final say. It's that simple.

I asked for an example of a player we've drafted since 2003 that you believe (or someone else) that Jerry's stupidity overruled others on. I got the sound of crickets

 

[cmd34]

I asked for an example of a player we've drafted since 2003 that you believe (or someone else) that Jerry's stupidity overruled others on. I got the sound of crickets

You asked a question that can't be answered since the only people who know are Jerry and people who collect their paycheck from Jerry. Also, why since 2003? Shante Carver, Dwayne Goodrich, Tony Dixon, and Quincy Carter don't fit your agenda? Chad Hutchinson and Drew Henson acquisitions either?

As far as after 2003, I've read you and others say Jason Williams was all Wade, which is convenient since Jerry supporters have thrown Wade under the bus. The Alan Ball Free Safety misstep will be all Dave Campo's fault. Jerry recently admitted they (he) seriously misjudged the NFL readiness of Nagy and Costa last year. I seem to remember you saying Jerry and the staff knew what they were doing with the O line last year. Also, Robert Brewster and unfortunately David Arkin look like serious misses right now.

You want to give Jerry the "credit" for 3 Superbowl wins with Jimmy Johnson's players but then assign him no blame for the 15 plus years of ineptness since then. Jerry tells the world over and over again that he's in charge and the homers continue to live in this world where Jerry's just some senile spokesperson where the Coaches and Scouts secretly run the team in dark rooms. Jerry clearly runs this team. He feels the need to walk up to and speak with the Head Coach during games. Continue believing he is not the problem, you are actually part of the reason he continues doing it. As long as homer fans keep applauding Jerry, he will continue his act.

 

[Midswat]

I asked for an example of a player we've drafted since 2003 that you believe (or someone else) that Jerry's stupidity overruled others on. I got the sound of crickets

Wasn't drafted, but involved draft picks:

Roy Williams trade. Detroit. 2008.

 

[cmd34]

Wasn't drafted, but involved draft picks:

Roy Williams trade. Detroit. 2008.

How about the overall strategy of the 2009 draft?

 

[bbgun]

But .. but .. I thought Jerry was just a "figurehead" who deferred to Garrett when there were disputes. Guess I was duped.

 

[dbair1967]

You asked a question that can't be answered since the only people who know are Jerry and people who collect their paycheck from Jerry. Also, why since 2003?

Because in 2003 he hired Parcells, and began running the team differently. I agree he made alot of horrible decisions where he probably overruled people from 1994-2001.

As far as after 2003, I've read you and others say Jason Williams was all Wade, which is convenient since Jerry supporters have thrown Wade under the bus. The Alan Ball Free Safety misstep will be all Dave Campo's fault. Jerry recently admitted they (he) seriously misjudged the NFL readiness of Nagy and Costa last year. I seem to remember you saying Jerry and the staff knew what they were doing with the O line last year. Also, Robert Brewster and unfortunately David Arkin look like serious misses right now.

Arkin's way too early to write off. Brewster is ultimately a bad pick, but is that an example of Jerry telling the scouts he is going to overrule their advice? Brewster WAS rated as a top-100 pick by several services, and was in Goselin's top-100 that yr as well.

You want to give Jerry the "credit" for 3 Superbowl wins with Jimmy Johnson's players but then assign him no blame for the 15 plus years of ineptness since then. Jerry tells the world over and over again that he's in charge and the homers continue to live in this world where Jerry's just some senile spokesperson where the Coaches and Scouts secretly run the team in dark rooms. Jerry clearly runs this team. He feels the need to walk up to and speak with the Head Coach during games. Continue believing he is not the problem, you are actually part of the reason he continues doing it. As long as homer fans keep applauding Jerry, he will continue his act.

Where do you get this crap from? I've never given Jones credit for anything really, other than getting one hire right in a huge way (Jimmy) and basically letting Jimmy do everything from 89-93. Other than that, the only things he deserves any credit for is the business side of football, which he has been pretty good at.

Conversely, I gave him all kinds of blame for the stupid shit that he did afetr the breakup with Jimmy. He hired 3 awful coaches in a row. He let the inmates start running asylum under those watches. He wa ill prepared. He made several really bad personnel decisions. All thats on him.

But I do think things have been different since the 5-11 three-peat under Campo.

 

[dbair1967]

How about the overall strategy of the 2009 draft?

Well he employed a strategy that several other good football people had in the past (and has worked from time to time) by going with quantity over quality, and hoping you increase your chances of hitting on more guys. We didnt have a first and the players they wanted in the 2nd got picked before our turn.

Unfortunately it was an awful crop of players.

 

[dbair1967]

Wasn't drafted, but involved draft picks:

Roy Williams trade. Detroit. 2008.

Something virtually every fan in every football fan of the team was crowing for. Get a Roy Williams, Anquan Boldin or (the 3rd name escapes me). Nobody had a problem with what the price was going to be, until RW got here and didnt perform at the level most expected.

Ultimately it was a bad decision because RW flamed out for the most part. But trading for RW also sped up the process of getting the cancer TO out of town. If RW hadnt have been on the roster, they might have kept him for another year or two.

 

[cmd34]

Brewster WAS rated as a top-100 pick by several services, and was in Goselin's top-100 that yr as well.

Here we go again. Usually when "Top-100 picks" are released a year into their careers (they usually aren't by the way) they don't clear waivers. A player that was Top 100 and rated that way by several teams do not get passed on by 31 teams when they have a low base salary of a 3rd round draft pick.

 

[Sheik]

I think we can all agree that Jerry needs to take a dirt nap.

 

[dbair1967]

Here we go again. Usually when "Top-100 picks" are released a year into their careers (they usally aren't by the way) they don't clear waivers. A player that was Top 100 and rated that way by several teams do not get passed on by 31 teams when they have a low base salary of a 3rd round draft pick.

Doesnt mean that wasnt where he was rated at in the beginning though.

Just means teams got a look at him with us, saw how out of shape he stayed in and that he couldnt play and didnt want him later.

 

[cmd34]

Brewster was a reach at the time along with several other reaches this Jerry Jones as GM team has made.

Gosselin gets his info from teams. He got the Brewster tidbit from the Cowboys. No other team has publicly said they had Brewster rated high. The highest I saw was the Bears had a 5th round grade on him. Jerry just admitted a day ago that HE has really missed on some offensive linemen the past few years.

Jerry sucks. You live in a fantasy land. The end.