2016 NFL Draft Thread...

[ZeroClub]

And to muddy the waters a bit more ... there is "smart" and "football smart."

In light of his repeated difficulty with game management decisions/strategy, in no way has Garrett demonstrated a high level of "football smarts."

 

[Iamtdg]

And to muddy the waters a bit more ... there is "smart" and "football smart."

In light of his repeated difficulty with game management decisions/strategy, in no way has Garrett demonstrated a high level of "football smarts."

Copy cat.

 

[MrB]

it's of no solace to me that Red was better than Troy at algebra and biology 30 years ago, because none of it has translated to winning football games.

Again, that is the exact point I've been trying to make

 

[bbgun]

and Jerry is the living embodiment of business smart and football fool.

 

[peplaw06]

I pretty much ignore anything anyone says about a QB if they first talk about arm strength or size. What is really important about a QB FIRST is what is between the ears. EVERYTHING ELSE is second at best.

1) That's dumb.

2) We're not privvy to what is between the ears of any particular QB prospect. All we can talk about is what we see when he throws the ball.

3) Scouts ALWAYS identify a player's physical skills before they start finding out what's between the ears. When you try to find QB talent, you don't go into the classroom and start interviewing guys. You go to the football field first, you identify who has talent, and THEN you go talk to them. Any other way is a waste of time.

Your way would be like looking for a house by scouring the internet only for pictures of what's inside the walls and under the floor. No one does that. They look at the specs of the house and pictures of the living areas first, they identify what interests them, and then they dig deeper to see the guts.

 

[MrB]

1) That's dumb.

2) We're not privvy to what is between the ears of any particular QB prospect. All we can talk about is what we see when he throws the ball.

3) Scouts ALWAYS identify a player's physical skills before they start finding out what's between the ears. When you try to find QB talent, you don't go into the classroom and start interviewing guys. You go to the football field first, you identify who has talent, and THEN you go talk to them. Any other way is a waste of time.

Your way would be like looking for a house by scouring the internet only for pictures of what's inside the walls and under the floor. No one does that. They look at the specs of the house and pictures of the living areas first, they identify what interests them, and then they dig deeper to see the guts.

Exactly!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Does anyone know how Garrett got into Princeton? This, 'he's the smartest guy in the room' rote would make more sense if he earned an academic scholarship to Princeton and walked onto the football team.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

lol that fucker earned a degree in history. The fuck out of here with that Princeton shit.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Does anyone know how Garrett got into Princeton?

Same way he got the job with the Cowboys... His daddy was there.

 

[onlyonenow]

1) That's dumb.

2) We're not privvy to what is between the ears of any particular QB prospect. All we can talk about is what we see when he throws the ball.

3) Scouts ALWAYS identify a player's physical skills before they start finding out what's between the ears. When you try to find QB talent, you don't go into the classroom and start interviewing guys. You go to the football field first, you identify who has talent, and THEN you go talk to them. Any other way is a waste of time.

Your way would be like looking for a house by scouring the internet only for pictures of what's inside the walls and under the floor. No one does that. They look at the specs of the house and pictures of the living areas first, they identify what interests them, and then they dig deeper to see the guts.

ah said the spider to the fly....

welcome to my parlor.....

You just explained why so many QBs are busts in the draft. Because everyone pretty much looks at what is obvious instead of putting most of the effort into trying to figure out what is between the ears.

To be blunt you are just like every other internet expert wannabe and frankly like too many scouts and coaches.

You take the easy route.

 

[cmd34]

Professor X the football scout..cool.

 

[onlyonenow]

When you hear about teams using analyticals and trying to basically come up with formulas to better figure out what to do there is one out there I have not heard of anyone trying.

Look at the top 10 QBs of the past 20 years.

Brady, P Manning, ETC.

Analyze the crap out of them.

Figure out the three or four MENTAL things each one has in common.

Then when you scout QBs if that QB does not have ALL of those factors you move on. That narrows down what you have to look at as regards numbers and therefore you can put more resources into those few that do have those factors as best you can determine.

Screw this crap about a cannon arm and a big body and so on.

Joe Montana was relatively small for his time and his arm was not so great.
Peyton Manning at his best had an average arm. Certainly not mobile.
You can look at the top QBs of each era and very few were like Elway.
Jumongus arguably had about the best physical build you could ask for and a nuclear launcher for an arm.
Jeff George had a cannon as well.
Lots of others were big and strong. Could take a lot of punishment.
Where are they now?

 

[peplaw06]

ah said the spider to the fly....

welcome to my parlor.....

You just explained why so many QBs are busts in the draft. Because everyone pretty much looks at what is obvious instead of putting most of the effort into trying to figure out what is between the ears.

To be blunt you are just like every other internet expert wannabe and frankly like too many scouts and coaches.

You take the easy route.

Compared to identifying mental makeup first, you're damn right it's the easy route. I prefer to call it the efficient route though. Instead of analyzing every single piece of straw in the haystack for the needle, I'm identifying which ones are shiny and going from there.

But if you'll notice, never did I say how much effort scouts should try to put into finding out what a QBs mental makeup is. All I said is that they all look for physical attributes first to identify talent, then try to find out the mental makeup.

And every talent evaluator probably has different things they look for in mental makeup. There is no one way to determine what mental makeup will make a successful QB. There have been some successful QBs who are fiery competitors, there are some who have ice water in their veins. There have been some who are in your face leaders, and some who lead by example alone. Your idea that you go look at the "top 10 QBs and analyze the crap out of them" is so elementary it's embarrassing.

Ironic that you think I'm the one being an internet expert wannabe.

 

[Midswat]

The notion that arm strength or physical attributes 'doesn't matter,' or even it's importance being diminished is ridiculous. Kellen Moore is football smart as fuck. You want him as your starter? There's a ton of 'smart' QB's that don't pan out because they lack the required arm strength.

That isn't to say that the head game doesn't matter. Clearly it does - otherwise players like Leaf or George or Russell wouldn't have busted. But you start how peplaw suggests - as every draft scout/nfl front office etc does... find the physical attributes first (as they're the most easily recognized) then parse the players down by their intangibles - to include leadership ability and intelligence.

 

[Scot]

Garrett strikes me as book smart. That's why he's an OK process guy. He tries to follow some coaching blue print

That's why he blames everything on execution. No creativity in game planning. No feel for the game.

If he's book smart then he needs to read Jimmy's book. Maybe he will learn something

 

[Doomsday]

If he's book smart then he needs to read Jimmy's book. Maybe he will learn something

DING DING DING!

 

[onlyonenow]

The notion that arm strength or physical attributes 'doesn't matter,' or even it's importance being diminished is ridiculous. Kellen Moore is football smart as fuck. You want him as your starter? There's a ton of 'smart' QB's that don't pan out because they lack the required arm strength.

That isn't to say that the head game doesn't matter. Clearly it does - otherwise players like Leaf or George or Russell wouldn't have busted. But you start how peplaw suggests - as every draft scout/nfl front office etc does... find the physical attributes first (as they're the most easily recognized) then parse the players down by their intangibles - to include leadership ability and intelligence.

and the current system fails how much of the time? Notice you do not want to seem to address that FACT.

 

[onlyonenow]

Compared to identifying mental makeup first, you're damn right it's the easy route. I prefer to call it the efficient route though. Instead of analyzing every single piece of straw in the haystack for the needle, I'm identifying which ones are shiny and going from there.

But if you'll notice, never did I say how much effort scouts should try to put into finding out what a QBs mental makeup is. All I said is that they all look for physical attributes first to identify talent, then try to find out the mental makeup.

And every talent evaluator probably has different things they look for in mental makeup. There is no one way to determine what mental makeup will make a successful QB. There have been some successful QBs who are fiery competitors, there are some who have ice water in their veins. There have been some who are in your face leaders, and some who lead by example alone. Your idea that you go look at the "top 10 QBs and analyze the crap out of them" is so elementary it's embarrassing.

Ironic that you think I'm the one being an internet expert wannabe.

and you are just another drone shilling the party line. Which by the way in case you have not noticed= and judging from your posts that is all you are= the current way things are being done work how much of the time? Notice you hide from questions like that.

 

[dbair1967]

From Tony Pauline:

1. Showered with praise after three very good days of practice and a solid showing in the Senior Bowl game, quarterback Carson Wentz was even more impressive in closed-door meetings with coaches and general managers. I’m told he knocked it out of the park during interviews as personnel people around the league who interviewed Wentz were awed by his knowledge of X’s and O’s. The belief is the North Dakota State product, who was a 4.0 student in college, should have no problem running a multiple formation offense on Sundays and coaches love his upside.

2. Though he didn’t attend the Senior Bowl, Christian Hackenberg is another signal-caller whose upside potential excites NFL decision-makers. Some eyebrows were raised when Hackenberg left for the NFL Draft after two dismal seasons, but the situation at Penn State was untenable for him. He offers the physical skills to start on Sunday and teams truly believe with proper coaching he’ll reach his potential in the NFL, something Hackenberg would’ve never achieved on the college level. No one I’ve spoken with in the past two months believes Hackenberg will drop out of the draft’s top 75 picks.

3. Is it possible two quarterbacks will be top five selections in April? The answer from league insiders is “yes” with Carson Wentz and Jared Goff filling the slots. Wentz is watching his draft stock move north after the Senior Bowl and many believe the Combine is the perfect setting for Goff to show off his talents. Assuming he participates in Combine workouts, one insider told me they expect Goff to, “throw the hell out of the ball and be on the mark with all his passes.”

4. Contrary to Wentz and Goff there’s little excitement for Connor Cook. I took flak from Michigan State fans last week after posting teammates were “less than effusive in their praise” of the quarterback, but scouts and insiders I spoke with in Mobile said the situation surrounding Cook’s personality poses a problem for them. The fact he chose not to attend the Senior Bowl further complicates the situation and it’s something Cook will be grilled about during the Combine.

 

[bbgun]

Same way he got the job with the Cowboys... His daddy was there.

I don't think so.