2013 NFL Draft Thread

[cmd34(work)]

but Carver was rated a 1st rd pick by just about everyone that year

Not true but okay.

 

[Midswat]

thats just a list of good things and bad things that you've arbitrarily assigned to jerry's credit or detriment.

No. No it actually isn't.

Control of personnel was in Jimmys contract.
Broaddus was in the war room and told the story of how Jerry and Stephen sold Parcells on Ware over Spears/Merriman at 11.

All the bad stuff? Prey tell how any of that wasn't Jerrys fault?

I'll eagerly await your response.

 

[Midswat]

Not true but okay.

Yeah I remember it coming out that when we made that pick, the Packers had Carver rated as a 5th rounder and Ron Wolf looked around his draft room and told his scouts that he hoped they were right about him.

 

[superpunk]

No. No it actually isn't.

Control of personnel was in Jimmys contract.
Broaddus was in the war room and told the story of how Jerry and Stephen sold Parcells on Ware over Spears/Merriman at 11.

All the bad stuff? Prey tell how any of that wasn't Jerrys fault?

I'll eagerly await your response.

not getting into a pointless argument about your arbitrary cutoff points.

 

[cmd34(work)]

Yeah I remember it coming out that when we made that pick, the Packers had Carver rated as a 5th rounder and Ron Wolf looked around his draft room and told his scouts that he hoped they were right about him.

49ers had a 3rd round grade on him but also put him in the box for awful work ethic. Called him a "slug".

 

[marionbarberthe4th]

Jfc this ware shit again?

 

[Midswat]

not getting into a pointless argument about your arbitrary cutoff points.

Don't blame you. You know, with that whole not having a leg to stand on thing you got going for you.

 

[superpunk]

just don't want to deal with your incessant trolling on this topic.

 

[cmd34(work)]

trolling

cop out.

You're better than that.

 

[superpunk]

how am I supposed to argue these arbitrary cutoff points? I wasn't in the meetings. I don't know how involved Jerry was in drafting Sean Lee vs. Bobby Carpenter. I just think it's dishonest to go around throwing all the bad stuff in Jerry camp and the good stuff in a list of non-Jerry moves based on nothing or almost nothing.

feel free to drop that "you're better than this" line on everyone who insists I'm trolling every time I'm handing them their asses cmdork.

<3 u

 

[Midswat]

just don't want to deal with your incessant trolling on this topic.

Don't blame you. You know, with that whole not having a leg to stand on thing you got going for you.

 

[cmd34(work)]

do you need to be in the meetings to notice that we've only had 1 playoff win in 17 years?

What is the one constant in those 17 years? No other corporation would accept that much failure from it's leadership for that long of a time.

 

[Midswat]

how am I supposed to argue these arbitrary cutoff points? I wasn't in the meetings. I don't know how involved Jerry was in drafting Sean Lee vs. Bobby Carpenter. I just think it's dishonest to go around throwing all the bad stuff in Jerry camp and the good stuff in a list of non-Jerry moves based on nothing or almost nothing.

feel free to drop that "you're better than this" line on everyone who insists I'm trolling every time I'm handing them their asses cmdork.

<3 u

Well, there are things that we we know.

We know that Jimmy had personnel control written in his contract.

We know that Jerry talked Parcells into Ware.


The rest? It's called benefit of the doubt.

When you have Jerry's track record... you do't quite get benefit of the doubt.

If you want to think Jerry is a good GM, or that he deserves more credit than an intelligent fan is willing to give him, so be it.

 

[superpunk]

do you need to be in the meetings to notice that we've only had 1 playoff win in 17 years?

What is the one constant in those 17 years? No other corporation would accept that much failure from it's leadership for that long of a time.

holy fuck what are you talking about?

 

[superpunk]

If you want to think Jerry is a good GM

Post a link to where I said or suggested that.

If you can't do that, then either understand what I'm saying or stfu.

I'll save you a step. Jerry is a terrible GM. Now get on my level and either explain why you insist on making arbitrary distinctions for him that we make for absolutely no other terrible GM. For instance, Charlie Casserly was a terrible GM. But we don't insist on stripping him of all credit for drafting Andre Johnson and others - we just say he's a terrible GM.

Get on my level or shut up.

 

[dbair1967]

Not true but okay.

Yeah, I didn't count the draft guides by "experts" cmd34 and sbk

This is another of those things you are wrong about. He WAS rated a first round pick by just about everybody that had something published then, and the ones that didn't had him in the early 2nd.

 

[cmd34(work)]

You are right David.


Thanks.

 

[dbair1967]

49ers had a 3rd round grade on him but also put him in the box for awful work ethic. Called him a "slug".

I don't remember ever reading anything about a questionable work ethic with him. But I remember guys like Mel Kiper saying "Carever is one of my favorite players in the draft" in his annual draft guide.

This is what your fag lover sbklueless argued until he was blue in the face about. I even offered to copy the fucking page and send it to his stupid ass, and he still argued otherwise.

 

[dbair1967]

Advanced scouting: Matt Elam

April, 15, 2013


By Calvin Watkins | ESPNDallas.com

To help preview who might be on the Dallas Cowboys’ board for the NFL draft, ESPNDallas.com has identified five players at five key positions that we’d like to learn more about. Along those lines, we’ve asked former Cowboys assistant coach Glenn “Stretch” Smith – the official scout of Galloway & Company – to study tape of each player and give his thoughts.

No. 1 Safety Matt Elam
Height/weight: 5-foot-10, 208 pounds
School: Florida

Why he’s on the radar: The Cowboys need to improve their play on the backend of the secondary. With veteran Gerald Sensabaugh gone and veteran backup Will Allen now on the roster, finding a younger player who can cover and play close to the line of scrimmage is important. That's Elam, who covered slot receivers and displayed a physical presence in college. Making plays on the ball is important in the new Tampa 2 scheme and Elam is someone who can do that. Getting Elam in the second round is a good selection if the Cowboys go with an offensive lineman in the first round.

Projection: Late first round, early second round

Stretch Truths: Another of many box safeties in this draft. ... Flashes to play the run. ... Inconsistent to force and rush. ... Has some catch-up speed and makes big hits. ... Not natural to pedal, turn his hips and run. ... Not comfortable as a half-field or single-high safety. ... Not very aggressive to plant and drive on the ball. ... Poor hands to go and make the catch. ... Does play the game with some passion.

 

[dbair1967]

Just for CMD, I dug up my Kiper Draft Guide from 1994 ( I started getting them in 1989, quit getting them around 2003 or so because I just couldn't stand Kiper anymore)

Anyway this is the full write up Kiper has on Shante Carver. In the guide, he has Carver rated the #3 DE prospect behind Sam Adams and Henry Ford (both of whom eneded up being DT's, and Ford was thought to be the player we were going to draft had we not taken Carver). Kiper assigned a grade of 9.1 to Carver, putting him in a tie for the 24th best available player on his board. He also had Carver listed as his most underrated DE prospect, and noted him as a player that helped himself the most with solid all star performance.

As an aside, not sure if some remember but this is the draft where we had a deal in place with the Rams to trade up. They were going to move up and take Willie McGinest (Alvin Harper was going to be traded as part of this deal) but the Patriots surprised a lot of people and took McGinest 1 pick earlier.

Here's the write up:

The premier pass rusher in ASU history, finishing his stellar career with 41 sacks in 44 games. Shante just couldn't be blocked at the college level, presenting a package of athletic skills, quickness, determination and overall technique that overwhelmed Pac 10 OT's. It didn't matter what caliber of opponent the Sun Devils faced, a constant you could always rely on was Shante busting his tail each snap. This kid never lets up, making him in my opinion the most consistent defensive player in the country. One player that saw enough of #98 in his career was Drew Bledsoe. Shante sacked Bledsoe 10 times during his career, recording one of hs best individual performances against Washington St in 93. In that game he posed 10 tackles, 2 for loss, 2 sacks, 2 pass deflections, one fumble recovery, a blocked punt and a blocked field goal. The only question when you project Shante to the next level is size. he's checked in anywhere from 225 to 243, weiging 238 during Senior Bowl week in Mobile. The NFL clubs I've spoken with feel he should have no problem carrying around 260 once he's been in the league 2-3 years. I see him as a Marco Coleman type who would be most effective in a 4-3 scheme where he can go one on one with the OT. Combine the added weight with his awesome quickness and you should be looking at quite a force on the outside. (Summary) One of my favorite players in the draft, due primarily to his relentless style and focused approach. He's self motivated, productive and also extremely durable, which is critical when evaluating a player who doesn't fit the ideal physical parameters.