Would you trust Tyron Smith at LT this year?

[RoyTheHammer]

I agree that the help shifted as the season went on. But only because of how bad Colombo was. It was either max protect and severely limit your offense or shift the help.

The reason the protection shifted is an entirely different concern. The fact is, the protection did shift, as we both can agree.. and Free was left on an island alot more than you intially wanted to let on. Even being left without much help for the majority of the season, he performed very well.

 

[sbk92]

The reason the protection shifted is an entirely different concern. The fact is, the protection did shift, as we both can agree.. and Free was left on an island alot more than you intially wanted to let on. Even being left without much help for the majority of the season, he performed very well.

No. The reason is very relevant. It shifted because Free was bookended by the worst T in football. So what NoShame said was correct. He looked good in comparison to the other players on that line.

If it shifted because of how well he played, then that would be different. The Cowboys had no choice and Free was decent. Kinda like Kitna was decent at QB. I don't want either starting.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

No. The reason is very relevant. It shifted because Free was bookended by the worst T in football. So what NoShame said was correct. He looked good in comparison to the other players on that line.

If it shifted because of how well he played, then that would be different. The Cowboys had no choice and Free was decent. Kinda like Kitna was decent at QB. I don't want either starting.

Its not relevant.. at all. It doesn't matter if it was Colombo on the other side or Tyson Clabo. THE FACT IS (according to both our accounts).. the protection shifted and Free was left on an island alot of the time. The only thing that matters in evaluating his performance is how he performed when he was left alone. He performed very well, imo. Especially for it being his first year starting at the position. Not an easy place to be thrown into.

 

[sbk92]

Its not relevant.. at all. It doesn't matter if it was Colombo on the other side or Tyson Clabo. THE FACT IS (according to both our accounts).. the protection shifted and Free was left on an island alot of the time. The only thing that matters in evaluating his performance is how he performed when he was left alone. He performed very well, imo. Especially for it being his first year starting at the position. Not an easy place to be thrown into.

It does matter. It means the team didn't do it because of what they thought of Free but of what they thought of Colombo. And they backed that up by burning a top 10 selection in the draft to replace Free. Their actions tell you where they stand on this issue.

I'd say he played decent. Not very well. He wasn't thrown into it either. He had years of development and at least the first month and a half of the season with double team help.

If Tyron Smith is the LT this year, he's being thrown into it.

 

[Midswat]

If Free played as well as he did with poor offensive linemates, consider how good he'll do once he has more confidence/familiarity with better linemates.

In any event... whether you love Free or hate him, he and Smith will be our bookends for the next 5-7 years.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

It does matter. It means the team didn't do it because of what they thought of Free but of what they thought of Colombo. And they backed that up by burning a top 10 selection in the draft to replace Free. Their actions tell you where they stand on this issue.

You really are hopeless.

When evaluating his performance, and being such a flawless talent evaluator like yourself I would think you'd understand this, the reason for Free being put on an island does not matter one bit. When a guy gets injured and another comes into replace him and puts up Pro Bowl numbers.. does that mean it was only because of the situation and you would say the guy really didn't perform that well?

Of course not, you twat.. whatever the reason, we got a chance to see Free play without much help for a majority of the season, and he performed well. Bottom line.

 

[Sheik]

I agree with noshame and Sbk on Free not being good enough at LT. Where my opinion is different is, I think Free can play RT. I think our new S&C coach is going to play a part in that and I think physical practice will play a part in that.

You want your LT to be elite. I'll take what Free did at RT the year before last. I think he can play there at a high level.

The team is in a tough spot with Free. How are you going to convince a guy to sign a contract for RT, but we want you to play LT for a little while?

 

[sbk92]

You really are hopeless.

When evaluating his performance, and being such a flawless talent evaluator like yourself I would think you'd understand this, the reason for Free being put on an island does not matter one bit. When a guy gets injured and another comes into replace him and puts up Pro Bowl numbers.. does that mean it was only because of the situation and you would say the guy really didn't perform that well?

Of course not, you twat.. whatever the reason, we got a chance to see Free play without much help for a majority of the season, and he performed well. Bottom line.

That's your bottom line not mine. Again, I'd say he played decent. You said he played very well. You're expecting me to take your opinion and make it my own.

Uh, no.

They started the season showing him little faith with constant help. Then once they saw just how bad their RT was, the single worst tackle in football, they had no choice but to shift the help to the right side. Free wasn't a trainwreck. He was decent. Then immediately after the season the Cowboys use the 9th overall pick on a player they project to take over for Free.

Doesn't exactly scream confidence in the ability of their current LT. If you believe in that guy, you don't make that pick. You take the Jaguars' deal and move down. Get a RT later to pair up with him.

That's the real deal on Doug Free. This mega talent that needs to be resigned to a huge free agent deal we can all cry about in three years when we're digging for cap pennies to field a competitive team.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

That's your bottom line not mine. Again, I'd say he played decent. You said he played very well. You're expecting me to take your opinion and make it my own.

Uh, no.

They started the season showing him little faith with constant help. Then once they saw just how bad their RT was, the single worst tackle in football, they had no choice but to shift the help to the right side. Free wasn't a trainwreck. He was decent. Then immediately after the season the Cowboys use the 9th overall pick on a player they project to take over for Free.

Doesn't exactly scream confidence in the ability of their current LT. If you believe in that guy, you don't make that pick. You take the Jaguars' deal and move down. Get a RT later to pair up with him.

That's the real deal on Doug Free. This mega talent that needs to be resigned to a huge free agent deal we can all cry about in three years when we're digging for cap pennies to field a competitive team.

You're basing how you think he performed on what moves the Cowboys made.. not his production on the field.

I expect more from a flawless talent evaluator such as yourself.. a little common sense at least.

Think maybe the Cowboys just realized that they NEED to shore up a bad OL and realized Colombo is done so they took the best OT available? Think maybe they knew that they had a guy who could start at either OT position and knew they were drafting one who could start at either OT position as well?

Nah.. Free must just be garbage.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

That's the real deal on Doug Free. This mega talent that needs to be resigned to a huge free agent deal we can all cry about in three years when we're digging for cap pennies to field a competitive team.

Also, again I'll ask, could you show me the report where they released the financial details of the agreement that hasn't been agreed to? Thanks so much..

 

[sbk92]

You're basing how you think he performed on what moves the Cowboys made.. not his production on the field.

Cmon, man. No team in this league would pick an offensive tackle at 9 if they think they currently have a LT worth investing in.

Elite RTs slide down the draft board. See Gabe Carimi.

Think maybe the Cowboys just realized that they NEED to shore up a bad OL and realized Colombo is done so they took the best OT available? Think maybe they knew that they had a guy who could start at either OT position and knew they were drafting one who could start at either OT position as well?

No. I don't think that.

Actually I don't think that either player can play both positions. They're both LTs in the NFL. One has the potential to be great. The other is marginal at best.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Cmon, man. No team in this league would pick an offensive tackle at 9 if they think they currently have a LT worth investing in.

Actually I don't think that either player can play both positions. They're both LTs in the NFL. One has the potential to be great. The other is marginal at best.

Free has already had starting experience at RT in the NFL and performed more than adequately.. and Smith turned himself into a first round pick playing RT at USC against some tough competition.

IMO, the Cowboys know that Smith is an all world talent and could be our LT of the future for years to come. You don't pass that up even if you have a quality left tackle already.

(Especially when that LT you have has the ability to play RT as well.)

 

[sbk92]

Free has already had starting experience at RT in the NFL and performed more than adequately.. and Smith turned himself into a first round pick playing RT at USC against some tough competition.

IMO, the Cowboys know that Smith is an all world talent and could be our LT of the future for years to come. You don't pass that up even if you have a quality left tackle already.

(Especially when that LT you have has the ability to play RT as well.)

Free played at RT. How well is an opinion. I obviously don't agree that he played well. I saw the same lack of push as when Colombo is in there.

Smith played RT in college. At 280 lbs. That is a far cry from being a quality NFL RT.

I haven't read anyone who broke down Smith for this draft that thinks his skill set belongs on the right side.

 

[Cr122]

Not for nothing but Robert Gallery was a LT in college, and started at LT in the NFL.

Now he's the starting RT. Having said this I believe Smith could make the transition to play RT this year.

Now down the road he could easily move back to the LT position, if Free doesn't get his big contract or we decide to go in another direction at RT.

I know a lot of us fans don't think Young has the ability to start at RT, but the team may see otherwise.

 

[dbair1967]

I agree with noshame and Sbk on Free not being good enough at LT. Where my opinion is different is, I think Free can play RT. I think our new S&C coach is going to play a part in that and I think physical practice will play a part in that.

You want your LT to be elite. I'll take what Free did at RT the year before last. I think he can play there at a high level.

The team is in a tough spot with Free. How are you going to convince a guy to sign a contract for RT, but we want you to play LT for a little while?

I didnt see elite LT's playing for either of the two super bowl teams last yr.

Alot of teams dont have elite LT's and win. Ideally you'd love to have an "elite" LT, but if you have a "good" LT you can win, and win alot.

Mark Tuinei was never an "elite" LT, he was a self made guy who worked his tail off and became a very good player for a long time, and we won 3 super bowls with him playing LT.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Boy oh boy SBK, using Smith drafting position to try to make a statement about Free not being a good offensive tackle is a real reach.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Cowboys were not drafting Smith because they thought Free was not a quality offensive tackle. I think it had more to do with:

-The guy playing the other tackle position
-Having a shot at the best offensive lineman in the draft... period
-Knowing that Free has played the right tackle position at a reasonable level, which gives the team some flexibility as to where Smith could be most effective given his skill set

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I didnt see elite LT's playing for either of the two super bowl teams last yr.

Alot of teams dont have elite LT's and win. Ideally you'd love to have an "elite" LT, but if you have a "good" LT you can win, and win alot.

Mark Tuinei was never an "elite" LT, he was a self made guy who worked his tail off and became a very good player for a long time, and we won 3 super bowls with him playing LT.

Those are valid points.

Who was New Orlean's "elite" left tackle that they own the Super Bowl with?

And you're right Tuey wasn't an elite LT either. Good? You bet. But not as good as what some think.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Those are valid points.

Who was New Orlean's "elite" left tackle that they own the Super Bowl with?

And you're right Tuey wasn't an elite LT either. Good? You bet. But not as good as what some think.

While this is true, dbair, i think we can all agree that the goal of this draft was to get an elite OT. Which is what we went right out and did. Now we have a guy who our coaches think is elite and also a guy who is a quality starter as well.

Its not even about if Free is elite or not, or if we have to have an elite tackle to win.. its about realizing how bad our OL was, and going out and addressing it directly by taking the best OL'man in the entire draft. We got our guy.

Its not a condemnation of Free's play at all.. its about upgrading. The only way you could think our coaches don't think Free played well is if you believe that Free and Smith are both ONLY LT's.. which i think i can safely say with 99.9 percent certainty our coaches DO NOT believe.

 

[Sheik]

I didnt see elite LT's playing for either of the two super bowl teams last yr.

Alot of teams dont have elite LT's and win. Ideally you'd love to have an "elite" LT, but if you have a "good" LT you can win, and win alot.

Mark Tuinei was never an "elite" LT, he was a self made guy who worked his tail off and became a very good player for a long time, and we won 3 super bowls with him playing LT.

I'm not claiming that you need an elite player at LT in order to win a Super Bowl. I am saying that if Doug Free was the future(5-7 years) at LT for this team, and the team felt comfortable with him at LT, then Tyron Smith would not be a Dallas Cowboy today. That's my opinion.

I don't trust Free at LT. I don't think he's the type of guy you settle on and call it good enough. Apparently neither did the shot callers and talent evaluators for this team(~Tyron Smith waves hello~).

 

[dbair1967]

TThey started the season showing him little faith with constant help.

You can keep saying that, but I suggest you actually go back and watch the games. He didnt get "constant" help. He got about the same amount of help any other teams LT's would get. And even if he did get slightly more help early on, go back and look at 1) the fact he was starting at LT for the first time ever and 2) who he was being expected to block early in the season. Every smart team in football would be doing the same things.

. He was decent. Then immediately after the season the Cowboys use the 9th overall pick on a player they project to take over for Free.

He was better than decent. And we dont know for sure if Smith was drafted to take over for Free. We do know we had a gaping hole at one T spot, and he was the best prospect in this draft regardless of whether he plays LT or RT. You keep acting like a stooge over this and believe Smith was only drafted because Free isnt good enough, when the fact is they drafted Smith because they needed to upgrade the talent on the OL in general and had a huge hole at one T spot.

Doesn't exactly scream confidence in the ability of their current LT. If you believe in that guy, you don't make that pick. You take the Jaguars' deal and move down. Get a RT later to pair up with him.

Thats absurd. They stayed put because they beleived the guy was head and shoulders better than anyone else at that position, and trading down compromised their chance to get him.

That's the real deal on Doug Free. This mega talent that needs to be resigned to a huge free agent deal we can all cry about in three years when we're digging for cap pennies to field a competitive team.

And again, who is saying he should be resigned at all costs? How the heck do you know what he is getting?