The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[yimyammer]

Yim your boy is getting beat up a little over last night.

Maybe not?

Some seem to think the press, etc dont like Vivek but real people do



165,000+ votes:

 

[Creeper]

Does anyone have a reliable source for a cliff notes explanation of what the prosecutor in NYC is claiming Trump did?

I dont have time to keep up with all this stuff but what I've gathered is she's claiming he overvalued real estate for a loan with a bank (that has since been paid off).

Is that really the crux of the case?

Ive been in the real estate business for 30 years and have taken out a lot of loans and in every single case, they dont give two shits what I think the property is worth. I could say I think my property is worth a billion and it would just be my opinion that means nothing to a lender and their underwriter. The 3rd part appraiser determines the value for the basis of the loan and then a deal is made relying on that appraisal. So unless Trump manipulated the appraiser/appraisal, there is no crime here and if thats the extent of the claim, this should never have gone to court in the first place.

Surely I'm mistaken?

Do you consider me a reliable source?

It seems to me the case has morphed recently. It started as a fraud case using a NY Law that does not require intent or damages to claim a lawsuit for fraud. I question the constitutionality of such a law. Apparently it also doesn't require a victim with regitimate standing to file the suit. Letitia James is suing Trump under this law because she claims he inflated or deflated the value of his assets when applying for loans and insurance. You are correct, banks do their own appraisals or they waive the appraisals if the credit worthiness of the borrower warrants a waiver. But the banks and insurance companies are not claiming they were defrauded. In fact, they have testified that Trump was a good customers who repaid all his loans on time. No bank has claimed they were harmed by Trump's transactions.

But recently, after questions were raised about damages, or lack of damages, James brought in a banking expert who claims that overvaluing Trump assets allowed him to get lower interest rates from the banks and Trump's benefit from these lower rates amounts to about $168 million. The banks are not claiming this though. There is some truth to this allegation. It is true the higher net worth of a borrower can get him lower interest rates. But again, the banks have not testified that this is what happened or that they were unaware of it.

But there are two problems with this. First, as you stated, banks do their own appraisals. I also worked in a large NYC bank in the commercial lending department. The fact is banks have a number of factors they consider when they determined the rate they give a customer and it is as much the credit rating of the borrower as it is anything else. These banks were doing business with Trump for years so he would have been a very good borrower for any bank and they would have set an established rate for him. But banks do not takes these loans lightly, they do their homework always. I credit officer at a bank would lose his job if he failed to do the proper analysis and the borrower defaulted on a loan.

Also, Trump included a disclaimer with his paperwork to the banks. The disclaimer admits his valuations could be different that those of the banks and it even says banks are free to do their own appraisals. Oddly, the judge refused to allow this disclaimer into evidence. It is true, disclaimers do not absolve an individual from negligence or intentional fraud, but no one has proven Trump defrauded anyone let alone intentionally. Trump in all likelihood did not even prepare the financial statements in question.

The AG and judge in this case are clearly biased and determined to railroad Trump. This case will get overturned eventually. I am still wondering what staning James has to even file a suit in the first place. There is no evidence the people of NY were harmed by any of Trump's transactions. The judge isn't even hiding his bias. He actually ruled on the outcome of this case before the trial! This is a judge who should not only be removed from the bench, he should be disbarred for violating his oath of office.

One final thought, overvaluing asset, especially property, is common. We saw it all the time when I was working in the lending area. We had a custoemr claim a warehouse full of coffee beans, put up as collateral, was worth millions of dollars but our appraiser found the beans in the warehouse has spoiled and were worthless. He had to put up something else as collateral to get the loan. This was not unusual.

 

[Creeper]

Come on now Creeper. Everyone knew DeSantis was going to run. Matter of fact, I'd bet we all hoped for a Trump DeSantis ticket and were a bit dissapointed when he decided to primary Trump. But DeSantis showed his ass early and often. I may not agree with Trump's methods but I do agree with his reasoning. DeSantis stabbed Trump in the back. That's just the reality of the situation and Trump started firing off shots. I don't blame him, although I may not agree with the way he did it.

What choice do we have but to at least vote? And people did staff (stake out) the drop boxes in AZ and were video taping any suspect activity. To the point where the left took these people to court to get them to vacate. But then they out-thought all of us and fucked with the machines. The fraud occurred right before our eyes and blatently out in the open. People are still takeing election commissions to court to release public documents for inspection and th left has been fighting them for the last 3 years. Voting is supposed to be transparent but the left leaning courts are covering for their treason.


What do you mean by "if Trump is so far ahead?" Do you think the numbers are off or someone is lying? What you should be asking is what are these people (primary candidates) doing? The only person who may have had a shot at beating Trump was DeSantis. If anything, the others should have backed out and made it a 2 person primary for the good of the party and country. But they didn't. And then DeSantis just kept shooting himself in the foot. He got poor advice and his instincts were even poorer to not take a different path/tact. He can't win by attacking Trump. Yet there he goes. Americans/Conservatives need a fighter. They don't need a Ryan/McConnell/Romney Republican which is exactly what DeSantis is.



Trump has done nothing but expose the corruption in DC. No one could take the amount of heat he's taking. No one. That's just a fact. That's why people like him. He's a fighter. And he's getting 20 plus percent of the black vote and a rising percentage of the Hispanic vote. The line of thought in the past was if a Republican could get a percentage of black voters in the low teens, he/she would win. Trump did much more than that and lost because of the fraud. You may not know it yet, but he's the only person that can energize people to vote in record numbers and draw minority groups into the Republican ranks. That's just the way it is.

I guess for me, Trump ran and lost in 2020 so that leaves the race open in 2024. If Trump was an incumbent I would understand the point. But Trump did not perform well in 2020 and neither did the candidates he endorsed. And the same was true in 2022. His hand picked Senate candidate in Pennsylvania lost to John Fetterman, a brain damaged bozo who can't speak or comprehend what he hears.

I like Trump. I voted for him twice. I am not a never Trumper. I just want to win in 2024. I think Republicans are going to get walloped again in 2024 and based on what we are seeing now, if Democrats win in 2024 it will be a green light for them to censor speech, take out guns, investigate and jail political opponents, and turn all our kids into mentally ill, geander confused zombies incapable of r rational thought.

The division in the Republican party is much worse in 2023 than it was in 2016 with the never Trumpers making a lot of noise. Also, I am concerned that MAGA and America First is really just about Trump, the man. It needs to be more than that. Even if Trump wins he will be ineligible to run again. Does America first die? Does MAGA die? It doesn't have to, but it will if Trump becomes synonymous with those ideals.

 

[Creeper]

I believe this to a point. But have you been to Florida? Yes, people have moved there by the boatloads. But the place has gotten way over-priced and expensive. I own property there and I go there often. It's unaffordable. And it will blow up. Mark my words. Florida's best selling point was that it was a better alternative than these leftist over-taxed states. But Florida is getting there.......

So it is DeSantis's fault that he made Florida such a popular place to live that real estate demand cause prices to rise? Florida will continue to be a popular place to move as long as other states charge residents ridiculous taxes. Florida is still a lot cheaper than NJ, NY or many other Democrat run states.

More importantly, Florida is a "free" state. They have not clamped down on speech, infringed on the 2nd amendment, and the have booted prosecutors who refuse to do their jobs or persecute political opposition. The cost of living is nothing compared to the cost of freedom.

 

[dbair1967]

But Trump did not perform well in 2020

This is not true.

 

[yimyammer]

Do you consider me a reliable source?

I like the way you think and you seem rational and guided by facts and evidence but that doesnt make you a source (no offense).

I'd like to see published documents I could read (or videos of testimony) and the specific law used by James to make her case

a NY Law that does not require intent or damages to claim a lawsuit for fraud...Apparently it also doesn't require a victim with regitimate standing to file the suit.

James brought in a banking expert who claims that overvaluing Trump assets allowed him to get lower interest rates from the banks and Trump's benefit from these lower rates amounts to about $168 million. The banks are not claiming this though.

Also, Trump included a disclaimer with his paperwork to the banks. The disclaimer admits his valuations could be different that those of the banks and it even says banks are free to do their own appraisals. Oddly, the judge refused to allow this disclaimer into evidence.

Was this paperwork & disclaimer made public so I could read it?

He actually ruled on the outcome of this case before the trial!

Where did you learn this? & how does a judge rule before a case goes to trial?

With deep fakes, etc getting so good, I dont know how we'll be able to ascertain the truth in the future

 

[dbair1967]

Tim Scott has dropped out of the race.

 

[Creeper]

I like the way you think and you seem rational and guided by facts and evidence but that doesnt make you a source (no offense).

I'd like to see published documents I could read (or videos of testimony) and the specific law used by James to make her case





Was this paperwork & disclaimer made public so I could read it?

Where did you learn this? & how does a judge rule before a case goes to trial?

With deep fakes, etc getting so good, I dont know how we'll be able to ascertain the truth in the future

Trump published the text of the disclaimer on Truth Social. Someone reposted it to Twitter. That's where I found it. The disclaimer is actually from Trump accounting firm which states that they did not verify Trump financial statements and are not to be construed as verified. While the statement does not absolve Trump of fraud, it does say that his statements have not been independently verified. This should tell the bank that his financial statement are only his word. Banks do not rely on the word of the borrower, ever.

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-defense-new-york-ag-fraud-lawsuit-2022-10?op=1

The judge gave Letitia James a Summary Judgement, which either side can ask for. It is rare in a case like this but Judge Engoron ruled that Trump was guilty of fraud and even ordered that all his NYS properties be put in receivership and his licenses revoked. Trump appealed this ruling and it was overturned, partially. The appellate court stayed the orders to put Trump's assets into receivership until after the trial.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/06/politics/donald-trump-judge-engoron/index.html

The thing to remember about this case is no one is claiming they were harmed financially. James is relying on a single bank expert, not even an employee of the banks Trump allegedly defrauded. This is unheard of.

Further, real estate experts have state that Engoron's valuations of Trump's properties are way off. 40 Wall St, for example was valued at about $175 million. This is an absurd valuation and a tiny bit of research will show it. For example, 111 Wall St sold for $175 million. That is just the building which had not been updates since the 1960s. The land under the building is leased but valued at about $225 million. That puts 111 Wall St at $400 million in 2019. 40 Wall St., one of Trump's properties is over 70 stories and was renovated by Trump. It sits in the middle of Wall St not far from the stock exchanges and is clearly more than double the value of 111 Wall St. So Letitia James is committing the same fraud she has charged Trump with by valuing the property at only $275 million just so she can sue Trump.

 

[yimyammer]

great stuff, thx amigo

I would have found it eventually via google (I hope) but you guys are so familiar with this stuff I figured y'all could save me some time

now I have to find time to read and digest

based on what I've learned thus far and you've corroborated, this case is unreal and whats even worse is no one seems to be concerned about it because its Trump

 

[dbair1967]

based on what I've learned thus far and you've corroborated, this case is unreal and whats even worse is no one seems to be concerned about it because its Trump

All of these "cases" are without warrant and part of a scheme that's been in place since election night 2016

Every one of these people involved should be disbarred & imprisoned, and a select few absolutely deserve to be executed as traitors to the Country and the Constitution.

 

[dbair1967]

These fucking idiots.

One of the easiest things to ever do and without any question for justification, and they fuck this up too.

Rino's are as bad as fucking Democrats. Honestly they might even be worse, because Dems don't try to hide what they are.

Failure Theater: Republicans Join With Democrats to Scuttle Impeachment of DHS Secretary Mayorkas

redstate.com

 

[Dodger12]

These fucking idiots.

One of the easiest things to ever do and without any question for justification, and they fuck this up too.

Rino's are as bad as fucking Democrats. Honestly they might even be worse, because Dems don't try to hide what they are.

The Republiucan Party must be purged of these RINO's. Anyone who doesn't think Mayorkas should be impeached is down right crazy. The guy has opened the borders and is not enforcing immigration laws. These people have flooded the country with illegals for the sole purpose of stealing votes, via fraud. The states will allow these people to have driver's licenses and then register them to vote. This would never happen in a true sovereign country that valued the security of their citizens.

 

[yimyammer]

 

[Creeper]

great stuff, thx amigo

I would have found it eventually via google (I hope) but you guys are so familiar with this stuff I figured y'all could save me some time

now I have to find time to read and digest

based on what I've learned thus far and you've corroborated, this case is unreal and whats even worse is no one seems to be concerned about it because its Trump

Yes, this is exactly the problem you state in your last sentence. Half the country encourages the DOJ and Democrat DAs to stretch the law to get Trump and his supporters. They cheer on lengthy, unfair sentences for J6 protesters. They root for corrupt DAs to prosecute Trump using laws they twist to give them new meaning. Do these people not realize these same practices, if they become normal conduct, will eventually come back to haunt them? Every case against Trump is legally unprecedented. But watch how the media covers these cases. The never provide the exculpatory evidence/testimony or even the objective legal analysis to show that Trump is being singled out for harassment by the government.

The Georgia case is just as bad. Using RICO laws to prosecute Trump and 18 other defendants for using legal maneuvering to correct what they thought were bogus results of the election there is almost criminal behaviors by the DA. They called Trump and his legal team a "criminal enterprise" for doing exactly what John Kennedy did in 1960.

 

[Creeper]

The Republiucan Party must be purged of these RINO's. Anyone who doesn't think Mayorkas should be impeached is down right crazy. The guy has opened the borders and is not enforcing immigration laws. These people have flooded the country with illegals for the sole purpose of stealing votes, via fraud. The states will allow these people to have driver's licenses and then register them to vote. This would never happen in a true sovereign country that valued the security of their citizens.

In 12 months we get to vote and impeach these clowns ourselves. This is why I am so disgusted with the division in the Republican party. If we lose next November, Mayorkas keep his job for another 4 years. So does Garland and all the corrupt DOJ and FBI employees. They will use their victory as a mandate to do even more damage to the constitution. Imagine the censorship they will enact. How about gun control. How about even more political prosecutions. Trump will be jail, along with his family and supporters. This is an election we cannot lose. The stakes are too high. We need to circle the wagons and unite the party behind the idea that our freedom is at stake, because it is. All the founding fathers did not agree on everything, but they agreed that liberty was more important than all their other petty arguments.

 

[yimyammer]

Yes, this is exactly the problem you state in your last sentence. Half the country encourages the DOJ and Democrat DAs to stretch the law to get Trump and his supporters. They cheer on lengthy, unfair sentences for J6 protesters. They root for corrupt DAs to prosecute Trump using laws they twist to give them new meaning. Do these people not realize these same practices, if they become normal conduct, will eventually come back to haunt them? Every case against Trump is legally unprecedented. But watch how the media covers these cases. The never provide the exculpatory evidence/testimony or even the objective legal analysis to show that Trump is being singled out for harassment by the government.

The Georgia case is just as bad. Using RICO laws to prosecute Trump and 18 other defendants for using legal maneuvering to correct what they thought were bogus results of the election there is almost criminal behaviors by the DA. They called Trump and his legal team a "criminal enterprise" for doing exactly what John Kennedy did in 1960.

what do you make of the two attorneys who cut a deal?

The "release the kraken" one is now saying she was never Trumps attorney (& vice versa) plus some younger one seems to be despondent in retrospect and racked with regret

I have no time to read much except headlines and one interview but its left me thinking WTF is going here?

How could the kraken lady not be Trumps attorney?

I saw a headline saying they were about to spill the beans or something

anyone have cliff notes of whats going with these two?

 

[Dodger12]

anyone have cliff notes of whats going with these two?

I did see that and I'll say this. When you are being overcharged in criminal court and may be facing (potentially) the rest of your life in prison, you have a choice. You can fight the BS charges, spend millions in legal fees and put your hands in a liberal leaning jury.....or you can take a plea deal that drops the charges to a misdeamenor with some probation. The average American who has everything to lose will take the latter. It's why Michael Flynn plead guilty, as the governement was going to go after his son and family and he was on tyhe brink of financial ruin.

The fact that these "serious" charges such as RICO were dropped down to misdemeanors for a plea deal tells me a lot.

 

[Creeper]

what do you make of the two attorneys who cut a deal?

The "release the kraken" one is now saying she was never Trumps attorney (& vice versa) plus some younger one seems to be despondent in retrospect and racked with regret

I have no time to read much except headlines and one interview but its left me thinking WTF is going here?

How could the kraken lady not be Trumps attorney?

I saw a headline saying they were about to spill the beans or something

anyone have cliff notes of whats going with these two?

Sydney Powell was not Trump's attorney. That was made clear at the time. Giuliani had Trump distance himself from her. But it is documented she was independent of Trump.

The attorneys who cut deal had no choice. Powell was facing years in prison and disbarment. She had no choice. But the fact is, she has nothing to say about Trump.

One of the things this DOJ has done is use threats of massive jail time to get defendants to cop a plea. In most cases defendants would not be so easy to turn. But look what the judges have been doing to J6 protesters. Powell had to believe she would be convicted in DC and given a very harsh sentence. In the end she pled guilty to some minor misdemeanors which will be expunged in 3 years. In return, she agreed to tell the truth. But she has already testified so her testimony has to be consistent with what she has said in the past.

Make no mistake, all of these cases are political and the Democrats have managed to get Trump hating judges on every case except the one in Miami. But remember, that case was originally set in DC too. It was only after the media started raising questions about jurisdiction did Jack Smith quickly convene a grand jury in Miami to get an indictment there. The problem is, he could not get a Trump hating judge in Miami.

All these cases are rigged. Now Trump has filed for a mistrial in the NY case because of egregious errors the judge has made. Normally, I would think he has a strong case for dismissal and certainly a mistrial, but this is NY, and it is corrupt, so my guess is he won't get a mistrial. He will have to appeal and some of these cases will go to the Supreme Court eventually, but not before he is convicted multiple times.

Remember, Jack Smith prosecuted Virginia governor Bob McDonnell and convicted him of bribery. The Supreme Court eventually overturned the case saying this: “there is no doubt that this case is distasteful; it may be worse than that. But our concern is not with tawdry tales of Ferraris, Rolexes, and ball gowns. It is instead with the broader legal implications of the Government’s boundless interpretation of the federal bribery statute.” and , “the uncontrolled power of criminal prosecutors is a threat to our separation of powers.” This was an 8-0 decision by the court.

The same thing is happening with Trump. But McDonnell racked up $27 million in legal bills and was no longer governor of Virginia. This is the goal of the Democrats with Trump.

 

[VTA]

Powell was facing years in prison and disbarment

For what charges?

 

[yimyammer]

How can you not love this guy?