The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[peplaw06]

Because you don't trust Trump, I guess?

I don't see how anyone could trust him. If that's all it takes to sound like Glenn Beck, then I'd guess 60-70% of people sound like Glenn Beck.

 

[Doomsday]

Trump hasn't given any rational person who's paying attention, any valid reason to trust him at all. But then of course, Hillary's even less trustworthy. Ironically, the only person in the final weeks of the race who wasn't just a outright liar and charlatan was Sanders. He's at least honest about his intentions and what he is.

Trump has a LOT of work to do to get my vote. Starting with dumping this idiotic idea of rounding up and deporting "11 million illegals." Oh and then being honest about his "wall," - Mexico won't be paying for it, we consumers here in the US will since the only way trump has proposed getting Mexico to "pay" for it involves tariffs on imported goods from Mexico. If you have a brain you know that means the US consumer actually pays.

Plus, each and every other proposal he's put forth involves just good ole more tax and spend big government. We'll get that in spades with Hillary for sure.

 

[peplaw06]

Totally agree Dooms... on really everything. I would just add that I don't think he's serious about building a wall. That's just looney tunes, but he thinks he got his momentum with that idea, so he keeps parroting it.

There were some reports of an off-the-record tape with the NY Times or Washington Post or something where he said he would back off the demand for a wall, and was using it for negotiation purposes. Which if so, that's good I guess, that he's not actually wanting to do that... but it just makes him less credible. It's literally been the biggest substantive idea of his platform, and he's not that married to it? Brings into question everything else he says he's going to do.

 

[Doomsday]

Trump hasn't given any rational person who's paying attention, any valid reason to trust him at all.

As I typed this today, Rosanne Barr endorsed Trump. Case rested.

 

[Doomsday]

Totally agree Dooms... on really everything. I would just add that I don't think he's serious about building a wall. That's just looney tunes, but he thinks he got his momentum with that idea, so he keeps parroting it.

There were some reports of an off-the-record tape with the NY Times or Washington Post or something where he said he would back off the demand for a wall, and was using it for negotiation purposes. Which if so, that's good I guess, that he's not actually wanting to do that... but it just makes him less credible. It's literally been the biggest substantive idea of his platform, and he's not that married to it? Brings into question everything else he says he's going to do.

Yup.

When you're waffling on your banner issue, it makes rational people question the rest of it.

The deal is, I WANT Trump to earn my vote. I WANT someone to go in there and shatter the status quo and shake Washington right the fuck up. And I WANT to keep Hillary out of there.

I understand the appeal of Trump. But he's the amiable drunk in the bar - he says some things you laugh at, some things you scoff at, and some things every now and then that make you think. BUT.... nobody rational or in their right mind is really gonna give him the keys to their car and let him drive them home.

I'm not even sure the bastard is sane.

 

[jnday]

Trump hasn't given any rational person who's paying attention, any valid reason to trust him at all. But then of course, Hillary's even less trustworthy. Ironically, the only person in the final weeks of the race who wasn't just a outright liar and charlatan was Sanders. He's at least honest about his intentions and what he is.

Trump has a LOT of work to do to get my vote. Starting with dumping this idiotic idea of rounding up and deporting "11 million illegals." Oh and then being honest about his "wall," - Mexico won't be paying for it, we consumers here in the US will since the only way trump has proposed getting Mexico to "pay" for it involves tariffs on imported goods from Mexico. If you have a brain you know that means the US consumer actually pays.

Plus, each and every other proposal he's put forth involves just good ole more tax and spend big government. We'll get that in spades with Hillary for sure.

I suppirt him for wanting to get rid of the illegals. The first thing they did on American soil was to break our laws. I want a wall, I want them deported, and I want Mexico to stop encouraging these people to illegally enter the US. Mexico has a wall on their southern border, but they accuse the US of being racist for wanting a wall on our border. Mexico is not very friendly to an American that is illegally in their country. It is time to cut these leeches loose from draining this country. Trump can't do everything he has promised, but I do think he will make an effort which is more than any other oolitician.

 

[jnday]

Yup.

When you're waffling on your banner issue, it makes rational people question the rest of it.

The deal is, I WANT Trump to earn my vote. I WANT someone to go in there and shatter the status quo and shake Washington right the fuck up. And I WANT to keep Hillary out of there.

I understand the appeal of Trump. But he's the amiable drunk in the bar - he says some things you laugh at, some things you scoff at, and some things every now and then that make you think. BUT.... nobody rational or in their right mind is really gonna give him the keys to their car and let him drive them home.

I'm not even sure the bastard is sane.

At least he is not a Washington insider politician. He is also a businessman. Do we really need more scum bag lawyers in office. Reagan went through much of the same bashing from the media and he was the best president in my lifetime. Trump has his faults, but he is not a wicked, evil, power hungry bitch like Hillary. That is the best reason to vote for him.

 

[Doomsday]

I suppirt him for wanting to get rid of the illegals. The first thing they did on American soil was to break our laws. I want a wall, I want them deported, and I want Mexico to stop encouraging these people to illegally enter the US. Mexico has a wall on their southern border, but they accuse the US of being racist for wanting a wall on our border. Mexico is not very friendly to an American that is illegally in their country. It is time to cut these leeches loose from draining this country. Trump can't do everything he has promised, but I do think he will make an effort which is more than any other oolitician.

You might have seen the little Texas Latina Valedictorian addressing her class this week, and admitting she was "one of the 11 million illegals." Her parents brought her here in 2005 where they entered the country legally, and immediately applied for citizenship. They are still waiting. We have to FIX THIS if we want the best and brightest coming here. We are NOT going to round up and deport 11 million people. It's stupid to even think for a minute we would ever do that, that is NOT who we are.

At least he is not a Washington insider politician. He is also a businessman. Do we really need more scum bag lawyers in office. Reagan went through much of the same bashing from the media and he was the best president in my lifetime. Trump has his faults, but he is not a wicked, evil, power hungry bitch like Hillary. That is the best reason to vote for him.

Yep I was going to add that everything they say about trump - he's a loose cannon, used to be a Democrat, doesn't have the temperament, other countries are worried, etc and so on is the exact same playbook they used against Reagan. But one, Trump is NO Reagan or even anything close, and two, Ronnie wasn't a ego-maniacal idiot like Trump is, and therefore didn't give them all the low hanging fruit free ammunition Trump delivers them daily. If you're too dumb or too ego-maniacal to keep from shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly, how the hell can you be trusted as Commander in Chief?

he (Reagan) was the best president in my lifetime.

And yet gave you two all-time record tax increases, tripled the size and scope of Government, and skyrocketed the debt. Granted, he chose to fight communism rather than the democrat controlled congress, gave them what they wanted so long as they gave him what he wanted, but still. The record is the record no matter the rationale for it. I don't rate Reagan that highly as far as sticking to his campaign promise of smaller government, less debt and other conservative fiscal values he preached, and sold to us. He clearly broke those promises. That's reality.

"At least he's not Hillary" by itself doesn't wash, as far as getting rational, thoughtful vote.

 

[Sheik]

Thanks, Pep, for answering my original question.

You're coming from pretty much the same place I would be coming from if Rubio or Bush would have been the nominee. So I get it.

As for my Beck comment, it was tongue in cheek. Beck is a lunatic that thinks Trump is seriously the second coming of Adolph Hitler. Basically saying that Trump is worse than Hillary could ever be.

I disagree of course. I don't think the effects of Hillary and the liberal agenda for even four more years will ever be wiped away. Not once you get a few more liberals on the Supreme Court. Buh bye gun rights, hello amnesty for all.

No going back after that. Liberal democrats will win every election from here on out. Immigrants vote like 7 out of 10 for democrats. Add another 11-12 million illegals into the voting population and it's over.

Like I said, I get it, I'd be in your shoes now if it were Bush or Rubio up against Hillary.

 

[Sheik]

I had to hate that post because of all the BS immigration stuff, Dooms.

I don't give a shit if Mexico is churning out MENSA candidates on the daily, we cannot afford the worlds poor and hungry.

When is this country going to wake up and realize that all it's problems stem from illegal immigration? There needs to be a freeze on even legal immigration until the problems get sorted out. If that takes 10, 20, or 30 years, so be it.

It's a sweet story that a young valedictorian admitted that she's an illegal, good for her. You think it's ok she's taking an opportunity from a legal citizen of this country if she's getting a scholarship somewhere? I don't. In fact, lucky for her, she has no worry of being deported because the laws aren't enforced.

Any time a teacher gave to that student, it took away from a child that otherwise would have maybe gotten the extra attention it needed. So what do we have now? An illegal immigrant with a future, and a legal American child left behind, potentially?

Not sure how that is okay by anybody.

 

[Doomsday]

I had to hate that post because of all the BS immigration stuff, Dooms.

I don't give a shit if Mexico is churning out MENSA candidates on the daily, we cannot afford the worlds poor and hungry.

When is this country going to wake up and realize that all it's problems stem from illegal immigration? There needs to be a freeze on even legal immigration until the problems get sorted out. If that takes 10, 20, or 30 years, so be it.

It's a sweet story that a young valedictorian admitted that she's an illegal, good for her. You think it's ok she's taking an opportunity from a legal citizen of this country if she's getting a scholarship somewhere? I don't. In fact, lucky for her, she has no worry of being deported because the laws aren't enforced.

Any time a teacher gave to that student, it took away from a child that otherwise would have maybe gotten the extra attention it needed. So what do we have now? An illegal immigrant with a future, and a legal American child left behind, potentially?

Not sure how that is okay by anybody.

First of all it really doesn't make a shit that the girl hasn't gotten her citizenship application looked at - she was brought here by her mother, she had no choice in the matter. They came in legally, applied for citizenship, and have been ignored. Would you have them just wait in a drunk tank? Have teachers say "Sorry little girl, until you have your citizenship verified we can't spend any time on you." Really?

We need to fix our LEGAL immigration system so it doesn't take ten fucking years and 50 thousand dollars to become a citizen, I am sure all agree. It shouldn't take long to actually fix it either.

 

[Doomsday]

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

All of this country's problems come from illegal immigration? Really, all of them? How can you say that, Sheik?

 

[Sheik]

All of this country's problems come from illegal immigration? Really, all of them? How can you say that, Sheik?

Poor choice of words.

I can list what I believe Illegal immigration effects.

1. In california alone, it's estimated that the underground economy is in excess of $100 billion yearly. That's untaxed income, lots of that money goes back to Mexico.

2. It burdens our schools and social programs that are meant to be in place for American citizens. When an illegal shits out a baby, that baby is now our problem, tax payers problem.

3. In most cases, illegals are not coming in here and assimilating to our culture, they are bringing theirs. Sad but true, but in a lot of cultures, incest, honor killings, gang rape. Who knows how many Americans are subject to those violent activities? Would anyone argue that one case is too many?

4. National Security. When people can come here on VISAS and have them expire, and there's no way to really track that person, and said person ends up blowing up a nursery full of children, or shooting up a church etc, I'd argue that our immigration policies are broken.

Immigration should benefit the people of this country, not burden us. There should be a higher standard in place that ensures that every immigrant that arrives here is instantly a productive citizen.

That's my opinion. I apologize for making such a matter of fact statement.

 

[Sheik]

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

There was a time when that was possible.

We can't even take care of our own people anymore. Especially the very people we promised we would take care of. The ones who fought and in some cases gave more than any of us will ever know.

I'm pretty sure that little declaration wasn't meant as an invitation to criminals to waddle their ass across the border 8 months pregnant and shit out a meal ticket on our soil.

 

[Sheik]

Any Black men on this website? How do you(Black peeps) feel about the way this country has bent themselves over for illegal immigrants, basically giving to them what, imo, they owe to black people because of this little thing called "slavery"?

 

[Dodger12]

I can list what I believe Illegal immigration effects.

1. In california alone, it's estimated that the underground economy is in excess of $100 billion yearly. That's untaxed income, lots of that money goes back to Mexico.

2. It burdens our schools and social programs that are meant to be in place for American citizens. When an illegal shits out a baby, that baby is now our problem, tax payers problem.

3. In most cases, illegals are not coming in here and assimilating to our culture, they are bringing theirs. Sad but true, but in a lot of cultures, incest, honor killings, gang rape. Who knows how many Americans are subject to those violent activities? Would anyone argue that one case is too many?

4. National Security. When people can come here on VISAS and have them expire, and there's no way to really track that person, and said person ends up blowing up a nursery full of children, or shooting up a church etc, I'd argue that our immigration policies are broken.

Immigration should benefit the people of this country, not burden us. There should be a higher standard in place that ensures that every immigrant that arrives here is instantly a productive citizen.

That's my opinion. I apologize for making such a matter of fact statement.

Absolutely spot on Sheik.

There was a time when immigrants had to be "sponsored" to come here. That was the case with my family. When they became US citizens they then sponsored others. They brought over family members, gave them jobs, housing, etc. and these folks ended up being business people and adding to the fabric of society. But, most importantly, they became Americans and assimilated. In addition, when some folks who were sponsored didn't think they could cut it, as there were no government handouts, free government housing, etc., they returned to their homeland.

Today, it's all about the handouts. We bend over backwards to give these folks entitlements and the Dems would like to make these folks voters knowing that they would overwhelmingly vote Democrat. It's just absolutely insane that anyone would support voting rights for these people. I just can't fathom it.

Another odd thing was when the US was giving work visa to people from Middle Eastern countries (ie: Egypt). These visas were acquired in a visa lottery. The first thing I noticed was that these folks were not assimilating. They didn't give a shit about the country, it's values and it's laws. And why have a visa lottery for people from the most volatile region in the world. It didn't make sense then and it still doesn't today.

The system is broken. I've seen immigrants that work hard, save money, start businesses and try to bring over immediate family members and the legal process takes years and an incredible amount of legal fees. In other words, folks that try to work within the legal framework of the system and do things the right way get penalized. It makes no sense. It just seems that we want people dependent on the state for their every need.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I'm with you guys on all that. I just think like Dooms said, we need to clean up our immigration process. Not that everyone gets to come here and immediately get on welfare, of course. But that we need to find a way to streamline the ones who we think will be good citizens.

The assimilation part that you guys mention is IMO a huge problem, but I don't even know if that's a procedural problem that a president can fix so much as a cultural one -- an American cultural one, I mean. From what I observe, young Americans are basically being taught that this country sucks, it's nothing but a cesspool of greed and discrimination and in no way something to be proud of. So when people have that attitude, they don't see the point in teaching immigrants why they should be proud to be an American. If I were a jon88 I'd think these attitudes were orchestrated, but I don't know if I'm quite to that point yet.

Anyway, I think Trump could be good for business, for getting people jobs, for bringing some real-world experience into the White House, and for hopefully cleaning up some of the extreme waste we see in our massive bureaucracy. The Mexican immigration part would be down the list for me. (The Syrian refugees are a whole 'nother story.)

I just wish he could be rational Donald and not the one who too often shows his wild-ass crazy side.

 

[Dodger12]

The assimilation part that you guys mention is IMO a huge problem, but I don't even know if that's a procedural problem that a president can fix so much as a cultural one -- an American cultural one, I mean. From what I observe, young Americans are basically being taught that this country sucks, it's nothing but a cesspool of greed and discrimination and in no way something to be proud of. So when people have that attitude, they don't see the point in teaching immigrants why they should be proud to be an American. If I were a jon88 I'd think these attitudes were orchestrated, but I don't know if I'm quite to that point yet.

I think it can be fixed. US Citizenship was something to strive for and to be proud of once you've gotten it. Today, there's no reason to reach that goal. As a matter of fact, you gain nothing by becoming an American Citizen. You have everything you need: housing, healthcare, education, welfare, a driver's license, and Lord knows what else. I mean, some idiots want to allow them to vote as well.

These young kids that are all anti-American are in for a rude awakening. At some point, they'll have to fend for themselves. They'll learn very quickly that they won't be entitled to the same things that other folks are by nature of their nationality, ethnicity and illegal status among other things. As they get older, they won't be part of the voting block that Dems are targeting.

I wasn't a huge supporter of Trump in the beginning. Even now the guy has some flaws that could very well be fatal to his campaign. But I do agree that countries like Mexico are laughing at us. Go to other countries and do what these turds do here. Go to other countries and burn their flag and wave the American flag. Go to these other countries and demand free health care, education, welfare and other entitlements. They throw your sorry ass in a prison where you'll be housed in a cage with dozens of other inmates, be given rotten and spoiled food and no access to legal counsel.

After 8 years of this scumbag President, I firmly believe he hates America. I firmly believe that he wants the country to fail. I firmly believe that he wants to undermine our Christian values....those same values that respected other cultures and religions that allowed for immigrants to be accepted and provided a free environment for them to succeed. Immigrants succeeded in the past through hard work and free market enterprise. Today, they're a winner by just simply making it across the border to our side.

 

[VTA]

Any Black men on this website? How do you(Black peeps) feel about the way this country has bent themselves over for illegal immigrants, basically giving to them what, imo, they owe to black people because of this little thing called "slavery"?

The U.S. doesn't owe anyone shit. Less than 10% of the world slave trade came to the U.S. and it was 'whitey' that fought for it's abolition. Not Latin America which took in over 90% and certainly not Africans. Sorry for the OT, but it's not a good argument against Mexican Illegal Immigration. Every public figure commenting on it claiming 'for or against' is full of hot shit, including Trump.

You know this by the absence of certain truths in their arguments:

A Patel, easily browner than a Mexican and even some blacks can come here legally from the opposite end of the planet, get any number of jobs ranging from gas station attendant to a CFO of a major pharma agency and nary a racist eye is batted. Nobody gives a shit. Yet someone sharing a border with the richest nation can't get it done correctly. Why wouldn't Trump or any other public figure opening their filthy mouths on the subject point this out?

BECAUSE THEY DON"T GIVE A SHIT AND THEY ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.