The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[Creeper]

Our judicial system has turned into a complete sham, just like this everything else with this current regime and weaponized DOJ

It is important to remember that prior to May 2022 NY had a statute of limitations of 20 years for the allegations Carroll made against Trump. In other words, she could not file her lawsuits because her allegations were more than 20 years in the past. NY State then passed a law which removed the statute of limitations specifically for the allegations Carroll made against Trump for a period of 1 year. What this means is no one can file such a claim again because the law expired! The day the law became effective Carroll filed her lawsuit.

Keep in mind, Carroll cannot remember the exact date, or year, when this alleged assault too place. If NY had extended the statute of limitations for another 10 years, her suit would have been tossed because she was unable to provide an accurate timeframe.

Also keep in mind, Carroll accused several other mean of rape, 4 or 5 of them. At least one more recent that the alleged Trump attack. She sued none of them.

This case is a sham which never should have been tried. An unbiased judge would have tossed this case out almost immediately. I am sure Trump will appeal, but if he does he should challenge the law and the way it was implemented. The law very well could be unconstitutional. A case like this after 20 years is almost certainly not going to have evidence. It can only involve feelings.

As I said many times before, Trump needs better lawyers. People like Alina Habba but I think she is not a very good attorney. Yesterday, one of Trump previous attorneys was on TV and said Trump was not represented well by Habba in his lawsuit. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered because of the bias of the judge, but I do think attorneys matter a lot in court cases heard by juries.

 

[Creeper]

This is a must read.

https://amac.us/newsline/society/tw...overs-plot-to-stop-trump-democracy-be-damned/

Matt Taibbi has been one of the best reporters of late finding truth where no one else wants to look. In this case he reports that a Democrat organization ran a simulation in 2020 where Trump won the election, then claimed protesters were insurrectionists when they challenged the election results. What an astonishing coincidence! In 2021 after Biden won, Trump supporters protested and were labeled insurrectionists by Democrats! To me this prove the entire J6 narrative is another Democrat hoax.

 

[dbair1967]

It is important to remember that prior to May 2022 NY had a statute of limitations of 20 years for the allegations Carroll made against Trump. In other words, she could not file her lawsuits because her allegations were more than 20 years in the past. NY State then passed a law which removed the statute of limitations specifically for the allegations Carroll made against Trump for a period of 1 year. What this means is no one can file such a claim again because the law expired! The day the law became effective Carroll filed her lawsuit.

Keep in mind, Carroll cannot remember the exact date, or year, when this alleged assault too place. If NY had extended the statute of limitations for another 10 years, her suit would have been tossed because she was unable to provide an accurate timeframe.

Also keep in mind, Carroll accused several other mean of rape, 4 or 5 of them. At least one more recent that the alleged Trump attack. She sued none of them.

This case is a sham which never should have been tried. An unbiased judge would have tossed this case out almost immediately. I am sure Trump will appeal, but if he does he should challenge the law and the way it was implemented. The law very well could be unconstitutional. A case like this after 20 years is almost certainly not going to have evidence. It can only involve feelings.

As I said many times before, Trump needs better lawyers. People like Alina Habba but I think she is not a very good attorney. Yesterday, one of Trump previous attorneys was on TV and said Trump was not represented well by Habba in his lawsuit. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered because of the bias of the judge, but I do think attorneys matter a lot in court cases heard by juries.

Basically the skank hag is 1000% lying and is 100% supported and financed by the Democraps

 

[dbair1967]

This is a must read.

https://amac.us/newsline/society/tw...overs-plot-to-stop-trump-democracy-be-damned/

Matt Taibbi has been one of the best reporters of late finding truth where no one else wants to look. In this case he reports that a Democrat organization ran a simulation in 2020 where Trump won the election, then claimed protesters were insurrectionists when they challenged the election results. What an astonishing coincidence! In 2021 after Biden won, Trump supporters protested and were labeled insurrectionists by Democrats! To me this prove the entire J6 narrative is another Democrat hoax.

Good read.

But I already knew it was a hoax.

 

[yimyammer]

For those keeping up with the indictment of trump related to election interference, how would you weigh and counter this testimony from a republican who supported trump:

 

[Dodger12]

For those keeping up with the indictment of trump related to election interference, how would you weigh and counter this testimony from a republican who supported trump:

Rusty Bowers was primaried and voted out of office in AZ. He's a state lawmaker whose job it was to investigate allegations of voter fraud. He failed miserably.

To be honest, I didn't listen to the whole interview because he disgusts me. When a state lawmaker whose job it is to ensure a fair and accuare election counting asks the federal governement to show him evidence of fraud, he's an idiot. In other words, he was asking Trump and his team to show him evidence that he should provide. At the very least, investigate or call for an investigation. He failed the people of Arizona and fought efforts to audit the vote. He's just a RINO.

And I'll say this....look up his name on Google and you'll find one sided reporting making him out to be some kind of hero. There's a reason he lost in the primary. Had AZ really turned blue and most people voted for Biden, then why would this bum lose in a primary, no less?

 

[Dodger12]

By the same token, why isn't the below testimony posted earlier by dbair getting any traction? 130,000 bad votes in a state the size of Nevada? I mean, WTF? State legislatures must do their job. As it stands now, a large number of Americans have no faith in our elections...and for good reason. Rusty Bowers is a coward and failed the people of AZ and they paid the price again in 2022.

 

[yimyammer]

Rusty Bowers was primaried and voted out of office in AZ. He's a state lawmaker whose job it was to investigate allegations of voter fraud. He failed miserably.

To be honest, I didn't listen to the whole interview because he disgusts me. When a state lawmaker whose job it is to ensure a fair and accuare election counting asks the federal governement to show him evidence of fraud, he's an idiot. In other words, he was asking Trump and his team to show him evidence that he should provide. At the very least, investigate or call for an investigation. He failed the people of Arizona and fought efforts to audit the vote. He's just a RINO.

And I'll say this....look up his name on Google and you'll find one sided reporting making him out to be some kind of hero. There's a reason he lost in the primary. Had AZ really turned blue and most people voted for Biden, then why would this bum lose in a primary, no less?

Trump and/or Rudy were the ones making the claims, why is it out of line to ask for the evidence they supposedly had but never submitted? He didnt strike me like so many smarmy politicians do and seemed reasonable in his responses but thats just my surface section to how he spoke, what he said and his body language

its getting pretty hard to convince me all this obvious fraud took place when Republicans in charge of elections or judges appointed by Republicans (like the Nevada claims you mentioned) dont find the evidence credible.

I dont know who is right, I'll gladly go wherever the evidence takes me but there needs to be actual evidence that is reliable, believable and has merit not just endless shouting about fraud

What reliable, unbiased evidence do you have that can be proven and verified?

I know for a fact mail-in ballots were abused by people voting on someone else's behalf, I know this because I know someone that was taking care of someone who was completely unable to take care of herself and barely knew which day it is and who she was speaking to much less who to vote for but she voted for Trump because the person in her care voted for Trump and had control over her vote.

No doubt this happened on both sides but how can we ever prove the volume of fraud and whether the net difference could have changed the result?

Im trying to strip off all the extreme bias I see from both sides and just get as close as I can to the actual provable facts

 

[Dodger12]

Trump and/or Rudy were the ones making the claims, why is it out of line to ask for the evidence they supposedly had but never submitted? He didnt strike me like so many smarmy politicians do and seemed reasonable in his responses but thats just my surface section to how he spoke, what he said and his body language

its getting pretty hard to convince me all this obvious fraud took place when Republicans in charge of elections or judges appointed by Republicans (like the Nevada claims you mentioned) dont find the evidence credible.

I dont know who is right, I'll gladly go wherever the evidence takes me but there needs to be actual evidence that is reliable, believable and has merit not just endless shouting about fraud

What reliable, unbiased evidence do you have that can be proven and verified?

I know for a fact mail-in ballots were abused by people voting on someone else's behalf, I know this because I know someone that was taking care of someone who was completely unable to take care of herself and barely knew which day it is and who she was speaking to much less who to vote for but she voted for Trump because the person in her care voted for Trump and had control over her vote.

No doubt this happened on both sides but how can we ever prove the volume of fraud and whether the net difference could have changed the result?

Im trying to strip off all the extreme bias I see from both sides and just get as close as I can to the actual provable facts

There were enough anomolies and question marks, even to the blind eye, that an immediate investigation should be conducted. It's not for the citizen to prove fraud. It's like I'm supposed to beleive OJ didn't kill those people. I know better.

In any event, the current voting system is set up to introduce fraud. If you need "evidence" then there's very little I can say as a normal citizen to convince you and others otherwise. Election fraud was proven in Brideport, CT and a local election was overturned but I guess I'm supposed to believe it was an isolated incident. Thousands of election workers filed affidavits attesting to what they saw on election day. In addition, the very fact that you know someone who is/was a victim of mail in ballot fraud and then turn around and want evicence is kind of contradictory. Unless, of course, you believe the only victim of that type of fraud was your friend.

 

[Dodger12]

No doubt this happened on both sides but how can we ever prove the volume of fraud and whether the net difference could have changed the result?

This should have no bearing on anything. If fraud was committed, the syetem needs to change. We should not accept any level of fraud and the needle of whether or not it affected the election shouldn't be the deciding factor to initiate an investigation or legitimate audit because that's just an arbitrary judgement. No one can know for sure if the election was swayed because of fraud without looking into the extent of the fraud.

 

[Creeper]

For those keeping up with the indictment of trump related to election interference, how would you weigh and counter this testimony from a republican who supported trump:

First, Bowers himself used the words, "legal theory". This is critical because it is absolutely legal theory based on actions in the 1960 presidential election, that state can appoint alternate sets of electors, as states have done in the past. This is not criminal. Trump's team was only asking for alternate electors while they litigated legal challenges in the courts. Again, this is exactly what happened in 1960, and defendants in Georgia have testified that they modeled what they were doing after what was done in Hawaii in the past.

This video is clearly edited to give a particular point of view and omit some key details. The fact is, Trump did challenge election results in Arizona, as he had done in Michigan and Georgia.

Jack Smith indicted Trump claiming Trump lied when he told state officials that the election was rigged. It was an opinion based on many media reports at the time. This PBS hit piece ignores a lot of the reporting at the time.

Having said that, I have said from the beginning Giuliani and others did Trump no favors with their promise of evidence that they could not have possibly had at the time. Release the Kraken was a joke and made a mockery of legitimate challenges to the election results in certain polling places. When Trump sued to stop the certification there was no chance he would succeed. No judge is going to stop an election from being certified without concrete evidence to support his judgement. Promises by Rudy and others were not enough.

What Trump should have sued for is access to the evidence. This would take a long time but without access to the records right then and there, making the case for fraud would only get more difficult with time. Look at the amount of evidence destroyed in Georgia at this point.

My warning is, we had better stop litigating these cases in the media, social and mainstream, because it is destroying our system of justice. Trump, and others, can't get a fair trial anymore because jurors have all been tainted by what they see and hear. Now we have jurors lying to get on juries just so they can render verdicts they decided long before the cases were tried.

 

[Creeper]

By the same token, why isn't the below testimony posted earlier by dbair getting any traction? 130,000 bad votes in a state the size of Nevada? I mean, WTF? State legislatures must do their job. As it stands now, a large number of Americans have no faith in our elections...and for good reason. Rusty Bowers is a coward and failed the people of AZ and they paid the price again in 2022.

Absolutely. When people ask me do I think Trump won in 2020 my answer is always the same. "I don't know. I don't know that Biden won either." The fact is I have no confidence in the election for 2 reasons. First, there is a lot of evidence that has been reported that strongly implies there was funny business in that election. The reports from Georgia, for example, that poll workers witnessed 150,000 ballots that appeared to be copies and only have votes for the presidential election marked. The ballots were allegedly unfolded which would not be possible if they were legitimate mail-in ballots. Then in Michigan there was the case of the woman who dumped thousands for fraudulent registrations into the system. She was caught but the investigation was hushed up and buried until last year. Which brings me to my second reason I am unsure of 2020. The coverup. Democrats fought every attempt to investigate the election in key states. To this day they are still withholding information and fighting in the courts to stop investigations. The media races to refute every new bit of evidence that comes out, sometimes using clownish logic to make their case. The energy they are expending to ensure there is no investigation, no remedial actions enacted, and to silence critics just makes me more suspicious. They are trying to make it illegal to question lection results. They protest too much.

 

[yimyammer]

If you need "evidence" then there's very little I can say as a normal citizen to convince you and others otherwise.

WAT?!!?

Of course I need evidence because I'm not just going to go along with whatever mob is claiming the truth to be at any given moment, especially when it comes to politics where people are so insanely partisan and tribal so if someone like yourself makes an absolute claim of voter fraud, it should be easy to show me why you're so certain, I'm not simply going to take your word (or anyone elses) for it nor would I expect anyone to do so with any claim I may make. You dont strike me as irrational so I am going to assume you mis-typed and didnt mean what you said about "evidence".

I'm being straight up when I say I dont have time to follow all this crap to a depth required to come away convinced of any particular point of view with confidence so I like asking people like yourself who seem certain of their viewpoints how they arrived at their conclusions and what evidence they can pass along. I do the same thing with opposing points of view like people who claim the election was up and up by asking them why they would ever implicitly trust anything the government does as well as asking why shouldn't an election be question by doubters? what are you so afraid of that you belief all discussion on the matter is settled and shouldn't be questioned?

Im not here to argue with you or anyone, I want to sincerely take in various viewpoints that are compelling with strong evidence to support their claim in order to solidify where I stand not to try and win some pointless internet argument.

Additionally, we all have bias, so I am trying to not let mine cloud my judgement. My bias is an extreme disdain and disgust for just about everything Democrat but that doesnt mean I consider myself a republican or am rooting for them as my team so hearing competing views on a particular views has a way of separating the wheat from the chaff for me, so please pass along anything you think is convincing to support your point.

I brought up my example of voter fraud to confirm I agree that it has occurred on some level but I dont have a way of knowing the extent or to whom it benefitted because in my example the fraud benefitted Trump which is contrary to what you and most claim about voter fraud in that it benefited Biden.

 

[yimyammer]

This should have no bearing on anything. If fraud was committed, the syetem needs to change. We should not accept any level of fraud and the needle of whether or not it affected the election shouldn't be the deciding factor to initiate an investigation or legitimate audit because that's just an arbitrary judgement. No one can know for sure if the election was swayed because of fraud without looking into the extent of the fraud.

thats not my point and I wasn't implying or saying the election shouldn't be evaluated for fraud whether big or small, I was inferring the point you're making that a way of identifying, measuring and ending voter fraud wherever it exists should be SOP. Primarily I was trying to convey that I personally cant conclude the election was stolen without knowing that the net fraud would have given Trump the win which is a different discussion than how to prevent voter fraud.

I use my example of voter fraud a lot with rabid Democrats because they lose their mind and start thinking I'm a conspiratorial wacko. After they've gone off on a rant on how they cant believe I'm a trumper who believes the election was stolen, I ask what gave you that idea? They repeat my example to me saying someone cheated and voted for Biden and thats when I spring the trap and tell them I dint say it was a vote for Biden but a vote for Trump. Then I ask if they're still against finding out whether there was voter fraud and closing any loopholes where it can occur because of low security methods like mail in ballots.

Its usually crickets at this point or they think I made it up

 

[yimyammer]

First, Bowers himself used the words, "legal theory". This is critical because it is absolutely legal theory based on actions in the 1960 presidential election, that state can appoint alternate sets of electors, as states have done in the past. This is not criminal. Trump's team was only asking for alternate electors while they litigated legal challenges in the courts. Again, this is exactly what happened in 1960, and defendants in Georgia have testified that they modeled what they were doing after what was done in Hawaii in the past.

This video is clearly edited to give a particular point of view and omit some key details. The fact is, Trump did challenge election results in Arizona, as he had done in Michigan and Georgia.

Jack Smith indicted Trump claiming Trump lied when he told state officials that the election was rigged. It was an opinion based on many media reports at the time. This PBS hit piece ignores a lot of the reporting at the time.

Having said that, I have said from the beginning Giuliani and others did Trump no favors with their promise of evidence that they could not have possibly had at the time. Release the Kraken was a joke and made a mockery of legitimate challenges to the election results in certain polling places. When Trump sued to stop the certification there was no chance he would succeed. No judge is going to stop an election from being certified without concrete evidence to support his judgement. Promises by Rudy and others were not enough.

What Trump should have sued for is access to the evidence. This would take a long time but without access to the records right then and there, making the case for fraud would only get more difficult with time. Look at the amount of evidence destroyed in Georgia at this point.

My warning is, we had better stop litigating these cases in the media, social and mainstream, because it is destroying our system of justice. Trump, and others, can't get a fair trial anymore because jurors have all been tainted by what they see and hear. Now we have jurors lying to get on juries just so they can render verdicts they decided long before the cases were tried.

Good stuff, this is the response I was trying to evoke. If you have any sources you trust for some of the info you posted, please share them

 

[yimyammer]

Absolutely. When people ask me do I think Trump won in 2020 my answer is always the same. "I don't know. I don't know that Biden won either." The fact is I have no confidence in the election for 2 reasons. First, there is a lot of evidence that has been reported that strongly implies there was funny business in that election. The reports from Georgia, for example, that poll workers witnessed 150,000 ballots that appeared to be copies and only have votes for the presidential election marked. The ballots were allegedly unfolded which would not be possible if they were legitimate mail-in ballots. Then in Michigan there was the case of the woman who dumped thousands for fraudulent registrations into the system. She was caught but the investigation was hushed up and buried until last year. Which brings me to my second reason I am unsure of 2020. The coverup. Democrats fought every attempt to investigate the election in key states. To this day they are still withholding information and fighting in the courts to stop investigations. The media races to refute every new bit of evidence that comes out, sometimes using clownish logic to make their case. The energy they are expending to ensure there is no investigation, no remedial actions enacted, and to silence critics just makes me more suspicious. They are trying to make it illegal to question lection results. They protest too much.

which makes me wonder, if the election was stolen from Trump then how the hell is he going to win when nothing has changed to stop whatever occurred to give Biden the win in 2020?

 

[touchdown]

Steve Bannon interviews James O'Keefe about O'Keefe's recent undercover video he released on Twitter that films a Biden Admin. White House Cyber Official dissing the truth about Biden's decline, and how they'd like to have Kamala Harris off of the ticket, but can't, because she's black, and a woman.

 

[Dodger12]

WAT?!!?

Of course I need evidence because I'm not just going to go along with whatever mob is claiming the truth to be at any given moment, especially when it comes to politics where people are so insanely partisan and tribal so if someone like yourself makes an absolute claim of voter fraud, it should be easy to show me why you're so certain, I'm not simply going to take your word (or anyone elses) for it nor would I expect anyone to do so with any claim I may make. You dont strike me as irrational so I am going to assume you mis-typed and didnt mean what you said about "evidence".

I'm being straight up when I say I dont have time to follow all this crap to a depth required to come away convinced of any particular point of view with confidence so I like asking people like yourself who seem certain of their viewpoints how they arrived at their conclusions and what evidence they can pass along. I do the same thing with opposing points of view like people who claim the election was up and up by asking them why they would ever implicitly trust anything the government does as well as asking why shouldn't an election be question by doubters? what are you so afraid of that you belief all discussion on the matter is settled and shouldn't be questioned?

Im not here to argue with you or anyone, I want to sincerely take in various viewpoints that are compelling with strong evidence to support their claim in order to solidify where I stand not to try and win some pointless internet argument.

Additionally, we all have bias, so I am trying to not let mine cloud my judgement. My bias is an extreme disdain and disgust for just about everything Democrat but that doesnt mean I consider myself a republican or am rooting for them as my team so hearing competing views on a particular views has a way of separating the wheat from the chaff for me, so please pass along anything you think is convincing to support your point.

I brought up my example of voter fraud to confirm I agree that it has occurred on some level but I dont have a way of knowing the extent or to whom it benefitted because in my example the fraud benefitted Trump which is contrary to what you and most claim about voter fraud in that it benefited Biden.

My point is that "I", as a private citizen, can not gather evidence. It's not my responsibility to do so. The claim that there is no evidence is kind of lame though. You have videos of people stuffing drop boxes. Video evidence is real evidence; it's used in court alll the time. But it must be investigated, not pawned off as some conspiracy theory where someone is telling me to not believe my lying eyes. Sworn affidavits are also a=evidence and there are thousands of them. Video of people empying counting rooms of observers and then continue counting ballots are there. That's evidence. Video of people running ballots through multiple times are there. That's evidence. Coordinating to stop counting ballots in ALL the swing states is also evidence, albeit circumstancial.

Watchdog groups around the country and especially Keri Lake's team in AZ want to inspect the ballots and signatures but they are fought each and every step of the way. Why don't people want transparency if the election is on the up and up? Why have election materials been destroyed from 2020 but they're still available for prior elections?

In PA where I live, votes were different on the printed ballots than what the voter actually voted. Why? And how many people didn't review their printed ballot and cast an incorrect vote?

These things should nto happen. But they do. Mail in ballots are ripe for fraud and every civilized country in the world has pretty much banned them. But we allow it, bypassed state legislatures and went to left leaning ideolgue state supreme courts who allowed it. Why is that?

There's plenty of evidence out there. The bigger issue is that we have cowards in law enforcement and the judiciary who are motivated by ideology. The checks and balances fail. Even juries are corrupted by partisans.

Judges don't have the courage to

 

[Dodger12]

which makes me wonder, if the election was stolen from Trump then how the hell is he going to win when nothing has changed to stop whatever occurred to give Biden the win in 2020?

I'm not sure anyone on the right can win. But Trump can generate enthusiasm to where people get out and vote and make it more difficult to hide the fraud. I heard yesterday that Trump's support among Hispanics is over 50%. His support amongst blacks is in the high teens and I've heard even higher. The left is trying to replace these vote losses with fraud. It's why they're innundating the country with illegals and allowing them to obtain driver's licenses where they can register to vote at the same time. Who monitors this? Who at the DMV can validate if someone is illegal and not allowed to vote? It's simply outrageous.

 

[yimyammer]

My point is that "I", as a private citizen, can not gather evidence. It's not my responsibility to do so. The claim that there is no evidence is kind of lame though. You have videos of people stuffing drop boxes. Video evidence is real evidence; it's used in court alll the time. But it must be investigated, not pawned off as some conspiracy theory where someone is telling me to not believe my lying eyes. Sworn affidavits are also a=evidence and there are thousands of them. Video of people empying counting rooms of observers and then continue counting ballots are there. That's evidence. Video of people running ballots through multiple times are there. That's evidence. Coordinating to stop counting ballots in ALL the swing states is also evidence, albeit circumstancial.

Watchdog groups around the country and especially Keri Lake's team in AZ want to inspect the ballots and signatures but they are fought each and every step of the way. Why don't people want transparency if the election is on the up and up? Why have election materials been destroyed from 2020 but they're still available for prior elections?

In PA where I live, votes were different on the printed ballots than what the voter actually voted. Why? And how many people didn't review their printed ballot and cast an incorrect vote?

These things should nto happen. But they do. Mail in ballots are ripe for fraud and every civilized country in the world has pretty much banned them. But we allow it, bypassed state legislatures and went to left leaning ideolgue state supreme courts who allowed it. Why is that?

There's plenty of evidence out there. The bigger issue is that we have cowards in law enforcement and the judiciary who are motivated by ideology. The checks and balances fail. Even juries are corrupted by partisans.

Judges don't have the courage to

I agree and am very frustrated the media isnt the wtachdog it should be, they should be exposing fraud, weaknesses in the system, etc, etc but sadly they're part of the problem.

When I'm asking you for evidence, I really mean sources you're relying upon to draw the conclusions so I can try to find the time to read them and see if I trust them. I see so much heavily biased stuff and/or misleading titles that claim "X" and then never even mention the claim in the headline within their story plus the extremists on both sides are nutty as hell and I dont buy their nonsense (see Pizzagate)