Obama being a dumbass again

[Doomsday]

These are just some of the reasons why you don't get "mass murders" with bare hands, knives, clubs, forks, or whatever the fuck else.

Except, you do. Especially with knives. It gets covered on the back pages of newspapers and seldom makes the TV news though, but mass murders using knives is pretty common in gun free China for example. Do you remember one such that did get a bit of coverage, 23 victims or some such? A couple of years ago? Hammers, cleavers and knives baby. It doesn't get covered because it doesn't fit the agenda.

• 9 killed in mass stabbing in Australia.
• 29 killed in mass stabbing at train station in China.
• Hell, 19 injured seriously in mass stabbing at a High School in Pennsylvania! Where was the outrage on that one?
• Five dead in mass stabbing in Broken Arrow Oklahoma!

It goes on and on.

 

[peplaw06]

Except, you do. Especially with knives. It gets covered on the back pages of newspapers and seldom makes the TV news though, but mass murders using knives is pretty common in gun free China for example. Do you remember one such that did get a bit of coverage, 23 victims or some such? A couple of years ago? Hammers, cleavers and knives baby. It doesn't get covered because it doesn't fit the agenda.

• 9 killed in mass stabbing in Australia.
• 29 killed in mass stabbing at train station in China.
• Hell, 19 injured seriously in mass stabbing at a High School in Pennsylvania! Where was the outrage on that one?
• Five dead in mass stabbing in Broken Arrow Oklahoma!

It goes on and on.

OK, I misspoke. You don't get mass murders with knives, etc. at nearly the same rate as we get mass murders with guns in America. Anecdotes don't help here. And yeah, people don't get quite as upset with 19 "seriously injured" by stabbing as they do with 19 "dead" by semi-automatic weapons.

 

[Doomsday]

OK, I misspoke. You don't get mass murders with knives, etc. at nearly the same rate as we get mass murders with guns in America. Anecdotes don't help here. And yeah, people don't get quite as upset with 19 "seriously injured" by stabbing as they do with 19 "dead" by semi-automatic weapons.

You don't get them at nearly the same rate, or they don't get publicized with nearly the same fervor?

• Hell, 19 injured seriously in mass stabbing at a High School in Pennsylvania! Where was the outrage on that one?
• Five dead in mass stabbing in Broken Arrow Oklahoma!

That's just two off the top of my head Man. A little reasearch likely will dig up a lot more.

And yeah, people don't get quite as upset with 19 "seriously injured" by stabbing as they do with 19 "dead" by semi-automatic weapons.

MEANWHILE AGAIN, "ain't nobody cares bout the Boys in the Hood" where all the gun killing is actually happening. In the inner cities, where gun murder kills 100 times more people every month, than ALL of the "mass shootings" in the last 10 years, has.

 

[peplaw06]

Because it is about homicide, not just homicide by gun. But yes I understand your point.

But the overall point it makes is, people are going to find ways to murder, maim and tools to use to do it in a "mass" way, "mass" if we count let's say, at least 4 victims in one incident?

The fact is that where we in the US have the most strict gun laws is where we have the most gun-involved homicides.

The fact is that every single gun law passed hasn't dons jack shit to help this problem.

The fact is that every time there is a well publicized shooting incident, idiots come out of the woodwork proposing more of the same shit that hasn't worked.

My earlier post was way too long I fear, because clearly you didn't read MY proposal to try to help this issue. Please do so using your lawyer mind, I would be interested to hear your take on my idea.

Post #26. The proposal starts 7 paragraphs from the end of the post.

Unchecked crazy people will find ways to murder, but that's not the point. The point is you can save lives by making it more difficult for them to kill large swaths of people than just pulling a trigger and spraying a hail of bullets into a classroom full of 6 year olds. The gun laws we have on the books haven't worked because they don't stop people from getting guns. They are inconsistent and ineffective. Doesn't mean there aren't effective ways to do it though... as evidenced by what you see in other developed countries.

 

[Doomsday]

as evidenced by what you see in other developed countries.

Right, gun banning and confiscation!

Meanwhile, did you take a look at my proposal? It's targeted to reducing gun murder where it actually happens, in the inner cities.

 

[peplaw06]

You don't get them at nearly the same rate, or they don't get publicized with nearly the same fervor?

Hell, 19 injured seriously in mass stabbing at a High School in Pennsylvania! Where was the outrage on that one?
Five dead in mass stabbing in Broken Arrow Oklahoma!


That's just two off the top of my head Man. A little reasearch likely will dig up a lot more.

That's why I said anecdotes don't help here. You can't just copy and paste two headlines and claim that it happens at the same rate, just not covered by the media. That's not giving a comparison. We need statistical analysis like the gun homicide per capita numbers that I posted early in the thread.

 

[Doomsday]

That's why I said anecdotes don't help here. You can't just copy and paste two headlines and claim that it happens at the same rate, just not covered by the media. That's not giving a comparison. We need statistical analysis like the gun homicide per capita numbers that I posted early in the thread.

But, you asserted mass murder using other means doesn't happen at "nearly the rate" than it does with guns.

And I didn't copy or paste anything, those were just off the top of my head.

So, will you have the courage Obama doesn't, and just call for outright banning and confiscation?

 

[peplaw06]

Right, gun banning and confiscation!

Meanwhile, did you take a look at my proposal? It's targeted to reducing gun murder where it actually happens, in the inner cities.

I don't see how a voluntary buy-back would get guns off the streets. Gun owners feel they need guns to protect themselves. The crips aren't giving their guns up if the bloods are still out there with their guns.

 

[Doomsday]

We need statistical analysis like the gun homicide per capita numbers that I posted early in the thread.

Useless right, when looking for murder by other means also such as knives, vehicles, poisons and so on?

 

[Doomsday]

I don't see how a voluntary buy-back would get guns off the streets. Gun owners feel they need guns to protect themselves. The crips aren't giving their guns up if the bloods are still out there with their guns.

So, don't even try it right? Why the fuck not? We might be pleasantly surprised.

Did you miss the part where I said it would be audited/revisited annually?

I posted a idea, a proposal. Who else is?

 

[Doomsday]

They don't want to actually fix the problem, they just want to use well publicized incidents to further their incremental agenda.

They want mass shootings, they need mass shootings!

 

[Scot]

The problem with any and all gun control is that it assumes that criminals are using legally acquired and registered firearms. When a criminal obtains a firearm intended to be used in a crime they do so illegally so it can't be traced back to them. Therefore gun control will never be able to stop the common criminal

As for the mass murder offender, they often times do obtain their guns legally with the intent to commit mass murder. The problem there is the only way to weed out a "mass murderer" it's with a full psych evaluation. There is no practical way to implement a full psych evaluation for the purchase of a firearm.

 

[Doomsday]

The problem with any and all gun control is that it assumes that criminals are using legally acquired and registered firearms.

No it doesn't.

 

[Scot]

What gun control specifically targets illegally obtained firearms?

 

[peplaw06]

But, you asserted mass murder using other means doesn't happen at "nearly the rate" than it does with guns.

And I didn't copy or paste anything, those were just off the top of my head.

USA Today analyzed FBI data on mass killings and found that about 6% of mass killings are committed by stabbing versus roughly 70% of them are committed by shooting. http://www.gannett-cdn.com/GDContent/mass-killings/index.html#suspects

So, will you have the courage Obama doesn't, and just call for outright banning and confiscation?

I'm not calling for anything, and if I did, it wouldn't mean a hell of a lot. I'm just trying to have a discussion. And I'm not getting into an Obama debate on this... it's not about him.

 

[Doomsday]

USA Today analyzed FBI data on mass killings and found that about 6% of mass killings are committed by stabbing versus roughly 70% of them are committed by shooting.

The meter was, shootings vs ALL other means. Not just knives. See.

And I'm not getting into an Obama debate on this... it's not about him.

Other than, he just propagates the same shit. Demagoguery when a well publicized mass shooting happens, but totally MUM on where the actual real gun murder violence is. He's part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

[Doomsday]

What gun control specifically targets illegally obtained firearms?

Every federal gun law on the books!

 

[dbair1967]

Guns don't make people do bad things. Bad people will find ways to do bad things. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, this is not fucking rocket science.

The worst school mass killing in USA history wasn't done with guns by the way. If there were zero guns out there bad people would still find ways to do awful things.

 

[Scot]

Every federal gun law on the books!

Let's start with one of the big ones and the one that most closely ties into this thread. The Brady bill which requires a background check and a 5 day waiting period on the purchase of a hand gun from any licensed dealer.

How does that target "illegally obtained firearms" if the gun is illegally obtained they aren't buying them from a dealer. Therefore they aren't getting a background check done nor are they waiting 5 days. They are obtaining them illegally to specifically avoid this law!

 

[ZeroClub]

Such a complicated topic.

I've own several hunting firearms (that I haven't used in years) and a couple of revolvers (that I haven't used in years). I'm in the process of selling them off and will soon buy a couple of pistols, for personal defense. I plan to get a conceal carry permit before New Years. I live in a modestly-sized city and I like living in the city. I'm not in the suburbs or a gated community. There is some crime where I live. Depending on the time of day, there are several areas within walking distance of my house that aren't particularly safe. A couple of months ago, less than quarter-mile from my house, there was a home invasion situation. No one was killed, but the husband of a pregnant woman was pistol-whipped and suffered cranial fractures. That sucks.

I've lived in the EU where the rate of gun ownership is much lower than the Deep South. It felt much safer there. I could go out late at night and not worry. I'd be much happier if far fewer people owned guns, but that's not the way it is here. So I'm going to begin to conceal carry, legally, when it is dark. It isn't what I'd prefer to do, but under the current circumstances, I will. It is a way that I can gain a sense of personal control over environmental dangers that I wish were not present.

Here's something -- I've visited a few gun shops and a gun show recently to help me decide on which pistols I want to purchase. One realization that I've had, and actually I find it fairly sickening -- I see some people shopping there who really don't look like they should have a gun. I admit it, I'm going by appearances and stereotypes, but I'm talking droopy pants, very poorly educated (judging by their speech), thug-like types ... and it has happened twice now, that when I've walked by such individuals, I've smelled alcohol on their breath.

I may have it all wrong, but I'll tell you, it really strikes me as odd or surreal. ... it is as if the gun shops / gun shows are like no-fire, time-out zones ... where nobody shoots each each other on premises. Instead, people are arming themselves so that they can shoot each other off premises. It is kind of insane, really.

Anyway, I'm looking at a Walther PPS. 9mm.