Northwestern University football players can unionize, federal agency says

[peplaw06]

Why is everyone so against college players getting paid?

The NFL and NBA are forcing these kids to go to college out of high school by not allowing them in the league. They're preventing these athletes from earning a living. It's different from baseball, hockey, golf, tennis, etc. because you don't have to go to high school to play professionally and start making money in those sports.

 

[junk]

Why is everyone so against college players getting paid?

The NFL and NBA are forcing these kids to go to college out of high school by not allowing them in the league. They're preventing these athletes from earning a living. It's different from baseball, hockey, golf, tennis, etc. because you don't have to go to high school to play professionally and start making money in those sports.

I guess my issue is that there is such a disparity in college sports.

TE mentioned women's sports, but also some of the men's sports too. No one makes money off of things like swimming or lacrosse.

So, who gets paid? Just the programs/sports that make money? Then how do you fund those that lose money?

What about small schools? FBS schools?

Sure, the big schools like Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, etc. make money hand over fist on football. Ridiculous money. But I bet many don't make any money to speak of. It would be interesting to see what Northwestern's athletic department profits.

I think I agree on the image, name and likeness thing. Texas A&M shouldn't make a boatload selling Manziel jerseys.

It isn't like they get nothing though. A scholarship (of any sort) to play a sport is a great thing. Student loan debt has to be crippling to many people graduating college now. However, it is obvious many don't take advantage of it. They also get first class training facilities and coaching before moving to the NFL.

I don't know. I've done zero research. Those are just my rambling thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't understand why college football players feel the need to form unions. They aren't being overworked and even if they are, they can simply quit.

Also, they're amateurs; not professionals.

 

[JBond]

I don't understand why college football players feel the need to form unions. They aren't being overworked and even if they are, they can simply quit.

Also, they're amateurs; not professionals.

It is ridiculous. Only the mental patients appointed by Obama think this is right. Maybe our legal beagle will chime in. Precedent? The students are receiving a free college education, free food, and free housing. Something the rest of us have to pay for. Granting collective bargaining rights to a bunch of kids that are profiting from the exposure provided to them by the university is asinine. How many go pro? Very few. They receive the tools necessary to survive for free while playing a damn game.

That being said, there are issues with the NCAA. Students that rise to to a certain level, playing a game, should be allowed to market themselves. College athletics has always been a messy business.

 

[jeebus]

Why is everyone so against college players getting paid?

The NFL and NBA are forcing these kids to go to college out of high school by not allowing them in the league. They're preventing these athletes from earning a living. It's different from baseball, hockey, golf, tennis, etc. because you don't have to go to high school to play professionally and start making money in those sports.

Because you don't get paid for college sports, don't like it join a pro league. If the pro league bans you, join a different one.

Do all players make the same money? Is the qb going to get paid big, or does the backup punter get an equal share of the USC salary? What about small colleges? Do their players do less of a job, shouldn't they be paid the same? Are we going to have conference wide salaries, will the SEC buy all the players. Or will Texas go it alone and offer the premiere salary.

Fuck you, stop trying to ruin college athletics. If they don't like the system thy should go somewhere else. Thu won't because it is the best god damn thing that exists for them. Excuse me if I don't cry because the system isn't tailored to be an NFL feeder system and pay the top 1% of college athletes.

 

[jeebus]

And no shit the union ruled this way. Private sector unions are dying and they are desperate for membership.

 

[peplaw06]

I guess my issue is that there is such a disparity in college sports.

TE mentioned women's sports, but also some of the men's sports too. No one makes money off of things like swimming or lacrosse.

So, who gets paid? Just the programs/sports that make money? Then how do you fund those that lose money?

What about small schools? FBS schools?

Sure, the big schools like Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, etc. make money hand over fist on football. Ridiculous money. But I bet many don't make any money to speak of. It would be interesting to see what Northwestern's athletic department profits.

I think I agree on the image, name and likeness thing. Texas A&M shouldn't make a boatload selling Manziel jerseys.

It isn't like they get nothing though. A scholarship (of any sort) to play a sport is a great thing. Student loan debt has to be crippling to many people graduating college now. However, it is obvious many don't take advantage of it. They also get first class training facilities and coaching before moving to the NFL.

I don't know. I've done zero research. Those are just my rambling thoughts off the top of my head.

Yeah the only thing that bothers me is getting some kind of competitive balance between schools in football and basketball. Those are the only money making sports. But I don't think the theory that players should be paid if they're prevented from going professional and essentially forced to go to college and play should be controversial. How much should they be paid, and under what circumstances? OK, that's gonna need some work.

 

[peplaw06]

I don't understand why college football players feel the need to form unions. They aren't being overworked and even if they are, they can simply quit.

Also, they're amateurs; not professionals.

It is ridiculous. Only the mental patients appointed by Obama think this is right. Maybe our legal beagle will chime in. Precedent? The students are receiving a free college education, free food, and free housing. Something the rest of us have to pay for. Granting collective bargaining rights to a bunch of kids that are profiting from the exposure provided to them by the university is asinine. How many go pro? Very few. They receive the tools necessary to survive for free while playing a damn game.

That being said, there are issues with the NCAA. Students that rise to to a certain level, playing a game, should be allowed to market themselves. College athletics has always been a messy business.

How about the issue that the universities right now aren't required to provide either medical insurance or pay for medical expenses when a student is injured playing for the school? That seem right to you?

 

[JBond]

But I don't think the theory that players should be paid if they're prevented from going professional and essentially forced to go to college and play should be controversial.

That is an issue for the leagues that choose to discriminate based on age, and not a legitimate reason to grant collective bargaining powers to a bunch of students playing sports who are already being compensated with a free education. Do some of the NCAA rules regarding work etc. need to be updated? Certainly, but a union is not the best solution.

 

[peplaw06]

Because you don't get paid for college sports, don't like it join a pro league. If the pro league bans you, join a different one.

That's the whole point... You can't join the NBA or NFL until you are out of high school for the requisite time. The players who could go pro out of high school aren't going to go play Europe basketball or the Arena League or CFL because college sports are where they get the coaching and visibility to make it into the NFL. Plus, as far as football, the Arena and CFL leagues are markedly different as far as rules.

The players are being forced to be "student-athletes" when they're not interested in being students.

Do all players make the same money? Is the qb going to get paid big, or does the backup punter get an equal share of the USC salary? What about small colleges? Do their players do less of a job, shouldn't they be paid the same? Are we going to have conference wide salaries, will the SEC buy all the players. Or will Texas go it alone and offer the premiere salary.

Fuck you, stop trying to ruin college athletics. If they don't like the system thy should go somewhere else. Thu won't because it is the best god damn thing that exists for them. Excuse me if I don't cry because the system isn't tailored to be an NFL feeder system and pay the top 1% of college athletes.

The specifics can be worked out...

So much anger against freedom in this thread.

 

[peplaw06]

That is an issue for the leagues that choose to discriminate based on age, and not a legitimate reason to grant collective bargaining powers to a bunch of students playing sports who are already being compensated with a free education. Do some of the NCAA rules regarding work etc. need to be updated? Certainly, but a union is not the best solution.

Ohhhh, so you're against unionizing... that makes sense... Make these 18-22 year olds negotiate with the universities on their own.

 

[JBond]

How about the issue that the universities right now aren't required to provide either medical insurance or pay for medical expenses when a student is injured playing for the school? That seem right to you?

We have Obama Care. With no income, they will receive tax payer subsidies for their medical care. But beyond that, the NCAA has required all schools to provide insurance since 2005, so what you are saying is completely false.

Again, do some things need to be changed and updated? Absolutely. Unionization will not fix the issues. They are students, not employees. The NLRB is a complete mess and has been overturned many times when they base their decisions on leftist ideology rather than law.

 

[JBond]

Ohhhh, so you're against unionizing... that makes sense... Make these 18-22 year olds negotiate with the universities on their own.

They have no standing. They are not employees. They are students. Why is that a difficult concept for you?

 

[JBond]

That's the whole point... You can't join the NBA or NFL until you are out of high school for the requisite time.

So much anger against freedom in this thread.

Anger against freedom? What are you talking about? Maybe the leagues that discriminate based on age should be the ones that change. That is the only restriction of freedom I see in the entire thread. That would be a legitimate topic for the NLRB to address.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

The specifics can be worked out...

But that's the problem -- the devil is in the details. Surely paying Cam Newton the same as a third string guard wouldn't last long. How do you possibly create a system that's "fair" in this case? The only way is to let the market decide, and then you're into a full scale true professional league.

As for the players being forced to go to college... Who is making them? It's not like making the NFL is a right. If it were that big a problem I think the market would create a sort of minor league pro league for players to kill two years while they waited to become eligible for the NFL. Anyone remember Eric Swann? But there's no market for that because it's only a tiny percentage of players who are good enough to make the NFL anyway.

I just have a problem painting these guys as victims when they're getting a free education that's worth up to $100k (or more in some cases). And a degree is worth seven figures over the course of their lifetimes vs. having only a high school degree. That's not to mention all the tutoring they get, the campus fame they get from being a football player, etc. If they don't take advantage of that, that's their fault.

Now a bigger stipend so the poorer players can afford to go to a movie or travel back home... Okay.

 

[Jon88]

JBond, I need you to combine your posts so we don't have consecutive posts from you in threads.

Thanks!

 

[JBond]

 

[peplaw06]

We have Obama Care. With no income, they will receive tax payer subsidies for their medical care. But beyond that, the NCAA has required all schools to provide insurance since 2005, so what you are saying is completely false.

Again, do some things need to be changed and updated? Absolutely. Unionization will not fix the issues. They are students, not employees. The NLRB is a complete mess and has been overturned many times when they base their decisions on leftist ideology rather than law.

The anti-Obama everything JBond says, "just go get Obamacare."

They have no standing. They are not employees. They are students. Why is that a difficult concept for you?

Standing? This is the first time you brought up a standing issue.

How are they not "employees?" They perform a service and get paid in return through tuition, books, room & board. If they don't perform their service to the university, they don't get paid through tuition, books, room & board.

If you mean standing to negotiate their scholarship, they are a party to the scholarship, so they damn sure do have standing. The problem is the NCAA has it's overbearing regs on what can and can't be provided, which prevents the athletes from negotiating benefits. So these players don't have the freedom to seek the employment that they would be entitled to, and they don't have the freedom to negotiate the terms of the scholarships that they receive in return for their services. They also haven't had the freedom to even control and be compensated for the use of their likeness in video games, merchandising, etc.

Baseball players and hockey players have the right to be drafted right out of high school, and if they CHOOSE and the teams that draft them think they are good enough, they can play in the major professional ranks right then (See Valeri Nichushkin and Seth Jones). If they CHOOSE, they can play minor league baseball (associated with MLB) and begin working their way up the system.

NFL and NBA are really the only leagues who do it this way, which forces the athletes into a situation where their services are exploited for peanuts. You can say they get tuition, room & board, books, but they don't get money in their pocket. If they want to go grab dinner at McDonald's, you better have parents who pay for it, or go beg for the money. Get a part-time job? Yeah right, your full-time job is football or basketball.

Anger against freedom? What are you talking about? Maybe the leagues that discriminate based on age should be the ones that change. That is the only restriction of freedom I see in the entire thread. That would be a legitimate topic for the NLRB to address.

I agree with that too. The leagues shouldn't be restricting anyone from coming into the league if their skills are worthy. There have been challenges to that, and there will be more.

 

[JBond]

And no shit the union ruled this way. Private sector unions are dying and they are desperate for membership.

The Steelworkers union is bankrolling this initiative. What they have to do with college students who are voluntarily playing games, I have no idea.

 

[JBond]

Standing? This is the first time you brought up a standing issue.

How are they not "employees?" They perform a service and get paid in return through tuition, books, room & board. If they don't perform their service to the university, they don't get paid through tuition, books, room & board.

If you mean standing to negotiate their scholarship, they are a party to the scholarship, so they damn sure do have standing. The problem is the NCAA has it's overbearing regs on what can and can't be provided, which prevents the athletes from negotiating benefits. So these players don't have the freedom to seek the employment that they would be entitled to, and they don't have the freedom to negotiate the terms of the scholarships that they receive in return for their services. They also haven't had the freedom to even control and be compensated for the use of their likeness in video games, merchandising, etc.

Baseball players and hockey players have the right to be drafted right out of high school, and if they CHOOSE and the teams that draft them think they are good enough, they can play in the major professional ranks right then (See Valeri Nichushkin and Seth Jones). If they CHOOSE, they can play minor league baseball (associated with MLB) and begin working their way up the system.

NFL and NBA are really the only leagues who do it this way, which forces the athletes into a situation where their services are exploited for peanuts. You can say they get tuition, room & board, books, but they don't get money in their pocket. If they want to go grab dinner at McDonald's, you better have parents who pay for it, or go beg for the money. Get a part-time job? Yeah right, your full-time job is football or basketball.

I agree with that too. The leagues shouldn't be restricting anyone from coming into the league if their skills are worthy. There have been challenges to that, and there will be more.

They are not employees. They are kids that are volunteering to play a game in exchange for free stuff. In this case a very expensive education. They do not sign a contract as an employee of the college or university. They have no standing as I have said. Can you cite a precedent that supports the ruling of the NLRB?

Are some of the NCAA rules asinine? Yes. I have said so many times. Can they be changed? Yes they can.