No decision yet on Spencer- UPDATED likely to get tagged

[dbair1967]

And what is that player, dbair? Spencer is a rugged SOLB who offers minimal pass-rushing potential. So was Fajita, and I think that's the only point theebs is making.

Fujita was not a "rugged" player. He was ok vs the run, almost a zero as a pass rusher and very medicore playing in space vs the pass.

Spencer does get SOME pass rush, and he is very good vs the run and pretty decent in coverage.

 

[Hoofbite]

I am not saying fujita is as good, I am saying he gave us good enough play and had good numbers for what he was paid.

I would prefer to go that route for this season before I would give spencer a contract that says he is a big bad ass when he is clearly nothing more than just a good player.

Play that position by committee this season and spend the money on better players.

Bingo.

Tagging Spencer means the team passes on filling other holes.

So, tag Spencer and have more holes to fill next year when Spencer is no longer or around.

Or just let him go and improve a greater number of players around that position.

 

[Hoofbite]

Fujita was not a "rugged" player. He was ok vs the run, almost a zero as a pass rusher and very medicore playing in space vs the pass.

Spencer does get SOME pass rush, and he is very good vs the run and pretty decent in coverage.

No, he is not decent in coverage no matter how many times you say it.

He's marginal in pass rush, very good against the run and subpar against the pass.

 

[Midswat]

People are underestimating Spencer.

Get a NT who collapses the pocket, or a secondary who could adjust to hot reads and the sack numbers would go up.

 

[Theebs]

People are underestimating Spencer.

Get a NT who collapses the pocket, or a secondary who could adjust to hot reads and the sack numbers would go up.

That maybe so, but I am not paying alot of money to a guy who couldn't beat one on ones down the stretch nearly every snap.

I just think this is the exact wrong guy to pay.

 

[dbair1967]

I can just see the reaction if we let Spencer walk and a team like the Pats or Packers sign him:

"OMG, that Jerry is so fucking stupid!!! How could he let Spencer go and leave us with another gaping hole on an already medicore defense"...Signing Spencer is the kind of championship move good franchises like Pats or Packers make"

Dont try to deny it either clowns, you know you'd be saying just this.

 

[Sheik]

People are underestimating Spencer.

Get a NT who collapses the pocket, or a secondary who could adjust to hot reads and the sack numbers would go up.

I don't think anyone is underestimating Spencer. If anything, the Cowboys are overrating him.

He does a few things real well, but you don't franchise tag players like him. He can't get to the QB. He can't/doesn't get the pressure opposite Ware that we need.

I don't see how anyone can agree with giving him the tag. If he gets it. Essentially you're rewarding the guy for being decent.

And Dbair can call my take lame all he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that this defense needs to get better. You don't accomplish that by continuing to employ the same losers on that unit, year after year.

 

[Sheik]

I can just see the reaction if we let Spencer walk and a team like the Pats or Packers sign him:

"OMG, that Jerry is so fucking stupid!!! How could he let Spencer go and leave us with another gaping hole on an already medicore defense"...Signing Spencer is the kind of championship move good franchises like Pats or Packers make"

Dont try to deny it either clowns, you know you'd be saying just this.

I don't care where he ends up. As long as he's not eating a large chunk of cap that could be used to bring players in that can actually help the defense get better.

We all know how much Jerry likes his continuity, though.

 

[dbair1967]

I don't think anyone is underestimating Spencer. If anything, the Cowboys are overrating him.

He does a few things real well, but you don't franchise tag players like him. He can't get to the QB. He can't/doesn't get the pressure opposite Ware that we need.

I don't see how anyone can agree with giving him the tag. If he gets it. Essentially you're rewarding the guy for being decent.

And Dbair can call my take lame all he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that this defense needs to get better. You don't accomplish that by continuing to employ the same losers on that unit, year after year.

Spencer isnt great, but he isnt the biggest problem either. You dont let him go unless you know you have a definite upgrade. Doing so would be really foolish. There are no obvious DeMarcus Ware's in this draft, and there definitely arnt any of his calibar of player available in free agency. The only way letting Spencer get to unrestricted free agency makes sense is if they are going to sign somebody like Mario Williams and change to a 4-3 defense. He's an obvious upgrade over Spencer.

I dont love the guy and would love to see his position upgraded, but the fact is there arnt alot of quality options at his position, in fact Spencer is regarded as the best OLB that might be available.

There are a few players in the draft which might be potential replacements down the road, but none of them is likely a guy you could plug in from day one and expect them to do at least as good as Spencer does now. Ingram might be the best possibility there, but he might not even be available for us on draft day. Upshaw probably is going to struggle to be an everydown OLB in a 3-4 initially. He might could do it in time, but is probably a PT player at first.

 

[Sheik]

Go fuck yourself, David.

 

[Theebs]

I can just see the reaction if we let Spencer walk and a team like the Pats or Packers sign him:

"OMG, that Jerry is so fucking stupid!!! How could he let Spencer go and leave us with another gaping hole on an already medicore defense"...Signing Spencer is the kind of championship move good franchises like Pats or Packers make"

Dont try to deny it either clowns, you know you'd be saying just this.

Not me.

Sometimes guys have success when they leave, it happens. Doesn't mean we have to overpay them.

Bennett and Spencer could both turn into good players somewhere else they have the ability, but personally as long a they are nit payed here more power to them.

It's happened with guys like trotter and many others.

 

[Hoofbite]

Spencer isnt great, but he isnt the biggest problem either. You dont let him go unless you know you have a definite upgrade. Doing so would be really foolish. There are no obvious DeMarcus Ware's in this draft, and there definitely arnt any of his calibar of player available in free agency. The only way letting Spencer get to unrestricted free agency makes sense is if they are going to sign somebody like Mario Williams and change to a 4-3 defense. He's an obvious upgrade over Spencer.

I dont love the guy and would love to see his position upgraded, but the fact is there arnt alot of quality options at his position, in fact Spencer is regarded as the best OLB that might be available.

There are a few players in the draft which might be potential replacements down the road, but none of them is likely a guy you could plug in from day one and expect them to do at least as good as Spencer does now. Ingram might be the best possibility there, but he might not even be available for us on draft day. Upshaw probably is going to struggle to be an everydown OLB in a 3-4 initially. He might could do it in time, but is probably a PT player at first.

I let Spencer go knowing I can upgrade CB (Carr), NT, (Pouha) and C (Myers / Wells) with the majority of their cap hits being covered by Spencers 9M.

Call me crazy but I'd rather sacrifice 1 guy who isn't in the long term plans if it means I can acquire 3 top performing players for the length of their contract.

Lets say Carr comes in at 6M cap hit.

Pouha at 4M

C at 4M

Two of those guys are 90% covered by Spencers freed up space.

Now, keep Spencer at 9M and sign Carr. You've blown your load.

I'm not willing to sacrifice one of the best Cs in the game and a very good NT just so Dallas can delay finding a replacement for Spencer for 1 season.

It's not just about Spencer and the SOLB position. It's about building the team. You don't build a team by renting a guy for a single season at a price that is probably double what he really deserves.

JMO.

 

[cmd34]

I think we could be playing chicken with Houston on whether or not they Tag Mario Williams. I'd rather take a run at Williams and risk losing Spencer then signing Spencer and later finding out we had a real shot at Mario.

 

[Hoofbite]

Not me.

Sometimes guys have success when they leave, it happens. Doesn't mean we have to overpay them.

Bennett and Spencer could both turn into good players somewhere else they have the ability, but personally as long a they are nit payed here more power to them.

It's happened with guys like trotter and many others.

I've never understood the "you'd be pissed if he performed elsewhere" argument.

Obviously there are circumstances when I would buy into that. Say, an player the cowboys picked up late in the draft or signed off the street who was cut to make room for a kicker. Yes, I would be pissed.

But, to say that about guys who've been around for 4-5 years and haven't produced on the level we're talking about. No.

Not pissed at all because they were not doing that here and hand plenty of opportunity to show that they could. You win some and you lose some. Robinson.....WIN. Bennett goes somewhere else and produces......LOSS.

Who's the last player that Dallas got rid of that went somewhere else and blew up? Bowen had a good season with like 7 sacks or something but I'm talking about really blowing up.

 

[Hoofbite]

I think we could be playing chicken with Houston on whether or not they Tag Mario Williams. I'd rather take a run at Williams and risk losing Spencer then signing Spencer and later finding out we had a real shot at Mario.

I don't think Houston can tag him. If they tag him they owe him way more than any other player.

I read somewhere there was an escalator in his contract that says if he were to be tagged his salary goes to 120% of his salary from the previous season.

His salary last year was 18M so they're on the hook for 23M or so if they tag him.

He's gonna hit the market. They can't afford to tag him.

 

[cmd34]

I don't think Houston can tag him. If they tag him they owe him way more than any other player.

I read somewhere there was an escalator in his contract that says if he were to be tagged his salary goes to 120% of his salary from the previous season.

His salary last year was 18M so they're on the hook for 23M or so if they tag him.

He's gonna hit the market. They can't afford to tag him.

You have to give the man a call. If he wants a Gigantic payday then you move on. If he wants a comparable deal to Ware and form one of the best pass-rushing duos in NFL history then you make that move, say sayonara to Spencer, and try to find an affordable Cornerback to replace Newman. If(when) he hits the open market, he's the first phone call I make (then Nicks, then Carr).

 

[Theebs]

You have to give the man a call. If he wants a Gigantic payday then you move on. If he wants a comparable deal to Ware and form one of the best pass-rushing duos in NFL history then you make that move, say sayonara to Spencer, and try to find an affordable Cornerback to replace Newman. If(when) he hits the open market, he's the first phone call I make (then Nicks, then Carr).

I agree.

He would be target number 1 for me.

Gets to stay in Texas and play across from ware, how in the world could u turn that down.

 

[dbair1967]

I let Spencer go knowing I can upgrade CB (Carr), NT, (Pouha) and C (Myers / Wells) with the majority of their cap hits being covered by Spencers 9M.

Call me crazy but I'd rather sacrifice 1 guy who isn't in the long term plans if it means I can acquire 3 top performing players for the length of their contract.

Lets say Carr comes in at 6M cap hit.

Pouha at 4M

C at 4M

Two of those guys are 90% covered by Spencers freed up space.

Now, keep Spencer at 9M and sign Carr. You've blown your load.

I'm not willing to sacrifice one of the best Cs in the game and a very good NT just so Dallas can delay finding a replacement for Spencer for 1 season.

It's not just about Spencer and the SOLB position. It's about building the team. You don't build a team by renting a guy for a single season at a price that is probably double what he really deserves.

JMO.

I think you are reaching badly.

I'm sure if keeping Spencer meant the team couldnt do anything else, they'd let him go.

There's no reason they cant keep Spencer, sign a quality CB, probably add a quality OL and maybe another reasonbly priced starter as well.

 

[dbair1967]

I think we could be playing chicken with Houston on whether or not they Tag Mario Williams. I'd rather take a run at Williams and risk losing Spencer then signing Spencer and later finding out we had a real shot at Mario.

They can do both CMD.

Even if you tag Spencer to protect yourself from losing him, they would still be able to pursue a guy like Williams and if he signed, you then remove the tag from Spencer and let him become a f/a.

 

[dbair1967]

I don't think Houston can tag him. If they tag him they owe him way more than any other player.

I read somewhere there was an escalator in his contract that says if he were to be tagged his salary goes to 120% of his salary from the previous season.

His salary last year was 18M so they're on the hook for 23M or so if they tag him.

He's gonna hit the market. They can't afford to tag him.

This is correct, and their owner has already said they are not going to franchise tag him for this reason.