Horn: Michael Irvin trusts Troy Aikman in the pocket, Tony Romo outside it

[Theebs]

At one point he was 11-1 as a starter in the playoffs. And that wasn't accomplished by handing off to Emmitt all the time.

who said it was? Rewatch the games.

Its a team game. When the team was good aikman elevated them to the next level by making big plays at critical moments. When the team was just average later on in his career he could not do that and we lost alot of games.

 

[bbgun]

who said it was? Rewatch the games.

Its a team game. When the team was good aikman elevated them to the next level by making big plays at critical moments. When the team was just average later on in his career he could not do that and we lost alot of games.

Punk called him a "bus driver" yesterday, a term usually reserved for guys like Dilfer or Hostetler. Ludicrous.

 

[bbgun]

just used it as an example because it was not one of aikmans better games and his poor play was a huge part of the loss.

Aikman in the great part of his career never had to worry about a game like that with emmitt in the backfield.

As dbair noted, we acknowledge that he was guilty of having bad games. That's not the same as choking away a sure win. I remember him throwing a game-ending pick vs the Bills in 1993 (minus Emmitt) when we were already in FG range to tie the game. He got greedy and paid for it.

 

[bbgun]

Troy was not happy before the Chicago playoff game in 1991. Seems like relations with the coaching staff were still strained.

[video=youtube;8Fam0U4QKXA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fam0U4QKXA[/video]

 

[Theebs]

Punk called him a "bus driver" yesterday, a term usually reserved for guys like Dilfer or Hostetler. Ludicrous.

yeah calling aikman a bus driver doesnt make any sense to be honest. The guy was brilliant.

 

[Theebs]

As dbair noted, we acknowledge that he was guilty of having bad games. That's not the same as choking away a sure win. I remember him throwing a game-ending pick vs the Bills in 1993 (minus Emmitt) when we were already in FG range to tie the game. He got greedy and paid for it.

well first off that is implying that romo lost the games by himself and that is not true of either the jets or lions game. The punt block against the jets was the biggest play of the game.

and the lions game we just didnt play good defense in the second half even when they had to drive the length of the field...and I will argue till I am blue in the face the injury to sensebaugh was the biggest thing to happen in that second half....sensebaugh was keeping the ball from calvin johnson.....when church came in they just went to johnson repeatedly.

either way, comparing romos career to aikmans based on these games again is not fair, its the whole thing and romo is not done yet thank god.

 

[Theebs]

Troy was not happy before the Chicago playoff game in 1991. Seems like relations with the coaching staff were still strained.

[video=youtube;8Fam0U4QKXA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fam0U4QKXA[/video]

yep, the johnson aikman thing was resolved in 92 at a party at wannstedts house. Apparently there used to be parties at his house and that is where everyone got together...Jimmy was notorius for drinking heinekens and after the hidden briefcase or bag...cant remember jimmy and troy sat and talked it out over a number of heinekens....

that mike fisher book is great for anyone who has not read it...
http://www.amazon.com/Stars-Strife-Cowboys-Reemergence-Americas/dp/1565300645

 

[superpunk]

lol what?

why would u doubt the story when babe himself is the guy telling it and he was his roomate?

It's dbair. Have you seen his opinion on scientific facts that disagree with his preconceptions about the world? No surprises here.

 

[bbgun]

well first off that is implying that romo lost the games by himself and that is not true of either the jets or lions game. The punt block against the jets was the biggest play of the game.

and the lions game we just didnt play good defense in the second half even when they had to drive the length of the field...and I will argue till I am blue in the face the injury to sensebaugh was the biggest thing to happen in that second half....sensebaugh was keeping the ball from calvin johnson.....when church came in they just went to johnson repeatedly.

either way, comparing romos career to aikmans based on these games again is not fair, its the whole thing and romo is not done yet thank god.

Fumbling at the goal line and throwing a hideous INT to Revis were more damaging than a rookie missing a block on the punt squad. Unlike the rookie, Tony should have known better.

As for Detroit, Tony had two pick sixes and a third pick that set up the Lions in Dallas territory. I'm not inclined to blame the (admittedly imperfect) defense for his unraveling.

 

[bbgun]

yep, the johnson aikman thing was resolved in 92 at a party at wannstedts house. Apparently there used to be parties at his house and that is where everyone got together...Jimmy was notorius for drinking heinekens and after the hidden briefcase or bag...cant remember jimmy and troy sat and talked it out over a number of heinekens....

that mike fisher book is great for anyone who has not read it...
http://www.amazon.com/Stars-Strife-Cowboys-Reemergence-Americas/dp/1565300645

I thought they bonded when Troy went to Jimmy's house to look at tropical fish or something. And what's the briefcase anecdote all about?

 

[Theebs]

I thought they bonded when Troy went to Jimmy's house to look at tropical fish or something. And what's the briefcase anecdote all about?

at a party at wannstedts, they hid aikmans bag/briefcase...i cant remember what it was and he wanted to leave and was pissed and it was jimmy who did it.

edit I looked it up.

july 14, 1992
pick a ticket night at texas stadium,,,,not wannstedts house....it was at an event at the stadium, aikman was ready to leave and couldnt find his duffel bag...jimmy hid it, troy was told jimmy hid it and troy asked him for it and of course jimmy denied it.

that kicked off a normal conversation the two never had....
the quote from aikman on that night..

"Jimmy and I were the last two to leave the party, we talked over a couple of beers about everything. we talked about what needed to be done by both of us and what we needed from each other, if we were going to have a successful season. essentially we agreed to bury the hatchet."

aikman had all kinds of beef with jimmy.

 

[bbgun]

It's funny because most people remember Troy clashing with Switzer, especially after that John Blake/racism debacle in 1995, when Barry didn't exactly race to Troy's defense. The two of them barely spoke to each other after that.

 

[Theebs]

oh and dbair, aikman didnt like jimmy for a number of reasons and they didnt even talk to each other for two months in the 90 season culminating in that rams week where babe talked him out of asking for a trade on saturday night only to have aikman tell jimmy that anyway to his face on monday morning if things didnt change.

a quick rundown of his beefs were that jimmy was publically saying they wanted mandarich and walsh because of some conversations with lou holz where jimmy agreed there wasnt much difference in walsh and aikman.

Aikman resented that walker trade because he was a guy he looked up to before he was even on his team.

What got back to aikman the wednesday before the rams game in 90 was that jimmy called aikman a loser in the coaches meetings. It made aikman livid. He already didnt get along with jimmy and he had lost qb coach jerry rhome after the 89 season a guy he liked alot and helped him. he didnt like jimmy's coaching style and the way he handled issues publically.

another thing ironic to your other post, one of aikmans closest friends and a guy who helped him alot babe laufenberg was let go after being promised by jimmy that he would be invited to camp in 91. It angered aikman and made aikman believe jimmy was what he thought he was a liar.

Here is aikmans quote on that week of the rams game in 90.

"Football wasnt fun, I dont care how much money your getting paid. I know the guy out there working construction might not sympathize with this, but the whole idea is for me to enjoy myself. Dallas was definitely the city I wanted to be in, i love the people the attitudes everything about it. But as far as my job, I thought I needed a change, something needed to change."

aikmans intentions were to to go to jimmys hotel suite and tell him he wanted out after hearing the loser comment.

here is the paragraph from the book on it, on top of babes own telling of it.

Instead, Aikman spent some time with Babe Laufenberg, his road roommate, then ducked out of the hotel and met his agent leigh steinberg. Aikman said "they said some things that put my feelings on hold, but I still wasnt sure this was going to work for me."

 

[UVAwahoos]

So basically this thread is just more of Dbair getting owned. Even by his own allies.

I like.

 

[Theebs]

So basically this thread is just more of Dbair getting owned. Even by his own allies.

I like.

nobody is doing any of that.

Just talking about the old days, nothing more nothing less.

 

[dbair1967]

none of that makes any difference in what happened?

troys problem was that he didnt get along with shula and that other coaches were whispering to him in his ear that the staff didnt believe in him and were placing blame for the teams struggles on him.

who the backup was at the time was not the issue, it was not about walsh it was about aikman being pissed.

in the games leading up to that rams game if you go back and watch the offense and aikman were horrendous. He had 5 td and 15 interceptions at that point and the team was barely gaining positive yards. the players and aikman felt the blame was with walsh for not correctly using them and aikman was taking exception for being scapegoated in meetings. It was like a him or me thing...

what does babes perfomance have to do with anything? We all know he was just a third string guy, that is not relevant at all. he was awful in those games without question, not that aikman had ever had a good game against the eagles yet but still.

It makes a difference because you said that Laufenberg claimed Troy had a problem with Walsh being on the team at that point in the season, and Walsh was gone after the first month of the season.

The offense was poor in 89 and 90 for two reasons- not enough talent and a truly awful offensive coordinator.

 

[dbair1967]

Troy was not happy before the Chicago playoff game in 1991. Seems like relations with the coaching staff were still strained.

[video=youtube;8Fam0U4QKXA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fam0U4QKXA[/video]

Yeah I think he was pissed because he was saying he was healthy enough to start (he actually said that the week before vs Atlanta) but Jimmy didnt want to take a chance.

 

[dbair1967]

It's dbair. Have you seen his opinion on scientific facts that disagree with his preconceptions about the world? No surprises here.

lol

throw in the lib bias even in the football area

and he does it on a subject that world class experts also claim is bullshit

 

[dbair1967]

So basically this thread is just more of Dbair getting owned. Even by his own allies.

I like.

owned by what?

 

[bbgun]

Yeah I think he was pissed because he was saying he was healthy enough to start (he actually said that the week before vs Atlanta) but Jimmy didnt want to take a chance.

Can't blame Jimmy for wanting to stay with the hot hand.