Horn: Michael Irvin trusts Troy Aikman in the pocket, Tony Romo outside it

[dbair1967]

Aikman peeps just got deuced on. Smelly.

Aikman, still better than Romo.

 

[Theebs]

Now you reaching a bit. Aikman still made the probowl that yr, despite missing the last 5 games. He had 1 or 2 bad games, but it was clear the new offense was perfect for him. Thats why there was never a hint from Johnson or anyone else in the organization of a QB controversy.

hey I love aikman, but I am not going to sit here and act like he didnt throw tons of interceptions, a number of them that were returned for picks or that he didnt cost the team games.

the thing is its just part of it, it happens. Aikman fumbling in the endzone at washington in dec of 92 cost us the game and it was basically the exact kind of thing that is the perception of romo. Now that play should have been the tuck rule but oh well.

if romo wins a superbowl fans and media will immediately be talking about all his great moments in his career because there are a ton.

just like people dont sit around and talk about the time aikman threw away the game at the goal line against the eagles when troy vincent picked him and went 99 yards....straight out of the drew bledsoe vs the giants in 06 playbook.

people just remember the superbowls.....at least most fans do......they dont remember roger staubachs final series ever as qb against the rams in the playoff where he had the ball with a chance to go down the field and win the game like the previous week vs the redskins, and he missed open wr and on a critical 3rd down he hit a lineman in the back and turn the ball over on downs and the 79 season ended and so did his career.

they dont remember that, they remember the throw to tony hill and the rest of his career.

and the same will happen for romo if the front office can find a way to get enough good guys around here and hopefully a competent coaching staff that can take us all the way.

I will say this, if romo wins one when people look back on his career they will remember the superbowl, the game in buffalo in 07, the game in ny in 06, the sf game in 11, the snap over his head vs the rams in 07, the win over the packers in 07, his brilliance on thanksgiving etc...

if he never wins one he will be the guy who fumbled at the goal line in seattle, lost to the giants in 07 in the playoffs and lost the final home game against the ravens in 08....

neither is a complete look at romo and wont be fair.

All I know is Aikman was fucking awesome and so is romo.

its on the front office and the defensive coaching staff to find a way to help this guy win a championship.

 

[dbair1967]

Every QB has bad games, no QB goes through a career without having bad games, or making some bad plays.

The thing that separates the BEST QB's, are the one's who consistently elevate their play in the biggest games. Aikman did that consistently in his career. Not many have.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

that bears playoff game is my favorite cowboy game ever.

these clips are not from the playoff game though, these are from the regular season. That game was a big one on the weekend of halloween 1991. I remember it like yesterday, I was in 9th grade and all i ever did was talk about football all day at school....I had a lions fan who sat next to me in my world studies class and he just drove me crazy about how aikman and emmitt stunk and the lions were going to win the superbowl......

so that game made it miserable that week, but the playoff game just made it twice as bad!

at that time aikman basically threw that game away and played poorly, when buerlein took over for him there were lots of people who thought buerlein was better. It was just that the team was playing better

ah, that’s right, they did play the Lions during the season.

Aikman was’t perfect. I think over time you forget a player’s short comings, especially when it comes to the 90’s Cowboys. I always thought Aikman’s deep bombs weren’t very good. I also thought he took too many hits and he looked awkward running out of the pocket. That said, i still take Aikman. Until Romo gets me a Super Bowl, it’s not even a debate.

 

[Theebs]

Every QB has bad games, no QB goes through a career without having bad games, or making some bad plays.

The thing that separates the BEST QB's, are the one's who consistently elevate their play in the biggest games. Aikman did that consistently in his career. Not many have.

yep i agree but even more than that you have to be a good team.

when aikman had a young emmitt, a number 1 defense and brilliant special teams he won super bowls....not to mention jimmy johnson.

when he didnt he lost to carolina, arizona and minnesota.

go back and watch the arizona playoff game, its just miserable...

 

[dbair1967]

yep i agree but even more than that you have to be a good team.

when aikman had a young emmitt, a number 1 defense and brilliant special teams he won super bowls....not to mention jimmy johnson.

when he didnt he lost to carolina, arizona and minnesota.

go back and watch the arizona playoff game, its just miserable...

We didnt have a #1 defense in 1993 or 1995. And after the 90-92 seasons, the special teasm starting getting pretty average.

The team that lost to Carolina was really decimated by injuries, and we lost Michael irvin to injury early in that game.

As for the Arizona game, it was miserable, but it was more a miserable display of WR skill (they must have dropped 6-8 passes that day, including several that would have been big plays). Arizona defensive players also laughed at Chan Gailey after the game, saying he basically called that game exactly like the two previous regular season games. Made no adjustments or changes for the game.

 

[Theebs]

right its a team game.

Before I get started working this morning I am watching week 11 of the 90 season at the rams. This is the game that laufenberg the night before had to talk aikman out of going into jimmy's hotel room and demanding a trade....as babe puts it aikman played his worst football game of his career in the first half and then found a way to come back and win and it started that 4 game winning streak...

 

[dbair1967]

right its a team game.

Before I get started working this morning I am watching week 11 of the 90 season at the rams. This is the game that laufenberg the night before had to talk aikman out of going into jimmy's hotel room and demanding a trade....as babe puts it aikman played his worst football game of his career in the first half and then found a way to come back and win and it started that 4 game winning streak...

Yeah not sure I buy that story.

 

[dbair1967]

right its a team game.

Before I get started working this morning I am watching week 11 of the 90 season at the rams. This is the game that laufenberg the night before had to talk aikman out of going into jimmy's hotel room and demanding a trade....as babe puts it aikman played his worst football game of his career in the first half and then found a way to come back and win and it started that 4 game winning streak...

Also, we were winning that game at half time. Aikman played great that day. Over 300 yds total and 3 tds, all in the first half.

 

[Theebs]

Yeah not sure I buy that story.

lol what?

Babe was his roomate, he hated walsh, it kept getting back to aikman that the staff was trashing him in meetings and they didnt think he was the guy. Aikman finally had enough and was going to demand a trade. Babe sat him down and explained the long term effects of that and how he would be viewed etc.

it also is in mike fishers book. Aikman was a guy in doubt. Aikman and jimmy didnt get along until a party in 92 where jimmy was busting troys balls and hid his briefcase......I guess as mike fisher told it they sat down and worked out there differences that night and went forward.

the biggest thing that changed for him was Norv and the other qbs on the roster in 91. As buerlein tells the story, shula was a dick apparently who was worried about himself and norv was like one of the guys. Norv and his wife had the qbs aikman, buerlein and ps jason garrett at there house all the time. That is where they hung out in 91 like everyday....It was that comraderie and troys love of norv that turned it all around.

why would u doubt the story when babe himself is the guy telling it and he was his roomate?

 

[dbair1967]

Also, Steve Walsh was traded that season before the trade deadline. I think he was traded around week four.

If Aikman hadnt gotten hurt vs Philly in game 15, we'd have made the playoffs that year. Laufenberg had to play vs Philly and Atlanta and played some of the worst QB I have ever seen played in the history of my life. I was at the Atlanta game the final week of the season, it was awful.

Thats one reason Jimmy was bound and determined to get a decent backup QB for the 91 season, and we traded for Buerlien.

 

[dbair1967]

lol what?

Babe was his roomate, he hated walsh, it kept getting back to aikman that the staff was trashing him in meetings and they didnt think he was the guy. Aikman finally had enough and was going to demand a trade. Babe sat him down and explained the long term effects of that and how he would be viewed etc.

it also is in mike fishers book. Aikman was a guy in doubt. Aikman and jimmy didnt get along until a party in 92 where jimmy was busting troys balls and hid his briefcase......I guess as mike fisher told it they sat down and worked out there differences that night and went forward.

the biggest thing that changed for him was Norv and the other qbs on the roster in 91. As buerlein tells the story, shula was a dick apparently who was worried about himself and norv was like one of the guys. Norv and his wife had the qbs aikman, buerlein and ps jason garrett at there house all the time. That is where they hung out in 91 like everyday....It was that comraderie and troys love of norv that turned it all around.

why would u doubt the story when babe himself is the guy telling it and he was his roomate?

See post following that one. Alot of facts are different than what Laufenberg seems to recall, including the fact that Steve Walsh was traded early in the season.

 

[dbair1967]

lol what?

Babe was his roomate, he hated walsh, it kept getting back to aikman that the staff was trashing him in meetings and they didnt think he was the guy. Aikman finally had enough and was going to demand a trade. Babe sat him down and explained the long term effects of that and how he would be viewed etc.

it also is in mike fishers book. Aikman was a guy in doubt. Aikman and jimmy didnt get along until a party in 92 where jimmy was busting troys balls and hid his briefcase......I guess as mike fisher told it they sat down and worked out there differences that night and went forward.

the biggest thing that changed for him was Norv and the other qbs on the roster in 91. As buerlein tells the story, shula was a dick apparently who was worried about himself and norv was like one of the guys. Norv and his wife had the qbs aikman, buerlein and ps jason garrett at there house all the time. That is where they hung out in 91 like everyday....It was that comraderie and troys love of norv that turned it all around.

why would u doubt the story when babe himself is the guy telling it and he was his roomate?

Buerlien never played for Shula by the way.

Shula was offensive coordinator in 1989-1990, he was demoted and eventually fired after the 1990 season.

 

[Theebs]

See post following that one. Alot of facts are different than what Laufenberg seems to recall, including the fact that Steve Walsh was traded early in the season.

none of that makes any difference in what happened?

troys problem was that he didnt get along with shula and that other coaches were whispering to him in his ear that the staff didnt believe in him and were placing blame for the teams struggles on him.

who the backup was at the time was not the issue, it was not about walsh it was about aikman being pissed.

in the games leading up to that rams game if you go back and watch the offense and aikman were horrendous. He had 5 td and 15 interceptions at that point and the team was barely gaining positive yards. the players and aikman felt the blame was with walsh for not correctly using them and aikman was taking exception for being scapegoated in meetings. It was like a him or me thing...

what does babes perfomance have to do with anything? We all know he was just a third string guy, that is not relevant at all. he was awful in those games without question, not that aikman had ever had a good game against the eagles yet but still.

 

[Midswat]

Aikman:
3 Super Bowl wins.
Super Bowl MVP trophy.
First ballot Hall of Famer.

Romo:
Good stats


Hmmmmm....

 

[Theebs]

Buerlien never played for Shula by the way.

Shula was offensive coordinator in 1989-1990, he was demoted and eventually fired after the 1990 season.

no kidding, who said he did?

in fishers book the comparison of shula being concerned with himself and not open to player input is clearly depicted and clearly the players talked about the difference the following season. Which is where norv and his wife come in and buerlein and aikman come in. They hung out at norvs house all day drinking beer, eating pizza and watching film and talking football all the time......

norv was one of the guys, his wife was like a mom to the young qb group. The comraderie and norv taking advantage of the players skills were what sent the thing into the stratosphere.

You know, I was going to say in the other post yes i know steve did not play for shula but I thought it was obvious what was being implied....I should have known better.

 

[bbgun]

Not sure why the 1991 reg season game at Detroit is relevant. We're talking about pissing away a sure win, like Romo did vs the Lions and Jets last season. Conversely, the 1991 game was tied at halftime and was never in the bag for Dallas.

 

[Theebs]

Aikman:
3 Super Bowl wins.
Super Bowl MVP trophy.
First ballot Hall of Famer.

Romo:
Good stats


Hmmmmm....

and?

both are great players. You can take aikmans statline you just provided and then underneath insert Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Bernie Kosar etc......

its a team game.

if the internet existed in aikmans era and we had these forums and pft etc.....Aikman would have been crucified for some of his play in 89 and 90 and then his constant injuries and missing out on the playoff run in 91 would have made him a villian in the forum/blog world.

then in 92 everyone would have just jumped on the bandwagon.

I will say it again, aikman was awesome and so is romo.

 

[bbgun]

Aikman:
3 Super Bowl wins.
Super Bowl MVP trophy.
First ballot Hall of Famer.

Romo:
Good stats


Hmmmmm....

At one point he was 11-1 as a starter in the playoffs. And that wasn't accomplished by handing off to Emmitt all the time.

 

[Theebs]

Not sure why the 1991 reg season game at Detroit is relevant. We're talking about pissing away a sure win, like Romo did vs the Lions and Jets last season. Conversely, the 1991 game was tied at halftime and was never in the bag for Dallas.

just used it as an example because it was not one of aikmans better games and his poor play was a huge part of the loss.

Aikman in the great part of his career never had to worry about a game like that with emmitt in the backfield.