Cythim
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You are retarded.
- Thread starter superpunk
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You are retarded.
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Arguments for strong atheism
It is often said that one cannot prove a negative. However, this is not really correct, and understanding this hinges on understanding the difference between two kinds of truth: contingent and logical. A contingent truth is one whose validity is contingent on other facts which may or may not be true or known. Scientific truth falls in this category. A logical truth is one whose validity depends only on logic, on the definitions and properties of concepts we ourselves define. An example is whether 2 + 2 can equal 5. It follows from the definitions of 2, 4, 5, +, and = that 2 + 2 can only equal 4, not 5. It is not necessary for a reasonable, fair, and open-minded person to remain agnostic on that question. There is nothing contingent or unknown about it.
A strong atheist would argue that the idea of a god is logically contradictory and therefore cannot exist as most theists define the word. The Christian god is defined as an omniscient, omnipotent, intelligent, aware being which created and was responsible for the universe. The problem of evil is one example of a logical impossibility that comes from believing that the god is also omnibenevolent, this can be avoided by relaxing the requirements on God's qualities.
Since its inception, science has followed an empirical method, a combination of theory and observation. We construct our understanding by working from the simple to the complex. We understand atoms in terms of elementary particles and their forces, such as quarks, leptons, gluons, and photons. We understand molecules and chemistry in terms of atoms and their interactions. We understand biology in terms of the underlying chemistry and its emergent properties. We understand intelligence in terms of the complex interactions of the underlying neurological or electronic substrate.
Of all the things we know of in the universe, the most complex is intelligence. To posit an intelligence as the creator and driving force of everything else makes no sense, since it would itself require explanation in terms of simpler underlying entities. It makes no more sense than 2 + 2 = 5. It is not incumbent upon a reasonable, fair, open-minded person to remain agnostic on that point.
If there were in fact a deity delivering the divinely inspired word of the one true religion to the human race then it would be expected that all religions would converge on the same answers, yet that is not what we see. There are so many different religions with vastly different beliefs that one should question whether there really is an intelligence behind it all. Since religions diverge rather than converge, this should count as evidence against the proposition of a Theistic deity.
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Strong_atheism
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Pure atheism is very lazy.
Faith Person: I believe there is a God.
Atheist person: Nuh uh. That's dumb.
no u
skidadl
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:towel
peplaw06
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Have you been organizing your uncollection of baseball cards lately? You can't shut up about them lol
peplaw06
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They're benefits to you because emotionally you don't like those feelings. It's not knowledge. What other option is there if not emotional? Serious question.
The literal interpretation of the word atheist is "without god." You've made sure to specify that you are atheist. That's where I was coming from. I'm not going to argue with you over the types of atheism, because frankly I don't care what the differences are.
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You create a base of knowledge, emotions and feelings can come from that. Not sure what you are asking.
You said “Atheism is the belief there is no God”. You are claiming we are all Strong Atheists. That is not correct and i was trying to educate you on it since it does cause confusion. This definition would better reflect most Atheists: “A "weak" atheist is one who doesn't claim to know that there is no god, but instead simply lacks belief in a god.”
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Not really. I am not on the fence concerning Christianity. I do not believe it’s true. But i am open minded to anyone who has any proof.
Christians have to do two things. First prove that a god exists. Then prove they have the right one.
Sheik
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Are you aggressively trying to disprove Christianity?
Or waiting for a Christian to prove God exists and that he's a Christian God?
Im just wondering, because I've noticed you've said a few times that "Christians HAVE to prove, or show proof." , why does anyone have to prove it to you?
Im just curious.
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That’s like a car salesman walking up to customers and asking them “why are you always wanting me to sell you something?” It’s kindof the main reason god hasn’t taken you to heaven yet, right? Preach the Kingdom of God? Create signs and miracles, heal the sick, raise the dead? The bible commands you to provide proof.
peplaw06
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The Bible doesn't command me to prove to you that God exists scientifically. The Bible commands Christians to go teach others, and to live their lives in such a way that proves his existence. We will all make missteps, because we are human. But I'm confident in the fact that the overall actions that I take in my every day life evidence my beliefs. None of us here know each other in real life... pretty hard to prove something to someone by example with an internet persona.
You're stacking the deck. You know that God hasn't been proven scientifically by man, yet you require that kind of proof of us. Scientific proof of God would defeat the purpose of faith. It's easy to have faith that my house exists because I see, feel and touch it every day.
What would you say if you met God upon your death?
Sir, why did you take such pains to hide yourself?
-Bertrand Russell
By trying to adjust to the findings that it once tried so viciously to ban and repress, religion has only succeeded in restating the same questions that undermined it in earlier epochs. What kind of designer or creator is so wasteful and capricious and approximate? What kind of designer or creator is so cruel and indifferent? And—most of all—what kind of designer or creator only chooses to “reveal” himself to semi-stupefied peasants in desert regions?
-Christopher Hitchens
Sir, why did you take such pains to hide yourself?
-Bertrand Russell
By trying to adjust to the findings that it once tried so viciously to ban and repress, religion has only succeeded in restating the same questions that undermined it in earlier epochs. What kind of designer or creator is so wasteful and capricious and approximate? What kind of designer or creator is so cruel and indifferent? And—most of all—what kind of designer or creator only chooses to “reveal” himself to semi-stupefied peasants in desert regions?
-Christopher Hitchens
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Interesting quotes. Here's some more...
Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe.
-Peter Kreeft
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
-C.S. Lewis
If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped.
-Evelyn Underhill
Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
-Tom Stoppard
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
-Winston Churchill
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
-Heywood Broun
I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe.
-Peter Kreeft
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
-C.S. Lewis
If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped.
-Evelyn Underhill
Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
-Tom Stoppard
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
-Winston Churchill
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
-Heywood Broun
I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
skidadl
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As long as man tries to see God through worldly eyes he will continue to be frustrated. If you use logic to discover Him you probably will never find Him.
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Corinthians 2:14
What you are doing is demanding that God meet you on your terms, using things seen to prove Himself to you. Why should God come to you at the snap of your fingers? If you do not accept this, and if it makes you angry then just move along. As in every relationship, if you don't like what is being offered then just abandon the possibility of ever having this relationship. Writing pages upon pages makes you seem obsessive and little desperate.
Yes, I get it, this is America and you can talk about what you want to. Trust me, I am pretty glad that you are because it proves to me that you have a need for God in your life. If that's not it then what is it?
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Corinthians 2:14
What you are doing is demanding that God meet you on your terms, using things seen to prove Himself to you. Why should God come to you at the snap of your fingers? If you do not accept this, and if it makes you angry then just move along. As in every relationship, if you don't like what is being offered then just abandon the possibility of ever having this relationship. Writing pages upon pages makes you seem obsessive and little desperate.
Yes, I get it, this is America and you can talk about what you want to. Trust me, I am pretty glad that you are because it proves to me that you have a need for God in your life. If that's not it then what is it?