The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[Scot]

Ok, so how does this work?
(I was tooooo high in HS/College to remember anything from my poly sci class)

The Trump team needs to prove fraud in each swing state in an amount that will be larger than Biden’s lead in said state

I’m going to use hypotheticals here for ease of use

Let’s say Biden is ahead by 75k votes in XYZ state. So to overturn the results in said state, Trump would need to gain 75,001 votes in said state

So let’s say that Trumps team can actually prove that 15k votes were cast by dead people

10k vote were duplicate entries

20k votes were dropped off in the middle of the night the day after the election and are thus deemed invalid

30,001 votes were deemed invalid because the signatures didn’t match the corresponding envelope

(You can use which ever instance of fraud you want, it really doesn’t matter here)

So now Trumps team has proven that the magic number of 75,001 votes (enough to overcome Biden’s lead) are invalid

Now what?

Just because these votes are invalid doesn’t mean that they get removed from Biden’s total and added to Trumps total for said state

In the end, Trumps still loses

I’m not getting the end game here

Unless they can prove that votes were changed from Trump to Biden then it’s a moot point and they have no case

Or am I missing something here?

 

[yimyammer]

AG Barr to the associated press

DOJ has no evidence of fraud that would change the outcome of the election

Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud​

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but:

“to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

I did a search to find the full transcript of the interview or a video of the above quote but no luck. Its strange its not on video and/or we're not getting the entire interview which makes me question how accurate Barr's statements are being reported, seems everyone is twisting words to suit their needs so this would have been more impactful had they simply let Barr's words stand on their own merit

 

[Doomsday]

Unless they can prove that votes were changed from Trump to Biden then it’s a moot point and they have no case

That's what the promised kraken was supposed to be. That MILLIONS of votes got credited to Joe that were Trump votes.

That proved to be just a fart.

Dodger, I have been following this thread closely, reading everything at all the links provided, and have seen nothing at all they can take into federal court and get the wheels in motion to actually change anything.

And once Joe is inaugurated it's too late - we have no provisions either in the Constitution or case law that can remove a sitting President over election error. Once he takes office the game is over.

 

[Scot]

The only thing I see stopping Mr Magoo from becoming President in January is if there is an injunction that stops the entire election process

 

[This Bud's 4U]

Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud​

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but:

“to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

I did a search to find the full transcript of the interview or a video of the above quote but no luck. Its strange its not on video and/or we're not getting the entire interview which makes me question how accurate Barr's statements are being reported, seems everyone is twisting words to suit their needs so this would have been more impactful had they simply let Barr's words stand on their own merit

Barr's boy Durham hasn't been able to wrap up is investigation into the FISA atrocities in a year, but chubby boi can positively conclude that there was no significant election cheatery in the span of a month....

 

[This Bud's 4U]

Ok, so how does this work?
(I was tooooo high in HS/College to remember anything from my poly sci class)

The Trump team needs to prove fraud in each swing state in an amount that will be larger than Biden’s lead in said state

I’m going to use hypotheticals here for ease of use

Let’s say Biden is ahead by 75k votes in XYZ state. So to overturn the results in said state, Trump would need to gain 75,001 votes in said state

So let’s say that Trumps team can actually prove that 15k votes were cast by dead people

10k vote were duplicate entries

20k votes were dropped off in the middle of the night the day after the election and are thus deemed invalid

30,001 votes were deemed invalid because the signatures didn’t match the corresponding envelope

(You can use which ever instance of fraud you want, it really doesn’t matter here)

So now Trumps team has proven that the magic number of 75,001 votes (enough to overcome Biden’s lead) are invalid

Now what?

Just because these votes are invalid doesn’t mean that they get removed from Biden’s total and added to Trumps total for said state

In the end, Trumps still loses

I’m not getting the end game here

Unless they can prove that votes were changed from Trump to Biden then it’s a moot point and they have no case

Or am I missing something here?

Or am I missing something here?

Here's what you're missing....

Team Trump is able to persuade the legislators in right combination of three of the disputed states (magic number is 37 - there are only a few combinations that don't work) to declare their state's election so hopelessly corrupted that they refuse to choose electors....This leaves both camps below the required 270 EVs, throwing the selection process into the HoR.....Conventional wisdom has the count at 26 votes Trump, 23 Biden, with one state split.

This scenario is plausible enough that the Vegas oddsmakers currently have Trump pulling it off it at around 10%.

 

[Scot]

More fuel to the fire

 

[yimyammer]

This scenario is plausible enough that the Vegas oddsmakers currently have Trump pulling it off it at around 10%.

thats more about Vegas trying to balance the line to get equal action on both sides of the bet since they rake both sides. If there weren't so many people still betting on Trump, they'd have to offer longer odds for Trump to entice bettors.

So perhaps those betting on Trump know something we don't ( I doubt it) or people are taking WAY too short of a price to get a bet down on a Trump win

 

[Dodger12]

Dodger, I have been following this thread closely, reading everything at all the links provided, and have seen nothing at all they can take into federal court and get the wheels in motion to actually change anything.

And once Joe is inaugurated it's too late - we have no provisions either in the Constitution or case law that can remove a sitting President over election error. Once he takes office the game is over.

You're confusing the two issues Dooms. The election will not be overturned because of fraud. There's simply not enough time and no court will have the courage to do that. But if the SCOTUS rules that the state judges acted in violation of the constitution by changing the election laws and rules without the consent of the legislature(s), that would kick it back to the states to chose the electoral college.

In any event, like I've said from day 1, this is beyond Trump or Biden. The lawsuits against the states will continue even if it's during a Biden administration. Light needs to be shed on the madness.

 

[Doomsday]

But if the SCOTUS rules that the state judges acted in violation of the constitution by changing the election laws and rules without the consent of the legislature(s), that would kick it back to the states to chose the electoral college.

That's a pipe dream. To get it to the supremes you first have to get it into federal court. You have to have a case. There's simply no time to weave through the appeals courts to even consider the supremes. And I've seen no attempts to get this in federal court as yet.

 

[cml750]

That's what the promised kraken was supposed to be. That MILLIONS of votes got credited to Joe that were Trump votes.

That proved to be just a fart.

Dodger, I have been following this thread closely, reading everything at all the links provided, and have seen nothing at all they can take into federal court and get the wheels in motion to actually change anything.

And once Joe is inaugurated it's too late - we have no provisions either in the Constitution or case law that can remove a sitting President over election error. Once he takes office the game is over.

You may be way too quick to dismiss the "Kraken" as just a fart. All we have seen are press conferences and a law suit filing. The actual evidence is presented to the court. Yes time is running short but Sidney Powell is not some sleazy attention whore lawyer like Michael Avenatti. She is not the type to stake her stellar reputation on a just"fart". Time will tell what evidence she actually has.

 

[Dodger12]

That's a pipe dream. To get it to the supremes you first have to get it into federal court. You have to have a case. There's simply no time to weave through the appeals courts to even consider the supremes. And I've seen no attempts to get this in federal court as yet.

They have cases in federal court. If a judge rules against them, they appeal, and visa versa, until it works its way to SCOTUS. They just had an appeals court rule against them in the Middle District of PA without hearing any evidence (which Trump's team requested an evidentiary hearing). That case is being appealed and will probably reach SCOTUS for review. They could choose not to listen to the case, but that's different then saying they don't have cases in federal court.

 

[Dodger12]

I’m not getting the end game here

The end game is to have the states recognize their elections were compromised by mail in ballots and have the state legislatures pick the electorates.

As I mentioned earlier, Trump's team has a valid legal and constitutional argument which the SCOTUS must address. Changes to the states election laws can not be done by lawyers, governors, secretaries of state, local (elected) state judges and state supreme court judges. Changes to election laws can only be made by the respective state legislatures. If a state wanted to extend the voting deadline(s), they needed to pass that law/change in the state legislature. Covid or some other national emergency can not justify changing state laws outside the legislature.

If the SCOTUS rules that these changes are legal, they pretty much gut the separation of powers and rule state legislatures and their laws as having no real teeth and subject to changes by radical judges on either side. You guys are hung up the Kraken. These are two separate issues and legal challenges.

 

[This Bud's 4U]

Bizarre...

Chubby boy comes out yesterday to say that there's no evidence of fraud, while his DOJ says that they haven't yet completed the investigation.

If you had submitted what we're living through as a manuscript for a novel or screenplay, you'd probably be laughed out of the room as to the improbability of it.

DOJ Will Continue to Probe Claims of Election Fraud

The Justice Department is reiterating it has not concluded its investigation of possible election fraud and is vowing to pursue all specific and credible allegations of ballot fraud stemming from the presidential contest. A statement from a DOJ spokesperson came after The...

www.newsmax.com

 

[Doomsday]

You guys are hung up the Kraken.

Because it was like, promised and stuff.

Not sure the Feds can tell the states they have to follow their own procedures. Seems like if rules were changed outside the legislature's rule, it's an issue within that state.

Regardless, this shit is moving way too slowly. Inaguration ends it all as far as Trump keeping his seat.

By the way when they promise kraken and instead deliver only shit, it puts their competence in question.

 

[Dodger12]

Not sure the Feds can tell the states they have to follow their own procedures. Seems like if rules were changed outside the legislature's rule, it's an issue within that state.

It's an issue with the US Constitution and the Elections Clause. It's a federal issue.

Article 1 / Section 4 / Clause 1

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators.

 

[Dodger12]

By the way when they promise kraken and instead deliver only shit, it puts their competence in question.

Everyone, including myself, wants the proverbial "smoking gun." I can tell you haven't read the lawsuits that were filed. There are very serious allegations of fraud that will require hearing, discovery, depositions, etc. These folks are doing the country a service by exposing Dominion and their flaws, as well as monies that may have moved into political pockets to accept these flawed machines. Nothing on the "Kraken" lawsuits will be settled before the inauguration.

 

[cml750]

Because it was like, promised and stuff.

Not sure the Feds can tell the states they have to follow their own procedures. Seems like if rules were changed outside the legislature's rule, it's an issue within that state.

Regardless, this shit is moving way too slowly. Inaguration ends it all as far as Trump keeping his seat.

By the way when they promise kraken and instead deliver only shit, it puts their competence in question.

The Kraken has not gone before a court yet. We have not yet seen the Kraken only the press conferences and the law suit. The evidence will be shown to the court. I keep saying this but Sindney Powell is not like a scumbag Michael Avenatti. She is the real deal and has a sterling reputation. She is putting that reputation on the line for this. I seriously doubt she would do that if she had no evidence. It is not her job to convince you or any other citizen about the Kraken. She only has to prove it to the court. Time will tell if she actually can do that but up to now we have not seen the actual Kraken. We have only been put on notice she will show it to the courts.

 

[Dodger12]

I disagree that half our country knows that the election was a fraud.

Not all Trump supporters watch Newsmax or Fox. A good portion still watch mainstream media. So they are still being spoon fed that Trump is a sore loser and that the election was the most secure in history. A large portion of Trump followers were and probably still watch Fox. Even Fox is sounding like MSNBC nowadays.

The mainstream media juggernaut is mighty and all powerful and has been extremely efficient at getting out their narrative. I would guess 30% or less of Trump followers have their eyes wide open and see what is going on here

Even 30% of Dems think something was up......even if the numbers are off, that's still very telling....

 

[Doomsday]

Everyone, including myself, wants the proverbial "smoking gun." I can tell you haven't read the lawsuits that were filed. There are very serious allegations of fraud that will require hearing, discovery, depositions, etc. These folks are doing the country a service by exposing Dominion and their flaws, as well as monies that may have moved into political pockets to accept these flawed machines. Nothing on the "Kraken" lawsuits will be settled before the inauguration.

So by definition, we haven't been talking about Trump keeping his job. Which is what I've been saying.