Sabin: Changes making Cowboys what Garrett feared - rudderless team

[dbair1967]

Its all about the post count, you guys should know this

 

[Bob Sacamano]

2012 draft was not good.

Moving up for Claiborne was expensive and now with the scheme we are going to, a shut down "Deion-type" (jury is still out on that one) is not as much a need.

Crawford looks like maybe he'll be a rotation player at LDE. Wilber got nothing but bad reviews. Johnson is made of glass. Coale was cut and available to all other teams on our practice squad. Hanna was a really good pick but I have zero faith in McSurdy. Our chief talent evaluator raved over UDFA Leary having a 3rd round grade and being the most ready to play O Linemen in the draft, yet he was alao available to the entire league (on our Practice Squad) and never played a down for a team who was ravaged by OL injuries.

Fool yourself all you want but we did not have a good draft last year. Early to call? Sure. I'm still calling it now, bad draft.

Claiborne isn't a shut down CB. He gets carried way down the field, far too often.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I actually think we'll be fine with the draft. What they've been doing has been working in terms of drafting players (for the most part) so I'd be surprised if they do anything dramatically different than what they've done the past couple years.

I think they carry the RKG thing a little too far, but asides from that, and their belief that they can coach up every project Oline, and I think they're doing a good job.

 

[dbair1967]

Claiborne isn't a shut down CB. He gets carried way down the field, far too often.

He will be, especially with the quality DC we have now

 

[Bob Sacamano]

He will be, especially with the quality DC we have now

With the mix of man-coverage and zone that are utilized in a cover 2, I doubt that.

 

[marionbarberthe4th]

Not for nothing but The cowboys are a pretty good looking team, gotta say

 

[dbair1967]

With the mix of man-coverage and zone that are utilized in a cover 2, I doubt that.

I dont. 's an excellent player. Good coaches make good players look even better.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I dont. 's an excellent player. Good coaches make good players look even better.

How can you make a CB shutdown when he plays off of the WR? It defies physics.

Claiborne will probably be put into position to grab more interceptions with better coaches in this scheme, sure.

 

[dbair1967]

How can you make a CB shutdown when he plays off of the WR? It defies physics.

Claiborne will probably be put into position to grab more interceptions with better coaches in this scheme, sure.

He has great cover skills. A good coach will adapt what he does to fit each players strengths. I doubt he'll be playing way off alot.

I also suspect we'll be a far better pas rushing team with Marinelli coaching the DL's, and that will make the CB's look even betetr.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

True, like I said, he'll be spending part of his time in off-coverage where hopefully he can get a jump on the ball. The other part in man. That's what he really needs to do is recognize the route progression so that he can break on the ball when he's playing off the WR.

Hopefully another year working with Jerome Henderson and him continuing to put in film study will do the trick.

 

[cmd34(work)]

He has great cover skills. A good coach will adapt what he does to fit each players strengths. I doubt he'll be playing way off alot.

David, the Tampa 2 is all about staying in your zones and handing off players once they exit your zone. The need for a "shutdown" corner does not really exist in a Tampa 2. If disciplined and if quarterbacks get impatient, Claiborne has the opportunity to make plays. A bigger concern is what's expected in run support from Tampa 2 corners. Carr will be fine. Claiborne is slight. Jenkins would be a nightmare.

I also suspect we'll be a far better pas rushing team with Marinelli coaching the DL's, and that will make the CB's look even better.

IMO That's the trap a lot of Cowboy homers fall in. Marinelli is here now, everyone is automatically better. I like him as a coach but you know what makes players better? Being better. We need more talent there and we defintely need more youth.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah when's the last time we've had a coach show up and all of a sudden some scrub "gets it"?

The answer is never. Dez bloomed under Robinson but he was already a beast just took a few years to hit it.

Coaches are only as good as the talent you give them. If there's no baseline there won't be any results, as we've seen over and over again or do you forget how giddy you were that Houck was coming back?

 

[dbair1967]

David, the Tampa 2 is all about staying in your zones and handing off players once they exit your zone. The need for a "shutdown" corner does not really exist in a Tampa 2. If disciplined and if quarterbacks get impatient, Claiborne has the opportunity to make plays. A bigger concern is what's expected in run support from Tampa 2 corners. Carr will be fine. Claiborne is slight. Jenkins would be a nightmare.

He's said he might not play the Tampa 2 exckusively, but even if he does this obsession people have with "its a waste of shutdown CB's" is kinda goofy IMO. Any scheme has a place for guys who can cover. The advantage Claiborne might have once he learns the scheme is he has tremendous hands and long arms, with his closing speed he will probably get lots of chance to make plays where average guys might just get there to make the tackle.

IMO That's the trap a lot of Cowboy homers fall in. Marinelli is here now, everyone is automatically better. I like him as a coach but you know what makes players better? Being better. We need more talent there and we defintely need more youth.

Oh I agree, they have to have an influx of talent. But Marinelli has a history of taking guys who maybe werent all that highly regarded or well known and turning them into quality DL's too.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah when's the last time we've had a coach show up and all of a sudden some scrub "gets it"?

The answer is never. Dez bloomed under Robinson but he was already a beast just took a few years to hit it.

Coaches are only as good as the talent you give them. If there's no baseline there won't be any results, as we've seen over and over again or do you forget how giddy you were that Houck was coming back?

And of course the Callahan will fix it mantra.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

He's said he might not play the Tampa 2 exckusively, but even if he does this obsession people have with "its a waste of shutdown CB's" is kinda goofy IMO. Any scheme has a place for guys who can cover. The advantage Claiborne might have once he learns the scheme is he has tremendous hands and long arms, with his closing speed he will probably get lots of chance to make plays where average guys might just get there to make the tackle.




Oh I agree, they have to have an influx of talent. But Marinelli has a history of taking guys who maybe werent all that highly regarded or well known and turning them into quality DL's too.

Such as? 3 of his 4 man Buccaneer line were either 1st or 2nd round picks.

 

[dbair1967]

Such as? 3 of his 4 man Buccaneer line were either 1st or 2nd round picks.

Looks at the Bears. Peppers is about it for well known guys.

 

[cmd34(work)]

He's said he might not play the Tampa 2 exckusively, but even if he does this obsession people have with "its a waste of shutdown CB's" is kinda goofy IMO. Any scheme has a place for guys who can cover. The advantage Claiborne might have once he learns the scheme is he has tremendous hands and long arms, with his closing speed he will probably get lots of chance to make plays where average guys might just get there to make the tackle.

I don't think it's waste by any means. I like Claiborne and can't wait to see once his play catches up with his athleticism and confidence and he's making plays like he did in Baton Rouge.

My point is that Jerry justified the big trade up by saying he's a shutdown corner (always good to have) and one of the highest rated corners since Deion (Cowboys rankings, never heard anyone else claim this). That was crucial in Rob Ryan's defense. He needed the corners to be able to mainitain coverage for longer than what most corners are asked to do. Kiffin doesn't ask his corners to do this. He really expects a lot out of his Safeties and his Middle Linebacker.

 

[dbair1967]

I don't think it's waste by any means. I like Claiborne and can't wait to see once his play catches up with his athleticism and confidence and he's making plays like he did in Baton Rouge.

My point is that Jerry justified the big trade up by saying he's a shutdown corner (always good to have) and one of the highest rated corners since Deion (Cowboys rankings, never heard anyone else claim this). That was crucial in Rob Ryan's defense. He needed the corners to be able to mainitain coverage for longer than what most corners are asked to do. Kiffin doesn't ask his corners to do this. He really expects a lot out of his Safeties and his Middle Linebacker.

Just because he hasnt asked them to in the past doesnt mean he cant take advantage of those kinds of guys if he has them.

I think you are right about the physical part vs the run being a concern for Claiborne, even Henderson said it should be a focus of his offseason this year, getting stronger. Remember last year he basically couldnt do any upper body workout all year because he was recovering from wrist surgery right after the bowl season.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Looks at the Bears. Peppers is about it for well known guys.

Stephen Paea was a 2nd round pick. And despite only starting 11 games at DE in college after switching from RB, Henry Melton was still a 4th round pick (had a pretty good Senior Year and blew up at the Combine too).

So Kiffin hasn't exactly been a charlatan.

 

[GloryDaysRBack]

lets say we dont have claiborne...

we damn sure dont have money for jenkins...so now CB is a major need right now...