Punish Law Abiding Citizens and Ignore Criminals. Great Plan. Fucking Idiots.

Hoofbite · Apr 4, 2013

ScipioCowboy said:
Violent crime has been on the decline for about 20 years now, and during that period, we've seen a loosening of gun laws and regulations.

Interesting.

Could you provide a couple sources to check out?

Also, what is your avatar picture? Can't read it.

ScipioCowboy · Apr 4, 2013

Hoofbite said:
Interesting.

Could you provide a couple sources to check out?

This is a Gallup Poll that shows the drop in violent crime over the past 20 years. It uses the Justice Bureau as the source for its statistics.

I can't attach this image, but it's pretty cool. It shows the increase in right-to-carry states since 1986. Give it a second to load.

http://subdude-site.com/WebPics/WebPicsMaps/map_rightToCarry_increaseByState_1986to2006_a676x509.gif

Also, what is your avatar picture? Can't read it.

It's a comparison between the Reagan and Obama recoveries using GDP and unemployment.

JBond · Apr 5, 2013

Hoofbite said:
Yeah, yeah. I get your stance on the democratic position. I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions of your own or if you can at least point me in the direction of the republican proposals that will reduce gun violence. You can't tell me that "enforcing current laws" is all there is.

I don't know about the Gifford aspect you are referring to. Can you post a link that has what you are talking about.

I'm also kind of confused on how you just say "enforce current laws". There's a couple of things but mainly, law enforcement is only as reliable as the law enforcer which happens to be us humans. Notoriously compromised; ethically, rationally, and just about in any other way you can imagine. Nobody is perfect, some are more fucked up than others, and some just can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground. Are these people not already told to enforce the laws that are out there? If not, why?

Also, the idea of being staunchly in favor of current laws while also being just as equally opposed to prospective laws is kind of confusing.

Against prospective laws because they won't work; in favor of current laws because they would work if enforced....with current laws being prospective laws from the past that were likely shit on at the time of their proposal.

Who's making these distinctions on what will work and what won't and what are they basing it on?

You are easily confused then. I am not "staunchly" in favor of ever law in every jurisdiction. In the Gifford case if the sheriff had charged the nut job and he was convicted for his previous threats to kill people he would not have been able to purchase a gun. It's not rocket science.

The biggest way to reduce violence in society is through family and faith which is problematic when you consider the out of wedlock birth rates and lack of faith among the groups most likely to commit a crime.

My point is people that know nothing about guns, clips, ammo, or what the hell even a bullet is are making arbitrary laws that will have no effect on the issue except to restrict the rights legal gun owners and punish law abiding citizens.

There is no magic bullet solution to the problems of our society, but to arbitrarily punish those that have done nothing wrong for the sins of another is stupid and shows how little the lawmakers really care about the issue. They all have various agendas. Most of them are seeing big dollar signs by attaching random taxes to items to cover for their own incompetence regarding budgeting.

A link regarding the Gifford shooter
http://m.npr.org/story/132780313

superpunk · Apr 5, 2013

JBond said:
The biggest way to reduce violence in society if through family and faith

So weird that our prisons are full of men of faith.

VTA · Apr 5, 2013

superpunk said:
So weird that our prisons are full of men of faith.

Are you in Saudi Arabia?

superpunk · Apr 5, 2013

nah 'Murica.

VTA · Apr 5, 2013

We're just a misunderstood bunch. :roythehammer

ScipioCowboy · Apr 5, 2013

We need some gulags up in here.

JBond · Apr 5, 2013

superpunk said:
So weird that our prisons are full of men of faith.

no they are not, but they are filled ass pirates. You would be right at home with that special prison loving.

iceberg · Apr 5, 2013

Hoofbite said:
Yeah, yeah. I get your stance on the democratic position. I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions of your own or if you can at least point me in the direction of the republican proposals that will reduce gun violence. You can't tell me that "enforcing current laws" is all there is.

I don't know about the Gifford aspect you are referring to. Can you post a link that has what you are talking about.

I'm also kind of confused on how you just say "enforce current laws". There's a couple of things but mainly, law enforcement is only as reliable as the law enforcer which happens to be us humans. Notoriously compromised; ethically, rationally, and just about in any other way you can imagine. Nobody is perfect, some are more fucked up than others, and some just can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground. Are these people not already told to enforce the laws that are out there? If not, why?

Also, the idea of being staunchly in favor of current laws while also being just as equally opposed to prospective laws is kind of confusing.

Against prospective laws because they won't work; in favor of current laws because they would work if enforced....with current laws being prospective laws from the past that were likely shit on at the time of their proposal.

Who's making these distinctions on what will work and what won't and what are they basing it on?

looks like actually making suggestions gets ignored.

i put out something i thought was rational and would address the situation and no one replied.

JBond · Apr 5, 2013

iceberg said:
looks like actually making suggestions gets ignored. i put out something i thought was rational and would address the situation and no one replied.

guns bad is all they know. Things like protecting students and proper training fly right over their heads.

MetalHead · Apr 5, 2013

In other news,the gun store that legally sold Mrs Lanza her firearms,lost their FFL.
I call that BULLSHIT.

Hoofbite · Apr 5, 2013

iceberg said:
looks like actually making suggestions gets ignored. i put out something i thought was rational and would address the situation and no one replied.

I didn't know you were responding directly to me. Looked like an article and didn't actually see it until I had responded to Jbond.

I'll take a look and see what it says though.

Hoofbite · Apr 6, 2013

iceberg said:
i think more education is the answer, not spreading fear and crap along the way. the video jon88 posted a great example. the D congresswoman in colorado has ZERO IDEA what a high capacity mag is, yet they must be done away with.

then obama comes out and flat out lies about the newton shooting.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...0-children-fully-automatic-weapon_714527.html

At a fundraiser last night in San Francisco, President Barack Obama said that the Newtown killer gunned down 20 children using a "fully automatic weapon." From the official transcript, provided by the White House:

Now, over the next couple of months, we’ve got a couple of issues: gun control. (Applause.) I just came from Denver, where the issue of gun violence is something that has haunted families for way too long, and it is possible for us to create common-sense gun safety measures that respect the traditions of gun ownership in this country and hunters and sportsmen, but also make sure that we don’t have another 20 children in a classroom gunned down by a semiautomatic weapon -- by a fully automatic weapon in that case, sadly.

According to the prosecutor, Stephen J. Sedensky III, the killer, Adam Lanza, "killed all 26 victims inside Sandy Hook Elementary School with a Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle before taking his own life with a Glock 10 mm handgun. He says Lanza had another loaded handgun with him inside the school as well as three, 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster," ABC previously reported.

Each of the guns used is a semi-automatic weapon, and not one is an automatic weapon.

So either Obama is wrong--or he revealed something last night about the massacre that hasn't yet been known.

-----
now, what exactly does he want? he's a "gun person" also but yet he doesn't want people to know FULLY AUTOMATIC GUNS are very hard to get and the paperwork is endless in some cases - as is the people who will have to know you have one. even our military doesn't use fully auto weapons anymore.

but that doesn't spread the fear.

so i'm back to education. if you want to have a concealed gun, you must take a class, get your background checked heavily, and take some practice on the gun range before you can have it.

expand this out to "before you can buy a guy, you must be educated on it". if you want guns, then take a day long class and 1/2 day training on the range and you get a permit and no need to run a check every time you go buy a gun. you've invested in your knowledge, you've shown you can handle and clean one, that's it. do a massive background check before you take the class, get approved for it and get your permit.

every other year, take a 1/2 day refresher and renew it.

everything else is just spreading fear to scare people who really have no idea the differences between a 10/22 and an AR/15.

or that a mag can be reloaded and used again.

Education might work. In general though I think most gun owners are educated. At least the one's who would be willing to take the steps if it was required are.

Education doesn't mean that somebody wouldn't go out and shoot people though. That's the problem. There's really no way to stop fucked up people from doing crazy shit.

Nobody has the answer for that. As far as CC licenses go, they might be a process but I know someone who shouldn't have one, or probably have guns period because of mental instability, and yet he does.

iceberg · Apr 6, 2013

Hoofbite said:
Education might work. In general though I think most gun owners are educated. At least the one's who would be willing to take the steps if it was required are.

Education doesn't mean that somebody wouldn't go out and shoot people though. That's the problem. There's really no way to stop fucked up people from doing crazy shit.

Nobody has the answer for that. As far as CC licenses go, they might be a process but I know someone who shouldn't have one, or probably have guns period because of mental instability, and yet he does.

no. there's not.

so why do we keep trying to regulate it?

VTA · Apr 6, 2013

iceberg said:
no. there's not.

so why do we keep trying to regulate it?

To maintain the pretense of self determination and worse, for some to grab power.

It's funny how some like to (understandably) laugh at the 'war on drugs' for it's failure - the 'system' couldn't keep people from partying, or drugs out of their own institutions, (prisons) and wound up costing us I don't know how much.

They're going to control guns? New laws for law abiding citizens and more monetary waste. A vocal majority is going to have to wake up and recognize this charade for what it is and stomp down on the few that can't see this isn't going to accomplish anything good.

Minimalist · Apr 6, 2013

Shocked to see an intelligent discussion amongst both sides. This might be the first I've seen....seriously.

VTA · Apr 6, 2013

What's up min?

Sheik · Apr 6, 2013

Minimalist said:
Shocked to see an intelligent discussion amongst both sides. This might be the first I've seen....seriously.

Like my old buddy Hostile says, "post more, seriously."

Sheik · Apr 7, 2013

iceberg said:
no. there's not.

so why do we keep trying to regulate it?

It falls into the category of "They mean well.", they just need to stop thinking with their bleeding hearts.

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