Orlando Gay nightclub terrorist attack leaves 50 dead

[cmd34]

Not trying to go all Hostile here, but I've been in firefights. Sometimes in villages with friendlies. More guns would not have made things better.

In Arizona (open carry state) when I first moved here in 2010 there was a shooter at a Baja Fresh near the Chandler mall. These "concerned citizens" started firing and made things significantly worse. The cops couldn't identify who the actual shooter was and these morons were shooting at cops, civilians, and property. Everyone thinks they are Billy Badass with their gun but the truth is that most people are not cut out to make rational decisions in the middle of a gunfight. It's what the military and police are for.

Now, in your own house, protecting yourself and family against an intruder? Absolutely. I still think the assault rifles cause as many problems as they can potentially solve, but by all means, people should have (licensed/registered) handguns in their homes.

 

[Hoofbite]

I wonder how many of the dead would be alive if someone in that club was carrying?

The very thing lefties hate was the thing that stopped more people from dying. Not a law, not a regulation, a fucking gun. A guy with a gun showed up and ended the senseless violence.

They don't want to prevent these types of things.

Then they want to take away the ability for folks to stop these types of things.

Someone at the club was carrying. 2 people, I believe. They were cops who were there for additional security. Exchanged fire with the guy and then he barricaded himself inside.

 

[Hoofbite]

For me it's pretty simple. Pretty much all of these things happen in gun free environments. These type of people go where they think they'll encounter the least resistance to their plans.

It's like candy from a baby to them. All they have to do to inflict the maximum chaos is seek out an easy target.

I don't hear much about Muhammed going into a bar in Texas and trying this shit. The moment he pulls his gun and people realize what it is, he'd have 35 holes in his torso.

More guns, imo, owned by responsible people, makes a community that much safer.

Criminals don't give a shit about gun laws and gun regulation. By definition they don't pay any mind to laws. So essentially enacting more law and regulation, you restrict more law abiding citizens who will follow the laws and enable non law abiding citizens, more commonly known as criminals because they will continue to circumvent the law.

Does Texas actually allow firearms in bars?

 

[Doomsday]

I do not understand anyone who thinks more guns is a realistic solution.

It's widely believed mainly because of Hollywood that the old west was nothing but constant gun fights, when the truth us, they were extremely rare. No one's calling for "more guns" insomuch as they are for "more freedom to carry guns if desired."

I hadn't heard that yet.

He was off-duty, I made a typo. But yeah, he confronted the perp inside the club and lost the shootout that followed.

For me it's pretty simple. Pretty much all of these things happen in gun free environments. These type of people go where they think they'll encounter the least resistance to their plans.

It's like candy from a baby to them. All they have to do to inflict the maximum chaos is seek out an easy target.

I don't hear much about Muhammed going into a bar in Texas and trying this shit. The moment he pulls his gun and people realize what it is, he'd have 35 holes in his torso.

More guns, imo, owned by responsible people, makes a community that much safer.

Criminals don't give a shit about gun laws and gun regulation. By definition they don't pay any mind to laws. So essentially enacting more law and regulation, you restrict more law abiding citizens who will follow the laws and enable non law abiding citizens, more commonly known as criminals because they will continue to circumvent the law.

Boom.

 

[peplaw06]

Does Texas actually allow firearms in bars?

Texas is open carry now... but you can't carry in places that derive 51%+ of their business from the sale of alcohol (aka bars).

 

[Dodger12]

Missed my point entirely.

Looking "hard" at people before allowing entry doesn't change anything if they are natural citizens. They're already here. Closing down borders to certain populations doesn't even begin to address this problem.

I didn't miss your point at all Hoof. Quite simply, these folks shouldn't even be here. Reports are starting to trickle in about the shooter's father who has made anti-gay comments and is pro-Taliban. He has a TV show geared towards Afghan nationals in the US and he's pro-Sharia law, anti-gay and anti-US.

What the fuck is this guy even doing here? His son never had a chance to assimilate because his father was probably just as radical as he was. People need to wake up. This shit doesn't just happen in a vacuum.

 

[Hoofbite]

I didn't miss your point at all Hoof. Quite simply, these folks shouldn't even be here. Reports are starting to trickle in about the shooter's father who has made anti-gay comments and is pro-Taliban. He has a TV show geared towards Afghan nationals in the US and he's pro-Sharia law, anti-gay and anti-US.

What the fuck is this guy even doing here? His son never had a chance to assimilate because his father was probably just as radical as he was. People need to wake up. This shit doesn't just happen in a vacuum.

Whether or not they should be here isn't really even worth discussing. Agreed, extremist religious nuts shouldn't be in the US.

The reality is, however, that they are here. In this particular case, the guy's dad came to the USA at least 30 years ago. Little late to be asking, "why?", decades after the fact.

Blocking immigration, building a wall, and doing all sorts of rash shit at this point isn't going to do anything to address the fact that decades of immigration have already occurred and the potential for naturalized US citizens to be recruited for terrorism exists.

 

[onlyonenow]

Whether or not they should be here isn't really even worth discussing. Agreed, extremist religious nuts shouldn't be in the US.

The reality is, however, that they are here. In this particular case, the guy's dad came to the USA at least 30 years ago. Little late to be asking, "why?", decades after the fact.

Blocking immigration, building a wall, and doing all sorts of rash shit at this point isn't going to do anything to address the fact that decades of immigration have already occurred and the potential for naturalized US citizens to be recruited for terrorism exists.

of course it will not stop those already here. But it will stop more from coming in so we can deal with just what we have here NOW.

 

[onlyonenow]

by the way CMD. There are more guns in the US then ever before but overall violent crime is down. The level of crimes with guns have remained fairly constant I believe if not going down.

So how does your claim more guns causes more problems have any evidence to support it?

 

[Sheik]

Texas is open carry now... but you can't carry in places that derive 51%+ of their business from the sale of alcohol (aka bars).

I didn't know that.

Thanks.

 

[Doomsday]

In any event, even the most ardent gun rights advocates must surely agree a dimly lit bar with loud music and alcohol flowing rapidly isn't the place to have lots of armed people. Ever hear of the "Aggie firing squad?"

 

[Sheik]

I agree, a bar isn't the best place to have a loaded weapon, but my point remains.

These cowards only pull this shit where the least resistance is possible.

And the liberal politicians that spend their time trying to convince their sheep that guns are bad, well not too far from where they stand when they say this shit, there are heavily armed people who are paid to keep them from being killed by crazy people that have guns.

So I say this, until the government wants to provide every citizen with an equal security outfit, they can go fuck themselves with a thousand dildos dipped in glue, glass, and AIDS blood.

 

[Doomsday]

These cowards only pull this shit where the least resistance is possible.

Orrrrrr, they do like this perp and scout the location. He had the tactical advantage - he knew there was one armed guard, and the guard didn't know he was coming. Doesn't make him any less of a coward though, maybe makes him even more so.

And yep, the Pelosi's and the Hillary's of the world want to take our firearms, but get to be covered by many such, on our dime. But we can thank Oswald for that one. It's prudent.

 

[Dodger12]

Whether or not they should be here isn't really even worth discussing. Agreed, extremist religious nuts shouldn't be in the US.

I disagree; it's the primary thing we should be discussing because if we don't admit or acknowledge that these folks shouldn't be here, then we'll continue to allow them in like the Syrian refugees.

The reality is, however, that they are here. In this particular case, the guy's dad came to the USA at least 30 years ago. Little late to be asking, "why?", decades after the fact.

It's not too late when we continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. This should be another wake up call but it won't be.

Blocking immigration, building a wall, and doing all sorts of rash shit at this point isn't going to do anything to address the fact that decades of immigration have already occurred and the potential for naturalized US citizens to be recruited for terrorism exists.

So we should just continue down the same path? Is that your answer? Our immigration policy hasn't worked. Our current environment and situation should dictate a response and it should start with securing our borders and keeping people from high risk countries and religions from entering this country. And that's just a good start.

 

[dbair1967]

For starters, all the people cheerleading this immigration garbage need to understand that it isn't the right of the world to be able to come here and stay.

You and I cant simply pack up and move to any other country and stay there the way people are coming here. And I'm willing to bet no other countries would be giving hoards of free shit and financial support for you to do it either.

There's a process involved. Except when it comes to people wanting to come here, and then people don't want any process involved.

 

[Doomsday]

There's a process involved. Except when it comes to people wanting to come here, and then people don't want any process involved.

The "process" has become untenable. Takes 10 years and 50 grand? Needs to be fixed.

For starters, all the people cheerleading this immigration garbage need to understand that it isn't the right of the world to be able to come here and stay.

We welcome immigration and always have. What other countries do is their business. What we do is, offer the lone bastion of freedom and prosperity left in the world.

 

[Sheik]

Post 1970, how many illegal immigrants do you think could pass the naturalization test?

 

[dbair1967]

We welcome immigration and always have. What other countries do is their business. What we do is, offer the lone bastion of freedom and prosperity left in the world.

This is crap Dooms, you sound like a liberal.

People coming to our country should be for the benefit of our country. If there's nothing for us to gain and they are adding nothing, they shouldn't be coming. That means they need to be productive people who want to achieve, abide by our laws and customs and make efforts to assimilate to our country's beliefs. Not come here, leach off our tax payers, ransack our communities, kill people, blow shit up, crash our education & healthcare systems etc etc

 

[dbair1967]

Post 1970, how many illegal immigrants do you think could pass the naturalization test?

not very many

 

[Doomsday]

Not come here, leach off our tax payers, ransack our communities, kill people, blow shit up, crash our education & healthcare systems etc etc

I never said anything like that was in any way acceptable. I merely illustrated that even though there isn't some written "right" to come here, we welcome immigration and always have. And always should.

You'll note I am talking immigration, not illegal immigration.