NFL.com writer: Five of top six Cowboys draft busts picked during Jerry Jones era

[sbk92]

You cant have it both ways. Romo turned out to be a probowl calibar QB. Pro Bowl QB's are easily worth using first rd picks on. Would you not agree?

The bolded statement is part of my argument. Were alot of the players drafted by Jones ultimately "bad" players? Yes. But alot of those guys WERE drafted where (or close to where) they were supposed to go. Carver wasnt universally regarded as a middle round pick or free agent type player, everybody had him rated fairly high. The only exception I know of is Ron Wolf, and his comments about Carver were years after the fact. So there's no way of knowing if its really what he thought at the time of the draft or not, we just have to take his word for it.

Alot of the drafts were bad or poorly run. 1995, 1996, 2000 and 2001 were all horrendously run and executed. But Carver was worthy of where he was picked (coming out). So was David LaFleur. So were Greg Ellis and Ebenezer Ekuban. So was Roy Williams.

I don't see your point.

Even if what you say is true, who cares? They were bad picks.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

dbair must be coming up with a good one.

 

[dbair1967]

I don't see your point.

.

The point is this:

I asked you if you thought using a 1st rd pick on Tony Romo in 2003 would have been worth it and you said no, because he would have been vastly overdrafted. So you are agreeing with my point of view in that where a player is rated should be factored into to how you view a draft initially. You cant tell me that drafting Romo in the first round is bad because he would have overdrafted, yet also tell me drafting a guy like Shante Carver (who was rated as a late 1st/early 2nd) was bad because ultimately he didnt pan out. You cant have it both ways. If you believe what you say about Carver, then you'd have to say using a 1st rd pick on Romo would have been smart.

My argument isnt that Carver was good, its that he went about where he was expected to go. I dont fault people for picking players about where they are supposed to go. I fault people when they vastly overdraft somebody and said player bombs, draft a player with tons of red flags that everyone knows about and said player bombs, or you totally butcher a draft with a bad trade/trades. Jones is guilty of all these things, but some of the players you slam him for were not bad picks at the TIME THEY WERE SELECTED.

 

[dbair1967]

(the team that traded us the pick we took Shante Carver with. Yes, we actually traded up to get him)

At the time, this was my bigger problem with picking Carver. they could have probably stayed where they were and got him, or Henry Ford.

There are a lot of 1st round busts throughout the history of the draft but not many were out of the league as fast as Carver was.

He ended up out of the league more because of a serious drinking problem than anything else.

He ended up a bust, but again most of the draft guides and gurus all had him rated somewhere between 20-40 in that draft.

 

[Midswat]

This isn't defending our drafts from 1994-2002, or the GM, but I think we all could agree that part of the reason so many of those players failed can be attributed to piss poor coaching and otherwise organizational structure. You can lay both at the feet of Jerry as well.

Had some of those guys been drafted by non-shat teams and received quality coaching, their careers might have panned out differently.

 

[sbk92]

The point is this:

I asked you if you thought using a 1st rd pick on Tony Romo in 2003 would have been worth it and you said no, because he would have been vastly overdrafted. So you are agreeing with my point of view in that where a player is rated should be factored into to how you view a draft initially. You cant tell me that drafting Romo in the first round is bad because he would have overdrafted, yet also tell me drafting a guy like Shante Carver (who was rated as a late 1st/early 2nd) was bad because ultimately he didnt pan out. You cant have it both ways. If you believe what you say about Carver, then you'd have to say using a 1st rd pick on Romo would have been smart.

My argument isnt that Carver was good, its that he went about where he was expected to go. I dont fault people for picking players about where they are supposed to go. I fault people when they vastly overdraft somebody and said player bombs, draft a player with tons of red flags that everyone knows about and said player bombs, or you totally butcher a draft with a bad trade/trades. Jones is guilty of all these things, but some of the players you slam him for were not bad picks at the TIME THEY WERE SELECTED.

Every player I mentioned was a bad pick at the time they were selected.

You're polishing a turd here.