Newman just tweeted he is back

[RoyTheHammer]

He played from the jax game on with a serious injury on a bad team....lots of guys would have mailed it in...

He has been a good player here, ifyou don't think so that's fine.

All corners get beat, we are much better with him and what is coming in the two games after this week we will need Newman and scandrick just to compete...

Wit our current corners we will lose to Detroit and new England by double digits....we have not had to defend the whole field yet...those guys will make us...need Newman.

We won't lose to Detroit by double digits, relax. I do think Newman is solid corner, i don't think he's elite though. He gives up alot of receptions and first downs underneath, and to this day, with his athleticism i still don't know why he starts every play 10 yards off the ball.

 

[Idgit]

Dude. He's defending Ball's play while criticizing Newman's. He's not going to suddenly know what he's talking about when it comes to CBs.

He played from the jax game on with a serious injury on a bad team....lots of guys would have mailed it in...

He has been a good player here, ifyou don't think so that's fine.

All corners get beat, we are much better with him and what is coming in the two games after this week we will need Newman and scandrick just to compete...

Wit our current corners we will lose to Detroit and new England by double digits....we have not had to defend the whole field yet...those guys will make us...need Newman.

 

[Theebs]

We won't lose to Detroit by double digits, relax. I do think Newman is solid corner, i don't think he's elite though. He gives up alot of receptions and first downs underneath, and to this day, with his athleticism i still don't know why he starts every play 10 yards off the ball.

Coaches call plays, he is not in charge of scheme.....

If that is your beef with him that is not much to dislike him over honestly.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Coaches call plays, he is not in charge of scheme.....

If that is your beef with him that is not much to dislike him over honestly.

I don't have a beef with him. I don't even know him. I said, i think he's a solid corner.. but he's not elite. He gives up alot of catches underneath, just like we're all criticizing Ball for right now. Is he an upgrade for our secondary? No doubt. Are we getting back an all pro? Hell no.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Coaches call plays, he is not in charge of scheme.....

If that is your beef with him that is not much to dislike him over honestly.

Also, im pretty sure when you're in man coverage, coaches don't tell you how far off the receiver you HAVE to be. You think the coaches were telling our most athletic DB, "Hey T New.. start 10 yards off the LOS every play. What? Yea, i know you've been giving up catches underneath and big first downs all year, but don't worry about that, just keep doing it."

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Dude. He's defending Ball's play while criticizing Newman's. He's not going to suddenly know what he's talking about when it comes to CBs.

Im saying Ball has held his own in 2 games where he had to play alot so far this season, and pointing out that Newman is a solid, though not an elite CB.

Both pretty rational stances if you ask me, but of course you're the expert here, right bud?

lol.. please.

 

[Theebs]

I don't have a beef with him. I don't even know him. I said, i think he's a solid corner.. but he's not elite. He gives up alot of catches underneath, just like we're all criticizing Ball for right now. Is he an upgrade for our secondary? No doubt. Are we getting back an all pro? Hell no.

Different discussion...who said anything about elite? IMO there is no such thing as an elite corner in this era...

I will contend you can take any of the top 20 wr the league has...whoever that is....and take any corner believed to be elite and line them up and any of those wr with avdecent qb will win the matchup 8/10.

 

[Theebs]

Also, im pretty sure when you're in man coverage, coaches don't tell you how far off the receiver you HAVE to be. You think the coaches were telling our most athletic DB, "Hey T New.. start 10 yards off the LOS every play. What? Yea, i know you've been giving up catches underneath and big first downs all year, but don't worry about that, just keep doing it."

Your not paying close enough attention, scheme and offensive alignment dictates that.

Corners are not simply allowed to free lance and line up where they want.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Different discussion...who said anything about elite? IMO there is no such thing as an elite corner in this era...

I will contend you can take any of the top 20 wr the league has...whoever that is....and take any corner believed to be elite and line them up and any of those wr with avdecent qb will win the matchup 8/10.

This is all semantics, you said he was excellent, i said the definition of excellence must have been watered down to call him that. There's nothing concrete to debate here.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Your not paying close enough attention, scheme and offensive alignment dictates that.

Corners are not simply allowed to free lance and line up where they want.

When they are in man coverage, you don't think corners have a little leeway as to what they want to try to do with their man, or if they want to lineup 5 yards off him or right up against the LOS based on what they think he's trying to do? I see CB's creeping up and backing off a few yards every game. They don't have a set amount of yards they HAVE to be off the line at all times.

 

[Theebs]

This is all semantics, you said he was excellent, i said the definition of excellence must have been watered down to call him that. There's nothing concrete to debate here.

No i guess there isn't.

 

[Idgit]

Im saying Ball has held his own in 2 games where he had to play alot so far this season, and pointing out that Newman is a solid, though not an elite CB.

Both pretty rational stances if you ask me, but of course you're the expert here, right bud?

lol.. please.

One of the two games you're saying Ball held his own, he was being targeted and the coaches had to compensate for his play. He's an ok dime back, that's about it.

You're in the middle of backpedalling on Newman. I'll wait until you finish and see where you end up before saying anything else. There's still a chance we'll end up in agreement.

And I'm no expert. I only know enough not to praise our liabilities and bash our better cover guys. That just happened to be enough in this case to make me look like the expert.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

One of the two games you're saying Ball held his own, he was being targeted and the coaches had to compensate for his play. He's an ok dime back, that's about it.

You're in the middle of backpedalling on Newman. I'll wait until you finish and see where you end up before saying anything else. There's still a chance we'll end up in agreement.

And I'm no expert. I only know enough not to praise our liabilities and bash our better cover guys. That just happened to be enough in this case to make me look like the expert.

I'd love for you to show me how im backpedaling on Newman. I said im glad he's back, he's a solid corner, but he's not elite at all. Please show me where i've said anything different, thanks.

Im saying Ball played well because he's not expected to be a starter right now and yet he's being forced to start and even play slot CB, the hardest position in the secondary, and he's holding his own. He did well against the Jets, and he let up a few short receptions against the Niners, but no major mistakes, no big plays against him.. though he made a big play of his own.

I simply said he's holding his own and deserves some credit.. which i think is very reasonable. I know everyone wants to hold him to last years performance and bash him unconditionally, but i happen to think he has some value as a corner and still could develop and get better if he ever gets the mental aspect of the game because i really like his physical ability.

 

[Idgit]

I'd love for you to show me how im backpedaling on Newman. I said im glad he's back, he's a solid corner, but he's not elite at all. Please show me where i've said anything different, thanks.

Im saying Ball played well because he's not expected to be a starter right now and yet he's being forced to start and even play slot CB, the hardest position in the secondary, and he's holding his own. He did well against the Jets, and he let up a few short receptions against the Niners, but no major mistakes, no big plays against him.. though he made a big play of his own.

I simply said he's holding his own and deserves some credit.. which i think is very reasonable. I know everyone wants to hold him to last years performance and bash him unconditionally, but i happen to think he has some value as a corner and still could develop and get better if he ever gets the mental aspect of the game because i really like his physical ability.

Sure thing. Here're the quotes reflecting your initial stance on Ball and Newman:

...i honestly don't believe a healthy Newman would have done any better against the Niners. I guess we all forgot how many receptions Newman gave up in front of him last season.

And then, after Theebs' quote here:

You should be happy. He is an excellent player and has traditionally been great against washington....

You trot out this:

I guess the definition of excellence has fallen off lately..

I give a shit.. because i said he only gave up a few receptions and all for short yardage.. so i thought he held his own, along with forcing the turnover. You had to jump in with your "Alan Balls iz garbges" bs, so i asked just how bad do you think he actually did, and you respond with "who gives a shit?".

Again, not suprised.. btw, know who gave up alot of first downs on third down last season? Bet you'll never guess..

And here's where your stance shifts:

I don't have a beef with him. I don't even know him. I said, i think he's a solid corner.. but he's not elite. He gives up alot of catches underneath, just like we're all criticizing Ball for right now. Is he an upgrade for our secondary? No doubt. Are we getting back an all pro? Hell no.

Im saying Ball has held his own in 2 games where he had to play alot so far this season, and pointing out that Newman is a solid, though not an elite CB.

Both pretty rational stances if you ask me, but of course you're the expert here, right bud?

lol.. please.

Apart from the tongue-in-cheek cracks at Newman, the shift is from 'i honestly don't believe a healthy Newman would have done any better against the Niners' at the beginning of the thread to 'Is he an upgrade for our secondary? No doubt.'

And I should clarify, I'm not bagging on Ball necessarily. He's played as he should be expected to play: as a 4th or 5th CB pressed into starting duty. But he was a liability last week. He was specifically targeted by the Niners, and our DC had to make adjustments at half time to stop him from being exposed on every third down and long. You saying you honestly don't think Terrence Newman could do any better is what prompted me to say you don't have any idea what you're talking about. But only because you really don't.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Apart from the tongue-in-cheek cracks at Newman, the shift is from 'i honestly don't believe a healthy Newman would have done any better against the Niners' at the beginning of the thread to 'Is he an upgrade for our secondary? No doubt.'

If you take note, i said all Ball gave up really were a few short yardage receptions.. which again, is what i said Newman gave up alot of last year.. leading to my take that Newman really wouldn't have been all that better than Ball if he had played. Its really pretty logical if you think about it. Newman in space by himself is the same as Ball in space by himself.. their man is going to beat them without help a majority of the time. You could say the same for most corners though.

Newman is still an upgrade to our secondary though, as i did state.. because now we can trot him out there on one side of the field instead of friggin McCann or Walker. Again, its all very logical if you take 2 seconds to try and understand it. There's nothing extreme about anything i've said.

 

[NoDak]

I give a shit.. because i said he only gave up a few receptions and all for short yardage.. so i thought he held his own, along with forcing the turnover. You had to jump in with your "Alan Balls iz garbges" bs, so i asked just how bad do you think he actually did, and you respond with "who gives a shit?".

Again, not suprised.. btw, know who gave up alot of first downs on third down last season? Bet you'll never guess..

I'm starting to think you are retarded. First, when people start with the mongoloid spelling as a retort, they just. have. nothing. Second, the original statement was that Alan Ball played a good game. That was the point of contention. People disagreed, saying he was giving up 1st down conversions at an alarming rate. You came in with he "only gave up a few short receptions." Now, you're trying to bring some other CB into the conversation to deflect.


Alan Ball is a good CB who played a good game Sunday. You go with that, Ruprecht.

 

[Idgit]

If you take note, i said all Ball gave up really were a few short yardage receptions.. which again, is what i said Newman gave up alot of last year.. leading to my take that Newman really wouldn't have been all that better than Ball if he had played. Its really pretty logical if you think about it. Newman in space by himself is the same as Ball in space by himself.. their man is going to beat them without help a majority of the time. You could say the same for most corners though.

Newman is still an upgrade to our secondary though, as i did state.. because now we can trot him out there on one side of the field instead of friggin McCann or Walker. Again, its all very logical if you take 2 seconds to try and understand it. There's nothing extreme about anything i've said.

I didn't say there was anything extreme. I said its wrong. And that it was wrong because you don't know what you're talking about. Pointing out the parts of your posts that aren't objectionable, or at least that I haven't taken the time to criticize doesn't change anything.

Whatever point you're trying to make now that Newman 'wouldn't have been all that better than Ball' is lost on me. He would have been better than Ball. Much better. Because he's a better player.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I'm starting to think you are retarded. First, when people start with the mongoloid spelling as a retort, they just. have. nothing. Second, the original statement was that Alan Ball played a good game. That was the point of contention. People disagreed, saying he was giving up 1st down conversions at an alarming rate. You came in with he "only gave up a few short receptions." Now, you're trying to bring some other CB into the conversation to deflect.


Alan Ball is a good CB who played a good game Sunday. You go with that, Ruprecht.

 

[Midswat]

Newman wouldn't have done any better. Is Newman an upgrade to our secondary? Sure. But... uh... even an upgrade wouldn't have done any better.

It's all logical if you take two seconds to think about it.

amirite?

 

[Rock Slamdance]

Ha! Ruprecht. Nice.