Gay and against gay marriage

[VTA]

Greatest commandment FTW.

Love God love your neighbor.

Love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself.
That's an important distinction.

 

[superpunk]

The fact that popular empathetic opinion is shifting so far away from the religious right should make them wake up a bit and reevaluate - but in true Radical form, it just makes the devout dig in futher as they misguidedly interpret our progress as "persecution" of their bigoted religious beliefs.

yup. The poor persecuted Christians. Just like Jeebus sed in his book.

 

[VTA]

There'll be talk of how it is diferent, but it's simply subjective posturing to validate that continued hatred.

:jerry

 

[superpunk]

Your delusion is deep. I know, I used to be the same way. Get help, wake up, quit wasting your life.

 

[VTA]

Your delusion is deep. I know, I used to be the same way. Get help, wake up, quit wasting your life.

Were you a Jehovah's Witness?

 

[superpunk]

No, I was Christian. Then I woke up.

 

[2233boys]

Love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself.
That's an important distinction.

Jesus never spoke of hating anyone. There are far to many Christians that say they love Jesus but forsake the greatest commandments. You can't say you love Christ and hold out hatred or animosity to a certain segment if the population. Jesus preached love above all else. He didn't persecute the "lesser or outcasts" of society. He embraced them. Loving God doesn't mean you can persecute others or treat others with disdain.

I get not wanting churches forced to marry people if they don't want too, and they shouldn't have too. Marriage simply isn't just a religious ceremony anymore because the government recognizes them. If you want it to be simply religious institution again then the government needs to stop being in the business of marriage.

 

[JBond]

OK that's true. But the possibility that another group might want rights in the future shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing now. It's easy enough to say ok you can have these rights, and at the same time work on reforming our warped view of the entire institution.

The extra expense incurred because you are deprived of the rights of hetero's is the issue.

So it is about the money? Really? How much should it cost? It is not about the religious aspect, it is just dollars. Spend the money and stop being such a fucking cheap ass.

or is it really about taking an institution that is based on religious ceremony and twisting it into something it is not, because you hate religion?

 

[superpunk]

No it's about money and legality.

Saying "You can have nearly the same rights as long as you're willing to drop a few grand, and have those rights stripped if you move to a state where your union isn't recognized" isn't the same thing as saying "You can have the same rights."

I hope you understand that.

 

[2233boys]

I do agree that there is a very vocal minority that espouses hatred towards Christians. Superpunk and Jon are examples of those people. Their hatred and venom aren't anymore rational then this Christians who do the same to homosexuals.

 

[superpunk]

Christians are fine.

Bigots are not.

Unfortunately, Christianity lends toward bigotry. So you get alot of overlap. If everyone was like you, 2233, we'd have no problems.

Unfortunately, the problem is so insitutionalized at this point that you can't just blame it on radicals. Just like with Islam, the "radicals" are closer to a literal interpretation of Christianity than the moderates. And in almost all cases, moderation in religion is not self-generated. What does that mean? Progressivism in religion is, of necessity, only driven by the masses, not from the religion itself. The religion is based on text that doesn't change - the only thing that can change is the interpretation of that text. So, in progressive regions, you see progressive interpretations. In more repressed regions, you see oppressive interpretations. All you have to do is look at Catholicism's influence on Africa and South America contrasted with us for evidence of this.

Noone hates Christians or Christianity. We hate the bigots produced by them.

 

[JBond]

Jesus never spoke of hating anyone. There are far to many Christians that say they love Jesus but forsake the greatest commandments. You can't say you love Christ and hold out hatred or animosity to a certain segment if the population. Jesus preached love above all else. He didn't persecute the "lesser or outcasts" of society. He embraced them. Loving God doesn't mean you can persecute others or treat others with disdain.

I get not wanting churches forced to marry people if they don't want too, and they shouldn't have too. Marriage simply isn't just a religious ceremony anymore because the government recognizes them. If you want it to be simply religious institution again then the government needs to stop being in the business of marriage.

You do understand the history of why the government got involved...The pretense was to promote a more healthy, stable society.... allegedly.

Now it is about penalizing people financially for the same event. Funny how that changed.

If homosexuals want to have a gay little church and a little piece of paper that says there're married, then so be it. Same for those that want to fuck chickens. They can get married at the cluck house for all I care. What I do not want for them to do is impose their view of the world on me and my church.

 

[VTA]

Jesus never spoke of hating anyone. There are far to many Christians that say they love Jesus but forsake the greatest commandments. You can't say you love Christ and hold out hatred or animosity to a certain segment if the population. Jesus preached love above all else. He didn't persecute the "lesser or outcasts" of society. He embraced them. Loving God doesn't mean you can persecute others or treat others with disdain.

I get not wanting churches forced to marry people if they don't want too, and they shouldn't have too. Marriage simply isn't just a religious ceremony anymore because the government recognizes them. If you want it to be simply religious institution again then the government needs to stop being in the business of marriage.

And Jesus preached more on hell than he did on heaven. And why did he do that? Because there do exist consequences and love doesn't conquer all. Evil people have love, yet they are not loving Christ in their decisions and thats what loving God above all else means. And when he healed, he did say 'sin no more'. He embraced the sinner and assured them of forgiveness, he didn't allow them to wallow in their sins and encourage them to continue.

We are admonished to love each other and leave the consequences to God, but were also admonished to speak the truth about God's word and to do anything else in the name of anything and calling it love is dishonest to God. You seem unwilling to acknowledge between someone able to recognize a wrong from all abiding hate. I don't hate anyone and I can sit down and talk and eat and get along with anyone and I do. I spent the holiest of our holidays (yesterday) with two gay people included and managed to get out without pointing my finger in judgement and casting them into eternal fire. But that's a comic book view of what a Christian acts like and no one claiming to be progressive or educated can cling to it and still maintain that they are anything of the sort.

My feelings about their choices doesn't bring me to think I have to do the Lords work and punish people any more than I should run away in case they get gay on my kid. My job is to ove them and set an example of how I'll honor God's word. And I genuinely do like the people I deal with and they know I'm Christian. yet they don't feel the need to get indignant. Imagine that?

My issue on the marriage issue is that it's not simply about that. They can fight for civil unions without dragging the church into it and assuring all that they wouldn't. But since they don't I have no reason to believe it's simply about civil unions. You don't have to set up a straw man enemy to get something unless you're being dishonest.

 

[2233boys]

No need for the government to be in the marriage business.

 

[JBond]

No it's about money and legality.

Saying "You can have nearly the same rights as long as you're willing to drop a few grand, and have those rights stripped if you move to a state where your union isn't recognized" isn't the same thing as saying "You can have the same rights."

I hope you understand that.

You do not think that a marriage of a man and women comes with expenses? Drawing up a solid prenup is not cheap. Plus thousand of high heeled shoes and makeup are expensive...well I guess that could apply in both cases.

No one is saying you can not write a contract. Your objection appears to be cost. Call it a civil union and make the rates affordable. The reason you get so much push back is because you are perverting the original meaning of marriage.

 

[VTA]

And also:

But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. - Jesus Revelation Chapter 2:6

 

[jnday]

Marriage is between a man and a women. It is a religious institution. It has been that way for thousands of years and should remain that way. Gays can face it that their relationships doesn't qualify for some things. They do qualify for civil unions. I don't hate the sinner, I hate the sin. This country was built on Christian values , but many people have become too arrogant to admit that. The latest research shows that more than 90% of US citizens believe in God. I assume they also believe in God's word, which clearly states that homosexual behaviour is wrong. Why wonder about the decline in America when it is easy to see that getting away from his word is the reason?

If this is going to be a secular society, there should be no marriage, only civil unions.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Gay and against gay marriage? This must have been written by dberryair.

 

[superpunk]

This thread is a case study in delusion and bigotry. The sad part is that these are really your thoughts on the matter.

 

[JBond]

I think it is clear who is delusional. The guy that wants to take a word and completely change the meaning of it and pervert an institution because he is too lazy and cheap to create his own completely different institution for a completely different act, or the people that say go fuck anywhere and anyone you want and quit bugging us regarding your own issues and hang-ups.

Fuck a frog for all I care. Beg the government for a piece of paper. It matters little to me. Just do not ask my church to condone your activities. Live and let live. I know how it will turn out. You make your decisions and live with them.