Gay and against gay marriage

[superpunk]

Finally agree with you on something about religion. As a Christian I never understood how those who say they were Christians can talk about others with such hate and venom.

"love thy neighbor, unless you know, they're fags. In which case, say that you love them, but don't actually treat them like real people"

2nd Luke somewhere

 

[VTA]

It is literally insane how warped your perspective is on this. As though the position of "da church" is the default value, rather than the one where - you know - we've all got the same rights.

And the severe case of denial you have about the very real efforts of Christian hate groups all over the nation (most of them with the term "Family" somewhere in the title, Focus on the Family, etc) to keep gays from having the same rights as straight people is just flat out crazy. Just because you believe in a fairy tale doesn't mean you have to live in one. Quit lying.

Ironically, it's how I feel about you. This post in no way addresses what I'd said. If you want to what, use Phelps as a barometer on how to judge, then by all means you'll have absolutely no ground for indignation if I or anyone uses the same scale for measuring another's worth. You're being ridiculous and short sighted.

Da Church is based on God's word. So yes, we view it as default, if you don't believe that's your will and no one is denying you of any right to that or gaining secular goodies. Christians don't create 'groups'. They create churches and study the bible and go on humanitarian missions. Any well-dressed finely coiffed goon going on TV is for your edification, not mine or anyone else seeking God. Simply if that's how you identify 'Christians', understand you're being laughed at by people who know better.

 

[VTA]

"love thy neighbor, unless you know, they're fags. In which case, say that you love them, but don't actually treat them like real people"

2nd Luke somewhere

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

But hey! Ass sex is A-ok, despite my earlier judgements of it throughout history! - Unwritten message within a message. :/

 

[superpunk]

The only way your stance works is if you narrowly redefine "christian" to your warped perspective on what a true christian is. Take that no true scotsmen shit somewhere else.

 

[superpunk]

"Do what you want. I'm the almighty creator of the fucking universe. Do you really think I'm petty enough to give two shits where you stick your dick? Hell, one of my most faithful servants (I gave him DAP in Hebrews) was Lot, and that nigga fucked both his daughters."

-Actual God.

 

[VTA]

Yes genius. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Matthew 7:14

Jesus wasn't kidding.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Marriage privatization. If you want real "marriage equality" (i.e. anyone can marry whomever he or she loves, provided he or she can give legal consent), privatization is the only intellectually honest way to go.

 

[superpunk]

Marriage privatization. If you want real "marriage equality" (i.e. anyone can marry whomever he or she loves, provided he or she can give legal consent), privatization is the only intellectually honest way to go.

But rather than change the entire system, maybe we can just stop being stupid and let everyone have the same rights for now. We'll get to overall reform later.

 

[VTA]

Marriage privatization. If you want real "marriage equality" (i.e. anyone can marry whomever he or she loves, provided he or she can give legal consent), privatization is the only intellectually honest way to go.

A civil union can be had, with all the tax bennies, etc. It's a secular issue that doesn't even have to make mention of religion or church.

If you choose to do it in a church that's your choice, plenty do not and it's still recognized legally. A Vegas wedding is recognized, without anyone whining about the church. Both sides of the coin take up the argument automatically without even thinking about it. My view of marriage remains under God's purview and it won't change, but I couldn't care less about someone's civil union.

 

[superpunk]

A civil union can be had, with all the tax bennies, etc. It's a secular issue that doesn't even have to make mention of religion or church.

Oh I see.

The problem isn't (completely) that you're a bigot, the problem is also that you're completely uneducated on the differences between civil unions and marriages.

 

[VTA]

Oh I see.

The problem isn't (completely) that you're a bigot, the problem is also that you're completely uneducated on the differences between civil unions and marriages.

The problem is your comic book view of how life works.

 

[2233boys]

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. - Matthew 5:28

But hey! Ass sex is A-ok, despite my earlier judgements of it throughout history! - Unwritten message within a message. :/

Greatest commandment FTW.

Love God love your neighbor.

 

[2233boys]

I think what vta is worried about is that churches will be forced (no matter what their stance on gay marriage) to perform marriages for gay couples.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

But rather than change the entire system, maybe we can just stop being stupid and let everyone have the same rights for now. We'll get to overall reform later.

You're not letting everyone have the same rights. You're just playing musical chairs with who's being discriminated against. There are loving unions beyond heterosexual and homosexual couples.

Besides, you're not reforming the system. You're doing away with marriage certificates. All the rights and privileges associated with marriage can be covered under existing contract law. I venture doing away with legally recognized marriage would actually be easier than fighting this gay marriage battle in the courts.

 

[superpunk]

You're not letting everyone have the same rights. You're just playing musical chairs with who's being discriminated against. There are loving unions beyond heterosexual and homosexual couples.

Such as?

Besides, you're not reforming the system. You're doing away with marriage certificates. All the rights and privileges associated with marriage can be covered under existing contract law.

Not really, and besides that can be expensive to have legal documents drawn up to grant you all the rights as a couple you should simply be entitled to because it's what's fair. I don't believe all states recognize civil unions, and I don't believe the federal government gives two shits about them. Saying "you can have the same rights as us if you hire a lawyer to draft expensive legal documents and then possibly be covered" is not the same thing as "you can have the same rights as us."

 

[JBond]

Funny how so many are demanding rights to a religious ritual that do not believe in God. I am still confused why guys who ram their dicks up each others asses want a church to sanction it in clear violation of most church's belief system. The self absorbed will do anything for attention. Remember it was the Obama voters that voted for prop 8 in overwhelming numbers.

 

[superpunk]

Why, when bigots and homophobes discuss gay marriage - do they appear to be so concerned with the sexual acts of gays - rather than the love two people feel for each other that leads them to want to marry?

Very interesting.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Such as?



Not really, and besides that can be expensive to have legal documents drawn up to grant you all the rights as a couple you should simply be entitled to because it's what's fair. I don't believe all states recognize civil unions, and I don't believe the federal government gives two shits about them. Saying "you can have the same rights as us if you hire a lawyer to draft expensive legal documents and then possibly be covered" is not the same thing as "you can have the same rights as us."

There's poly-amorous groups. There's polygamous groups. There's a whole big world out there.

What's fair is equal access, rights? Provided everyone has the same access to the legal documents, it's fair in a legal sense. You wouldn't make the documents "more available" or "less expensive" to any one type of marital unions because the government would no longer acknowledge marital unions. It becomes a privatized system.

Moreover, expense isn't a barrier to marriage privatization. Marriages are already expensive with their own set of legal hangups. That's why many people forgo them.

 

[superpunk]

There's poly-amorous groups. There's polygamous groups. There's a whole big world out there.

OK that's true. But the possibility that another group might want rights in the future shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing now. It's easy enough to say ok you can have these rights, and at the same time work on reforming our warped view of the entire institution.

Moreover, expense isn't a barrier to marriage privatization. Marriages are already expensive with their own set of legal hangups. That's why many people forgo them.

The extra expense incurred because you are deprived of the rights of hetero's is the issue.

 

[VTA]

I think what vta is worried about is that churches will be forced (no matter what their stance on gay marriage) to perform marriages for gay couples.

I honestly think it's larger than that. It's an anti-Christ spirit of moving towards persecution of Christians.

You already see the one sided hate in this discussion from someone pretending to espouse tolerance and the understanding of love, yet magically misses the nuances of human life without stark blacks and whites of love/hate agreement/disagreement.

This generation thinks it has progressed. Simply because it has refocused it's hatred into another area or demographic. The progressive 'we' assures all that since they no longer hate blacks they're advanced, despite the obvious hatred they have for another group of people for different reasons. Yet hate is hate. And of course as convincing as it was as to why blacks were inferior in the ago, so too are the arguments against those hateful bigoted Christians. There'll be talk of how it is diferent, but it's simply subjective posturing to validate that continued hatred.

Mind you, I'm neither surprised nor overly concerned. I read the bible every day and it basically tells of what we're seeing and I'm far from being caught off guard.