Dez's contract situation may turn ugly

[Statman]

I'm not saying Dez isn't a great WR. I'm not saying his success is strictly circumstance. I know Irvin had Emmitt, that was my point.

Their success fed off each other and that was true of Dez and DeMarco. Its tragic that we couldnt keep them both, in part, because Dez isn't going to be as dangerous without him.

I appreciate the use of stats when making a point, far better than the lazy personal attacks I've seen on other forums that bring nothing to the table. I think there are some who forget this is a discussion forum, there are going to be differences of opinions.

As far as stats, the general ones tell a very basic story. Its the situational ones that can tell a deeper story, that's why the 1st and ten numbers are important, it illustrates the inseperable contributions by the players to each others success.

We should have been able to keep both Dez and DeMarco, it's a tragedy that they won't be playing together.

 

[DezIrvin]

Like dez wasnt wrecking shop when we were the worst rushing attack in the league? What are you even talking about?

 

[Statman]

Like dez wasnt wrecking shop when we were the worst rushing attack in the league? What are you even talking about?

You cannot play your first playoff game, the most important game up to that point in his career, and come away with 3 receptions, 2 of them for 3 yards apiece. Are you really trying to tell me that a 34 year old Rashean Mathis with occasional help from a safety, was capable of blanketing an elite player to that degree for almost the entire game? Luckily, Dez recovered the fumble he had from his first reception.

But okay, so he had another chance to show what he could do the following playoff game...3 receptions again, this time for 38 yards. He didn't catch a pass until 5 minutes left in the 1st half.

We are talking about a WR that plays alongside the #1 ranked QB and the #1 ranked RB in the league that season. I mean, against undrafted, pedestrian CB Tramon Williams and rookie free safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix?

I'll say it again, Elite players play at an elite level in their most important games. If you have to point to regular season stats to justify a player being elite then he is not elite.

Nobody cares when you catch 12 balls for 145 yards against the Browns in November. Nobody cares if you catch 11 balls for over 150 yards in a pivotal December game when you only catch one of them in the 4th quarter of a 36-37 loss.

Dez is a great player but he is far from elite status. He will be considered elite when he is no longer remembered for passes he ALMOST caught.

 

[NoShame]

Stop it. You sound like a fool.

 

[Midswat]

Barry Sanders wasn't elite, based on Rainman. I mean Statman.

 

[Midswat]

It's like someone got Doomsday wet and he's multiplying like gremlins.

 

[boozeman]

It's like someone got Doomsday wet and he's multiplying like gremlins.

 

[Statman]

Is anybody capable of responding with a valid point that refutes my opinion? Personal attacks, name calling, not-so-witty-remarks are common place on other forums. I sensed that this forum was different and it is for the most part. I understand if you disagree and I respect your right to do so.

Furthermore, I understand your desire to designate Dez as elite, he is the best homegrown receiver since Michael Irvin and many of you have little or no experience watching and witnessing the Cowboys in dominant form. Based on your experience Dez is elite in that he has produced numbers worthy of national attention. He is your guy. IO really understand this. I appreciate and respect that.

I think that many of you have to learn how to think outside of your self in a perspective that doesn't include being a diehard Cowboy fan. Believe me, I know how difficult that can be. Also believe that I only criticize Cowboy players when discussing them with other Cowboy fans, I am one of you! If I am discussing the Cowboys with fans of another team, then I am describing how Dez will tear apart their defensive backfield. He just needs to give me more ammunition in elimination games, that's all. I'm sure he will at some point.

Perhaps you haven't had enough exposure to an "elite" fan......

 

[Rock Slamdance]

Statman, a couple things. Not every post needs to be three paragraphs long. Also, you kind of come off pompous. Basically calling us plebes.

 

[Statman]

Correct on both points, no denying them.

I could discuss the Cowboys all day, difficult to stop. But this is a discussion forum, not a text forum, some if you are going to have to learn this. Discussions can be more informative, they can involve multiple sources of information, and should, if they are to be regarded as reputable. If someone has a point to make they should be capable of reinforcing that point or it just becomes another blustering, empty statement.

As far as being pompous, no defense.

 

[bbgun]

Personal attacks, name calling, not-so-witty-remarks are common place on other forums.

actually, all those things are strictly verboten at CZ. here, you can speak your mind without fear of infractions, bannings, etc. gotta have a thick skin, though. we've bounced maybe two or three regular posters over the years due to extreme circumstances and that's about it.

 

[Midswat]

Everyone acknowledges Dez as an elite receiver right up there with Calvin.

Your opinion is so in the minority and baseless that "debating" it is moronic. I might as well debate with my four year old daughter who is convinced unicorns exist.

If you want people to take you serious, stop being a dumbass. Because honesty you just seem like you're trolling for traffic.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

If you're a top-3-4-5 player at your position, you're elite. That's basically it. You don't have to do it in Superbowls or championship games -- that makes no sense.

Now elite all time? No, not yet. But judging a player only on postseason is crazy.

 

[peplaw06]

As far as stats, the general ones tell a very basic story. Its the situational ones that can tell a deeper story, that's why the 1st and ten numbers are important, it illustrates the inseperable contributions by the players to each others success.

That's the thing though... you only want to talk about the situational stats that you bring up. Someone brings up franchise records and Brandon Weeden and you ignore it.

 

[peplaw06]

It's like someone got Doomsday wet and he's multiplying like gremlins.

 

[cmd34]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Not to bust in on you morons repeating yourselves; but Dez and the FO sat down on Saturday or Sunday I believe to try and get some headway in negotiations before the 15th. How much they made is yet tbd.

 

[Statman]

Moronic...dumbass...midswat, you are a true intellectual giant.

ThoughtExperimenr, are you saying that the top 3-4-5 re rivers deserve the record breaking contract Dez is asking for, because that is the point of this discussion and the reason WS delved into the meaning of the word "elite".

Peplaw, the job of a receiver, or any player, is to do all they can to contribute to their team winning that game. The entire reason for winning that game is to determine the best team. The. East team of all is determined by the. Championship games.

Sometimes a receiver may only catch a few balls, understood. However, when you have everything on the line, everything that you have worked for, practiced for, sweat for, bled for, would't an elite player find a way to make that play? Isn't that what being elite is all about. Stats are simply the means to an end. The end result is winning and losing.

Do I really come of as pompous? I've asked around and all my minions disagree. That's "everyone", Midswat.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

ThoughtExperimenr, are you saying that the top 3-4-5 re rivers deserve the record breaking contract Dez is asking for, because that is the point of this discussion and the reason WS delved into the meaning of the word "elite".

Yes, that's kind of the way it goes. Barring a serious injury or character concerns or a player getting older, the top players get the highest contracts. Then as newer, younger, better players emerge, they get even higher contracts as league revenues and the team caps go up.

As far as whether it's the smartest move for the teams to play those huge contracts, that could be argued. But if anyone is in a position to pay up, I'd say we are. We do have a top QB who only has a few years left.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Around here, statman; we call ThoughtExperiment, thoughtexpired because his abilities to communicate his thoughts rationally expired a looooooooong time ago.