Britain votes to exit EU

[NoMoRedJ]

No, it's just a reality.

When you put such a tariff on, what do you think happens? The manufacturer just pays it? No, they factor it into the price of the goods. Therefore, it's actually passed on to us.

Same fucking reason raising federal tax on corporations inside the US is just a fucking tax on us. Corporations don't pay taxes, we do when we buy their stuff.

Well, of course and then when consumers go ahead and pay the prices it continues.

The idea isnt to raise prices for consumers , its to get jobs and production HERE. Once again, why would Americans be against production here? It can be done so goods are affordable and it can be done so we have jobs here and people make a decent living. The problem is the greed, not any possible tariff. The problem is the greedy corporations and Wall Street.

Oh & BTW, I hate Bernie. I dont have to be a Bernie supporter to see the greed.

 

[Doomsday]

The idea isnt to raise prices for consumers , its to get jobs and production HERE.

The "idea" can't and won't be accomplished with protectionist tariffs.

The problem is the greed, not any possible tariff. The problem is the greedy corporations and Wall Street.

Nooooo! The problem is punitive taxation and regulation by a out of control, too large and too broad in scope federal government, and the union parasite killing the host!

The "greedy" corporations have a fucking LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY to the shareholders, to maximize profit! It's the fucking LAW! Calling it "greed" is just a red herring and a deflection away from the actual problems!

So they take their manufacturing operations overseas or to Mexico, to be free of the parasite and the punishment!

why would Americans be against production here

Look at what's been happening, and it's pretty easy to identify who's against it. Globalists.

 

[NoMoRedJ]

Globalists.

Bingo!

Its not about corporations being greedy to adhere to some law. And its not about so called "isolation." Its all about corporate profits with the blessing of big government. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Why do some ignore the fact that people aren't just wage earners, they're consumers. When you "bring that job back" from China or Mexico, the worker here cannot possibly do the job for as little as his Chinese or Mexican counterpart. Literally he can't, because of our minimum wage which is multiples higher. So as Dooms says, it's a tax on ourselves. Costs of basic goods for people are going to be not just a few percentage points higher, but MUCH higher.

Here's a question: If you want to be isolationist country-wide, why not make it even smaller? Why not deal only with people in your own state, or even county or city? How do you think that would work?

None of this has anything to do with Wall Street tricking us. This is basic economics that has nothing to do with the stock or bond markets.

 

[dbair1967]

His lone idea to save money is to "eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse." That's not going to do anything.

That sounds like the typical liberal mantra. Eliminating all the b/s up there will absolutely do something.

And as fyi, just because it might not make a major dent in the ridiculous 19+ trillion in debt we are doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. This is OUR fucking money they are throwing away.

You can't make meaningful spending cuts until you get serious about Social Security, Medicaid and the defense budget. Those three areas make up 65% of the federal budget.

Something needs to be done about entitlements, no doubt. The problem is when one particular party or group of conservative people suggests some course of action, the democrats run to the masses and the media screaming to high heavens that old people are hated, children and women are hated, poor people are hated etc etc

So then he cuts taxes... bringing in a trillion or so less revenue.

This is another liberal theme and has been disproven time and time again. Slashing our ridiculous corporate tax rate and making it more penal for companies to outsource jobs (something Trump also supports) creates more people in the workforce here, which vastly increases revenues to the government. Getting more people back to work and doing something to grow the middle class (unlike Obama, who has done everything possible to increase dependence on government and shrink the middle class) also reduced people's dependence on government, which means less people on government assistance, which saves tons of money.

Trump is running as a conservative, so he can't tell his base that he's going to tax more... that would be a non-starter. But if he came in and said he was going to cut spending, the base would love him too, right? But he hasn't done that either. He's going to have to do one of the two, or he'll just bankrupt the country.

He said he's going to slash individual and corporate taxes, which is a principle conservative ideal.

Bush 41 said he wouldn't have any new taxes either, then he went back on his word. I suspect that's what Trump will do as well.

We shall see I guess. I'd rather take my chances with Trump though over Hillary, who I know is going to continue vast out of control spending, almost assuredly continue to raise corporate and middle/higher income earners fed income taxes, doesn't believe in capitalism and has overseen some of the worst foreign policy decisions in the history of our country. In addition she loves radical Muslims, loves PlannedParenthood, loves Black Lives Matter and a whole host of other loser groups.

 

[dbair1967]

He doesn't. He has exactly ZERO proposals to do any of that, in his official platform, on his site. He has TALKED about it, but then said taxes "would necessarily have to go up" as well.

He has nothing at all resembling a conservative platform, when it comes to fiscal matters.

This is why arguing with you is like arguing with a small child. You obviously haven't read anything on his website, particular the part about taxes.

 

[junk]

Holy shit this is painful to read. A bunch of opinion and conjecture without any linked data to back up a position on either side.

All the claims, on either side, should be able to be backed up with a link or links defending your position with hard data.

At least then you can argue data which is much more productive and educational than whatever this is

 

[NoMoRedJ]

Holy shit this is painful to read. A bunch of opinion and conjecture without any linked data to back up a position on either side.

All the claims, on either side, should be able to be backed up with a link or links defending your position with hard data.

At least then you can argue data which is much more productive and educational than whatever this is

Or if you have a brain you can use some plain old common sense and dont need "data" for everything. Nothing wrong with data at all. Its just not needed for everything. Some things are just obvious if you're willing to see.

 

[NoMoRedJ]

Why do some ignore the fact that people aren't just wage earners, they're consumers.

True statement but also used as an excuse to justify the greediness.

Why cant we have wage earners here make a decent living AND still afford to buy product produced here?

Why is it that other countries all around the globe can produce affordable product and we cant?

Oh sure we can throw out the "tax" excuse and some others, but bottom line is its corporate greed sponsored by our govt and a greedy broken health care industry. Things do NOT have to be as they are. Setting things right for America as a country and for the middle class isnt impossible nor will it make it so wage earners cant afford to buy product.

 

[Doomsday]

This is why arguing with you is like arguing with a small child. You obviously haven't read anything on his website, particular the part about taxes.

Yeah, all I did was read Trumps policy stances from his own website, that most people don't even know are there and have been for months. I Took it from the horse's mouth instead of from a Dallas Cowboys site. And you don't have shit to come back with, because you haven't bothered to take a good read of Trump's actual proposals and instead just fell in love with his blatherskite.

Its not about corporations being greedy to adhere to some law. And its not about so called "isolation." Its all about corporate profits with the blessing of big government.

So, in your world the government should be against profits. Got it. Are you nuts? Or simply just not thinking?

We're first and foremost a CAPITALIST republic. That's why it is THE LAW for companies to maximize profits to the shareholders and protect the shareholders' interests. Calling it "greed" is about the thought level of a 3rd grader.

Why is it that other countries all around the globe can produce affordable product and we cant?

I just fucking explained that. Likely you're not bothering to read.

 

[Doomsday]

Oh sure we can throw out the "tax" excuse and some others, but bottom line is its corporate greed sponsored by our govt and a greedy broken health care industry. Things do NOT have to be as they are. Setting things right for America as a country and for the middle class isnt impossible nor will it make it so wage earners cant afford to buy product.

Greedy Greedy Greedy!

You sound just like a little 3rd grader who learned a new word today and has exactly zero idea of what it really is.

 

[NoMoRedJ]

Greedy Greedy Greedy!

You sound just like a little 3rd grader who learned a new word today and has exactly zero idea of what it really is.

And you sound like somebody with his head up his ass who seems happy with the status quo.

 

[Doomsday]

And you sound like somebody with his head up his ass who seems happy with the status quo.

You're not reading. I am FAR from "happy" with the government driving manufacturers out of the country with the punitive taxation and regulation, and the union parasite strangling the host until it finally just fucking leaves. THAT is and has been the "status quo."

It took a lot for companies to decide to make this move. It wasn't a overnight thing. But, hell look at Apple for example - they read the tea leaves all the way back, and enjoy almost total freedom from our hostile manufacturing policies - everything they make is overseas and has been for decades! That's greed? Or just savvy business practice?

Had you bought Apple stock back in 1985 you'd be a millionaire several times over by now.

The problem is the fucking government, not "greed."

 

[NoMoRedJ]

You're not reading. I am FAR from "happy" with the government driving manufacturers out of the country with the punitive taxation and regulation, and the union parasite strangling the host until it finally just fucking leaves. THAT is and has been the "status quo."

It took a lot for companies to decide to make this move. It wasn't a overnight thing. But, hell look at Apple for example - they read the tea leaves all the way back, and enjoy almost total freedom from our hostile manufacturing policies - everything they make is overseas and has been for decades! That's greed? Or just savvy business practice?

Had you bought Apple stock back in 1985 you'd be a millionaire several times over by now.

The problem is the fucking government, not "greed."

Agree the govt is a huge problem, but not the only problem.

Greed is a part of it as well. Wall St and hedge funds and the fixation on the next quarter always having to be more profitable than the the last quarter rather than thinking long term. Its all short sighted. Sure its a different world today but what could possibly be wrong with a long term business model that makes a decent profit year after year after year and is a household name? Why do companies always have to try and squeeze every possible penny of profit and not settle for a sound business/fiscal model that sustains for long term providing good service and/or product and a fair price for consumers? Why do CEO's need to continually make millions and millions and millions while the workers cant even make a living that keeps up with the continual cost of living increases? Its greed. Nothing else.

So yea, the govt is a huge problem, but not the only problem.

I used to hate unions. Actually still do even tho I was a teamster at one time. But unions came about for one primary reason, greedy owners and corporations not wanting to fairly compensate their employees. I hate democraps and I hate unions, but I also hate greedy corporations.

 

[onlyonenow]

Agree the govt is a huge problem, but not the only problem.

Greed is a part of it as well. Wall St and hedge funds and the fixation on the next quarter always having to be more profitable than the the last quarter rather than thinking long term. Its all short sighted. Sure its a different world today but what could possibly be wrong with a long term business model that makes a decent profit year after year after year and is a household name? Why do companies always have to try and squeeze every possible penny of profit and not settle for a sound business/fiscal model that sustains for long term providing good service and/or product and a fair price for consumers? Why do CEO's need to continually make millions and millions and millions while the workers cant even make a living that keeps up with the continual cost of living increases? Its greed. Nothing else.

So yea, the govt is a huge problem, but not the only problem.

I used to hate unions. Actually still do even tho I was a teamster at one time. But unions came about for one primary reason, greedy owners and corporations not wanting to fairly compensate their employees. I hate democraps and I hate unions, but I also hate greedy corporations.

is there really any difference now between the major unions and corporations? Really any difference at all- Greed and power and nothing else.

 

[NoMoRedJ]

is there really any difference now between the major unions and corporations? Really any difference at all- Greed and power and nothing else.

No not now. But unions did serve a purpose at one time.

 

[dbair1967]

The problem is the fucking government, not "greed."

Congrats, this is the first smart thing you've said in this thread.

Hell it might be your best post ever here.

 

[dbair1967]

No not now. But unions did serve a purpose at one time.

Are you insinuating that corporations don't serve a purpose?

 

[NoMoRedJ]

Are you insinuating that corporations don't serve a purpose?

No, I never said that.

 

[onlyonenow]

No not now. But unions did serve a purpose at one time.

I remember when I was in college in 1978 reading about the UAW wanting to strike Chrysler for more pay and benefits. I remember reading what the average auto worker made and even then thinking this can not continue. You cannot pay unskilled labor all that without it coming back on you in the future. They all thought our edge would last forever; they would not see that the only reason we dominated the world 1945-1970 economically was because we had almost all new plants and were undamaged after the end of WW2. By 1970 the world was starting to catch up to us and we found out by the 80's how bad it was going to be. The products of Unskilled labor will always be built where the price of such labor is cheaper. First it was Japan and Taiwan, then Singapore and then China. Japan also has not figured out really how to progress; they are into their third decade of stagnation.

we never have really gotten down to it and figured it out.

There are those that argue the middle class is a historical aberration that will not survive long. Right now I wonder.