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The laws were made to protect the citizens from liberal judges and to ensure that the serious offenders get the most serious sentences, especially if the defendant has multiple prior felony convictions. But in any event, the minimum mandatory guidelines do not hinder the prosecutors in the least. The system is built in with safety valves that allow the judges to downward depart. In many cases, all it takes is a proffer and if the defendant played a minor role, that also is taken into account. Once the defendant gets a 5k or safety valve, the judge has the ability to downward depart below the minimum mandatory.

Federal prosecutors have a more difficult time now because they won't prosecute many cases in liberal courts. This has the exact opposite effect where violators do not get prosecuted for some very serious offenses.
I've dealt with prosecutors who have been hindered by the guidelines. So yes, that is a real concern. Downward departures only help so much. By setting a mandatory minimum you inherently remove discretion. You have the legislature telling judges and prosecutors what should be the minimum, and it sets a baseline to work from... even if they depart from the minimum or the guidelines, you have a "starting point." Mentally that sets a bar, and when you go under that, people may perceive you as "soft on crime," when the particulars of the case may warrant far less punishment.

There are reasons no one wants to deal with the federal criminal justice system, and probably the biggest ones are sentencing guidelines and mandatory minimums.
 

dbair1967

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Those millions of people are already here... and they're doing jobs that help our economy, paying taxes, and buying shit.

SOME are working. SOME are buying shit. TONS of these people pay NO taxes. MANY (huge numbers) are on government assistance. MANY (huge numbers) are criminals.

It's just not true that American citizens alone bear the costs of illegal immigrants. According to the CBO, government benefits paid for illegal immigrants is roughly 5-10% of the total spending for those benefits.

Who else pays for government assistance for them then? Canada? China? Little green men from Mars?

What's the crime factor? I've looked over some sources, and there doesn't appear to be any consensus on the illegal alien crime rate. I see that they are roughly 6% of the Texas population and 7% of the total homicide convictions. I've seen something from the census bureau that states that 1.6% of foreign-born males are in prison versus 3.3% of native born males. That doesn't seem like there's an inordinate crime factor at play. I'd be interested to see if you have other numbers.

These numbers have been posted in this forum several times. Hell the illegal alien crime rate in Texas alone is astronomical. Many of these people are multiple time offenders too.

Yes, let's just build a new Berlin Wall. It's just crazy talk. It can't be done, the border is 2000 miles long. They've put up verious types of fencing along about a third of the border now, and the cost for that was $2.5 billion. The cost for a wall could be 10 times that, and that's not even counting upkeep. And there's no telling if it would even work. There are other ways to enter into the country than just walking across the border.

The cost of an open border is far greater.
I know it hurts you to accept that Trump is a big spender, but the sooner you do, the easier it will be. I bet you'll continue to bleat the party line though like the good little sheep you are.

How do you know this? He's never been in elected office. He has no record of that. He constantly says he thinks America needs to be run more like a business (he's right)

How many times does someone have to do a 180 on these basic issues before you think maybe they just aren't being honest? Health care, abortion, in 2004 he said he identified as Democrat, he's sung the praises of Hillary, he's considering nominating a registered democrat for VP... like how much do you have to hear from him to think maybe he's not trustworthy?

He vetted that military guy but he probably has very little chance of being the VP.

He's explained his past support for Hillary and other democrats. I don't like that he ever did, but I also somewhat accept his explanation that he needed to support NY democrats (and some others) because he needed their support for various business interests. He has done business all of the USA and the world and that means working with all kinds of people to get things done.

I wasn't a Trump guy in the beginning, but he has my support today for obvious reasons. Hillary would continue the utter disaster path this country is on and if she gets to nominate 2 or 3 liberal SCJ's then this country is OVER, DONE, TOAST. He will not nominate those types of people. He also isn't willing to do business as usual like democrats and establishment republicans have done for two decades or more now. They (both sides) hate him for that, and that makes me like him more. THEY (the people that live up there for life and make a career of this) ARE THE PROBLEM. THEY NEED TO BE FIXED.
 

Doomsday

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So if you have 100 kilograms of cocaine, meth or heroin in your home or your possession, you don't think that warrants a stiffer sentence (ie: minimum mandatory)?
The "intent to distribute" part is at issue. Currently they don't have to prove that intent, and the mandatory minimum applies.
 
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SOME are working.
I didn't say all of them were working, did I?

SOME are buying shit.
Are you positing that some illegal immigrants don't purchase things in the course of commerce?

TONS of these people pay NO taxes.
$11.2 billion in taxes paid in 2010 by illegal immigrants.

MANY (huge numbers) are on government assistance.
Prove it. Otherwise, this is meaningless without context. They are 5-10% of the total government assistance doled out. That's context.

MANY (huge numbers) are criminals.
Prove it. Otherwise, this is meaningless without context. American born citizens are more likely to be in prison than illegal immigrants. That's context.

Who else pays for government assistance for them then? Canada? China? Little green men from Mars?
When illegal immigrants pay texas, they pay for the government assistance.

These numbers have been posted in this forum several times. Hell the illegal alien crime rate in Texas alone is astronomical. Many of these people are multiple time offenders too.
I've posted numbers. Post yours.

The cost of an open border is far greater.
Prove it.

How do you know this? He's never been in elected office. He has no record of that. He constantly says he thinks America needs to be run more like a business (he's right)
I know by what he says. He hasn't proposed any meaningful cuts in spending, he wants to spend outrageous sums of money to build a wall and wants to start a trade war. That's a spender. He thinks he can "fix" everything that's wrong with the Country by new laws and regulations. You are right that he has no record... so neither of us KNOW what he will do. I just look at what he says critically, instead of buying all the bullshit he tries to sell.

And if he wants to run America more like a business, he'll probably run it more like one of those businesses he bankrupted.

He vetted that military guy but he probably has very little chance of being the VP.
You hope...

He's explained his past support for Hillary and other democrats. I don't like that he ever did, but I also somewhat accept his explanation that he needed to support NY democrats (and some others) because he needed their support for various business interests. He has done business all of the USA and the world and that means working with all kinds of people to get things done.

I wasn't a Trump guy in the beginning, but he has my support today for obvious reasons. Hillary would continue the utter disaster path this country is on and if she gets to nominate 2 or 3 liberal SCJ's then this country is OVER, DONE, TOAST. He will not nominate those types of people. He also isn't willing to do business as usual like democrats and establishment republicans have done for two decades or more now. They (both sides) hate him for that, and that makes me like him more. THEY (the people that live up there for life and make a career of this) ARE THE PROBLEM. THEY NEED TO BE FIXED.
So you just trust him based on the self-serving things he's said since he started his presidential run? Just forget everything else he's ever said before? Basically, if someone has an R by their name, you'll believe anything they say if it means you can justify supporting them against a D.
 

dbair1967

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Judging from your performance in this thread counselor, I'd say you lose more cases than you win.
 

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Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Texas: 611,234 Crimes, 2,993 Murders | PJ Media


Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Texas: 611,234 Crimes, 2,993 Murders


By J. Christian Adams July 22, 2015


The murder of Kathryn Steinle on the Embarcadero in San Francisco by an illegal alien is the most familiar example of a crime committed by an alien. But an unreleased internal report by the Texas Department of Public Safety reveals that aliens have been involved in thousands of crimes in Texas alone, including nearly 3,000 homicides.

PJ Media obtained a never-before-released copy of a Texas DPS report on human smuggling containing the numbers of crimes committed by aliens in Texas. According to the analysis conducted by the Texas Department of Public Safety, foreign aliens committed 611,234 unique crimes in Texas from 2008 to 2014, including thousands of homicides and sexual assaults.

The report describes an alien crime wave of staggering proportions exacerbated by federal officials unwilling to enforce immigration laws.

The Texas DPS report says well over 100,000 individual criminal aliens have been booked into Texas jails:

From October 2008 to April 2014, Texas identified a total 177,588 unique criminal alien defendants booked into Texas county jails. These individuals have been identified through the Secure Communities initiative, in which Texas has participated since October 2008.

There are almost certainly more criminal aliens who haven't been identified as aliens. The 177,588 criminal aliens identified by Texas through the Secure Communities initiative only can tag criminal aliens who had already been fingerprinted. Arrests of illegal aliens who have not been fingerprinted prior to arrest are not included in these arrests numbers derived from the Secure Communities initiative.

That means that the already stratospheric aggregate crime totals would be even higher if crimes by many illegal aliens who are not in the fingerprint database were included.

Confessed hammer killer Juan Francisco De Luna VasquezConfessed Texas killer Juan Vasquez

The Secure Communities initiative is an information-sharing program between the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice. Presumably, both departments would have data on the number of fingerprint searches conducted that revealed a criminal act involved an alien.

Texas has been ground zero in illegal alien crossings into the United States. The Texas DPS report shows that in the Rio Grande Valley, 154,453 illegal aliens were apprehended in 2013.

Other Texas sectors saw approximately 86,000 illegal aliens apprehended. All other sectors combined on the southern border only saw approximately 170,000 illegal alien apprehensions in the same time period. The Obama administration releases a sizable portion of the illegal aliens captured.

The criminal aliens identified by the Texas Department of Public Safety have been responsible for the most heinous types of crimes -- and in astonishing numbers. From the Texas DPS report:

A review of these 177,588 defendants shows that they are responsible for at least 611,234 individual criminal charges over their criminal careers, including 2,993 homicides and 7,695 sexual assaults.

One such murder was committed by Juan Francisco De Luna Vasquez. Vasquez confessed to killing his wife with a hammer in Laredo.

The increasing flood across the border combined with the existence of sanctuary cities bolstered by Obama administration policies allowing the release of the most violent criminal aliens has fueled these crimes.

(Source: Texas DPS)"Other Than Mexican" apprehensions. Most are released. (Source: Texas DPS report)

The House Judiciary Committee has passed the Davis-Oliver Act, introduced (S.1640) in the Senate by Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) and in the House (H.R.1148) by Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), which would address many of these issues.

Yesterday, Texas Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) grilled Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Sarah Saldaña about the 104,000 criminals that ICE released in 2013, and the 68,000 criminals against whom ICE refused to start deportation proceedings. Saldaña calls it "good news" that only 30,558 criminal aliens were released by ICE in 2014.

Sen. Ted Cruz at Hearing on the Administration’s Immigration Enforcement - YouTube
 

Dodger12

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The "intent to distribute" part is at issue. Currently they don't have to prove that intent, and the mandatory minimum applies.

Sure they have to prove intent if it's charged. You just don't like the fact that 100 kilos or a large amount of drugs can not be considered personal use. That's common sense to most people.
 

Dodger12

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I've dealt with prosecutors who have been hindered by the guidelines. So yes, that is a real concern. Downward departures only help so much. By setting a mandatory minimum you inherently remove discretion. You have the legislature telling judges and prosecutors what should be the minimum, and it sets a baseline to work from... even if they depart from the minimum or the guidelines, you have a "starting point." Mentally that sets a bar, and when you go under that, people may perceive you as "soft on crime," when the particulars of the case may warrant far less punishment.

There are reasons no one wants to deal with the federal criminal justice system, and probably the biggest ones are sentencing guidelines and mandatory minimums.

The whole point of the mandatory minimum was to remove discretion from liberal judges and to ensure that the most serious offenders get stiff sentences. I see nothing wrong with that.

And the prosecutors shouldn't have an issue with the guidelines because Federal prosecutors have no obligation to prosecute cases. They pick and choose which drug cases to prosecute and the (initial) basis for those decisions are the drug thresholds set by each judicial district. They all have them. So if a probable cause arrest is made for a minor amount of drugs that do not warrant Federal prosecution or the hammer of the minimum mandatory guidelines, the prosecution of that case is declined by the US Attorney's Office and the defendant is either released or the case is presented to a state prosecutor who can also decide whether or not to prosecute.

Today's prosecutor's are hindered by lack of mandatory sentencing laws. It's no longer worth it for a defendant to cooperate so he/she will take a trial and have nothing to lose since the guidelines are no longer in play. They lose any flexibility as things are now.
 
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The whole point of the mandatory minimum was to remove discretion from liberal judges and to ensure that the most serious offenders get stiff sentences. I see nothing wrong with that.
That's the thing. The legislature can't possibly proscribe enough laws to determine which offenders are "the most serious." Every case and every offender is different.

Not to mention you end up with ridiculous results such as a person selling weed with a gun in his possession getting 55 years and a federal judge being hamstrung by mandatory sentencing... Less time than a rapist or terrorist would have received. This particular federal judge went to bat for him after the sentence and he's recently been released.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/federal-judge-regrets-55-year-marijuana-sentence/story?id=28869467

And the prosecutors shouldn't have an issue with the guidelines because Federal prosecutors have no obligation to prosecute cases. They pick and choose which drug cases to prosecute and the (initial) basis for those decisions are the drug thresholds set by each judicial district. They all have them. So if a probable cause arrest is made for a minor amount of drugs that do not warrant Federal prosecution or the hammer of the minimum mandatory guidelines, the prosecution of that case is declined by the US Attorney's Office and the defendant is either released or the case is presented to a state prosecutor who can also decide whether or not to prosecute.
That's just not how it works. The prosecutors who are doing the actual courtroom work have supervising attorneys who oversee them. They have numbers of cases prosecuted to keep up with, just like any other lawyer has quotas.

Today's prosecutor's are hindered by lack of mandatory sentencing laws. It's no longer worth it for a defendant to cooperate so he/she will take a trial and have nothing to lose since the guidelines are no longer in play. They lose any flexibility as things are now.
That makes no sense. Mandatory sentencing laws are still used... there is no lack of mandatory sentencing laws. And if there's ever a time for a defendant to have no incentive to cooperate, it would be when there's a mandatory sentence. If the prosecutor has discretion to offer a sentence under the "mandatory minimum" then they would have more freedom to make enticing offers to defendants in exchange for their cooperation.
 
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Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Texas: 611,234 Crimes, 2,993 Murders | PJ Media


Illegal Alien Crime Wave in Texas: 611,234 Crimes, 2,993 Murders


By J. Christian Adams July 22, 2015


The murder of Kathryn Steinle on the Embarcadero in San Francisco by an illegal alien is the most familiar example of a crime committed by an alien. But an unreleased internal report by the Texas Department of Public Safety reveals that aliens have been involved in thousands of crimes in Texas alone, including nearly 3,000 homicides.

PJ Media obtained a never-before-released copy of a Texas DPS report on human smuggling containing the numbers of crimes committed by aliens in Texas. According to the analysis conducted by the Texas Department of Public Safety, foreign aliens committed 611,234 unique crimes in Texas from 2008 to 2014, including thousands of homicides and sexual assaults.

The report describes an alien crime wave of staggering proportions exacerbated by federal officials unwilling to enforce immigration laws.

The Texas DPS report says well over 100,000 individual criminal aliens have been booked into Texas jails:

From October 2008 to April 2014, Texas identified a total 177,588 unique criminal alien defendants booked into Texas county jails. These individuals have been identified through the Secure Communities initiative, in which Texas has participated since October 2008.

There are almost certainly more criminal aliens who haven't been identified as aliens. The 177,588 criminal aliens identified by Texas through the Secure Communities initiative only can tag criminal aliens who had already been fingerprinted. Arrests of illegal aliens who have not been fingerprinted prior to arrest are not included in these arrests numbers derived from the Secure Communities initiative.

That means that the already stratospheric aggregate crime totals would be even higher if crimes by many illegal aliens who are not in the fingerprint database were included.

Confessed hammer killer Juan Francisco De Luna VasquezConfessed Texas killer Juan Vasquez

The Secure Communities initiative is an information-sharing program between the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice. Presumably, both departments would have data on the number of fingerprint searches conducted that revealed a criminal act involved an alien.

Texas has been ground zero in illegal alien crossings into the United States. The Texas DPS report shows that in the Rio Grande Valley, 154,453 illegal aliens were apprehended in 2013.

Other Texas sectors saw approximately 86,000 illegal aliens apprehended. All other sectors combined on the southern border only saw approximately 170,000 illegal alien apprehensions in the same time period. The Obama administration releases a sizable portion of the illegal aliens captured.

The criminal aliens identified by the Texas Department of Public Safety have been responsible for the most heinous types of crimes -- and in astonishing numbers. From the Texas DPS report:

A review of these 177,588 defendants shows that they are responsible for at least 611,234 individual criminal charges over their criminal careers, including 2,993 homicides and 7,695 sexual assaults.

One such murder was committed by Juan Francisco De Luna Vasquez. Vasquez confessed to killing his wife with a hammer in Laredo.

The increasing flood across the border combined with the existence of sanctuary cities bolstered by Obama administration policies allowing the release of the most violent criminal aliens has fueled these crimes.

(Source: Texas DPS)"Other Than Mexican" apprehensions. Most are released. (Source: Texas DPS report)

The House Judiciary Committee has passed the Davis-Oliver Act, introduced (S.1640) in the Senate by Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) and in the House (H.R.1148) by Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), which would address many of these issues.

Yesterday, Texas Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) grilled Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Sarah Saldaña about the 104,000 criminals that ICE released in 2013, and the 68,000 criminals against whom ICE refused to start deportation proceedings. Saldaña calls it "good news" that only 30,558 criminal aliens were released by ICE in 2014.

Sen. Ted Cruz at Hearing on the Administration’s Immigration Enforcement - YouTube
I figured you'd just go find an article and post it... This is just lazy work there David.

You found an article that references 600k crimes over a 7 year period by 177k illegal immigrants. That's less than 100k crimes per year. According to TxDPS, there were about 7 million crimes over that same 7 year period in Texas. 600k crimes is roughly 8% of the total crimes committed.

Then if you want to talk about violent crimes, TxDPS reported over 700k violent crimes over that same time frame. The article you posted cited a little more than 10k violent crimes? That's 1.5% of the violent crimes.

http://dps.texas.gov/crimereports/14/citCh2Add.pdf

So like I said, this is worthless without context. You're going to have to do more if you want to prove your point.
 

Dodger12

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That's the thing. The legislature can't possibly proscribe enough laws to determine which offenders are "the most serious." Every case and every offender is different.

The defendant(s), their criminal history, possession of a firearm and the quantity of drugs determine which one is the more serious offender, not the law. Of course every offender is different and the minimum mandatory should only be applied to the most serious offenses with the largest amount of drugs or if a weapon is involved.

With regards to the link you provided, I agree no one with that amount of weed should get 55 years. I have no issue with a 5 year minimum because of the gun possession though. I'd really be interested in the facts of that case. I looked it up but other than general facts, I found nothing. I will say in all honesty that I've seen some pretty questionable and liberal use of the minimum mandatory laws which really went away from their intended purpose and I always felt it was only a matter of time those laws would be questioned and abolished.

That's just not how it works. The prosecutors who are doing the actual courtroom work have supervising attorneys who oversee them. They have numbers of cases prosecuted to keep up with, just like any other lawyer has quotas.

That's not how it works at all Pep. I'm not going to argue with you on this subject but if you have a friend, college buddy, etc. that you graduated law school with who may work for a US Attorney's Office, ask them if they have documented thresholds. I can't say that all judicial districts do but I've seen some that have them and they're beyond stupid because it takes into account primarily the amount of drugs seized and not the offender which should dictate that level of prosecution.

lastly, I'd argue that Fed prosecutors decline more drug cases than they prosecute, mainly based on these thresholds. The system is flawed.

That makes no sense. Mandatory sentencing laws are still used... there is no lack of mandatory sentencing laws. And if there's ever a time for a defendant to have no incentive to cooperate, it would be when there's a mandatory sentence. If the prosecutor has discretion to offer a sentence under the "mandatory minimum" then they would have more freedom to make enticing offers to defendants in exchange for their cooperation.

When a defendant is facing a minimum mandatory sentence with no possibility of parole unless he/she cooperates and gets a 5K letter, that's a heck of a motivator to cooperate. There was a saying I learned a long time ago that's pretty true: there are two types of people in Federal prison; those that cooperated and those that wish they cooperated.
 

dbair1967

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I figured you'd just go find an article and post it... This is just lazy work there David.

You found an article that references 600k crimes over a 7 year period by 177k illegal immigrants. That's less than 100k crimes per year. According to TxDPS, there were about 7 million crimes over that same 7 year period in Texas. 600k crimes is roughly 8% of the total crimes committed.

Then if you want to talk about violent crimes, TxDPS reported over 700k violent crimes over that same time frame. The article you posted cited a little more than 10k violent crimes? That's 1.5% of the violent crimes.

http://dps.texas.gov/crimereports/14/citCh2Add.pdf

So like I said, this is worthless without context. You're going to have to do more if you want to prove your point.

LOL. OK, all those crimes committed by people who shouldn't have been there isn't context.

The girl in SF that got murdered by that 100 time loser illegal alien isn't context.

And leftist gun control advocates will proclaim that even if one murder was eliminated because of stricter gun laws, that's worth considering. But enforcing laws already on the books that would have prevented 1000's of crimes isn't worth pursuing. (ie, deporting people or mandatory sentences for illegal aliens who commit crimes)
 
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The defendant(s), their criminal history, possession of a firearm and the quantity of drugs determine which one is the more serious offender, not the law. Of course every offender is different and the minimum mandatory should only be applied to the most serious offenses with the largest amount of drugs or if a weapon is involved.
The law does try to proscribe which are the more serious offenders. The sentencing guidelines put "points" on the sentence for the defendant's criminal history, the firearm possession, the quantity of drugs, etc.... those are laws. The mandatory minimums are not just applied to the "most serious offenses." They are applied to offenses as the law proscribes.

With regards to the link you provided, I agree no one with that amount of weed should get 55 years. I have no issue with a 5 year minimum because of the gun possession though. I'd really be interested in the facts of that case. I looked it up but other than general facts, I found nothing. I will say in all honesty that I've seen some pretty questionable and liberal use of the minimum mandatory laws which really went away from their intended purpose and I always felt it was only a matter of time those laws would be questioned and abolished.
I assume you're saying that you have no issue with a 5 year mandatory minimum sentence for possession of a gun in a sale of narcotics.... I don't understand that at all. The guy didn't use the gun in the transaction. In fact, I don't think it was even brought up by the agent who conducted controlled sales... I think it was mentioned by the defendant during interrogation IIRC.

It seems ridiculous to just impose 5 years on someone for possession of a gun during an offense when the gun had no part in the offense. And no discretion to take that out? Just dumb.

That's not how it works at all Pep. I'm not going to argue with you on this subject but if you have a friend, college buddy, etc. that you graduated law school with who may work for a US Attorney's Office, ask them if they have documented thresholds. I can't say that all judicial districts do but I've seen some that have them and they're beyond stupid because it takes into account primarily the amount of drugs seized and not the offender which should dictate that level of prosecution.
I don't understand what you're saying here... I stated that the prosecutors have numbers they have to keep up with, quotas if you will... You ask me to find a friend who works with a USAO, and see if they have thresholds, like you don't think that they do. Then you say you "can't say all districts do." Like you think they do have numbers to keep up with? Then you say the thresholds are beyond stupid? I don't know what you're arguing here.

lastly, I'd argue that Fed prosecutors decline more drug cases than they prosecute, mainly based on these thresholds. The system is flawed.
I agree the system is flawed. But there's no shortage of people advocating for the reform of the sentencing laws... it's a pretty common theme among those with experience with the system. You can't be all that surprised I don't like the way it is currently.

When a defendant is facing a minimum mandatory sentence with no possibility of parole unless he/she cooperates and gets a 5K letter, that's a heck of a motivator to cooperate. There was a saying I learned a long time ago that's pretty true: there are two types of people in Federal prison; those that cooperated and those that wish they cooperated.
Imagine how much more cooperation they could get if they could deviate even more from the guidelines/mandatory minimums. You're talking about a limited deviation in your scenario. The greater the deviation that is allowed, the more cooperation the government will get.
 
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LOL. OK, all those crimes committed by people who shouldn't have been there isn't context.

The girl in SF that got murdered by that 100 time loser illegal alien isn't context.
Do you know what context means? It doesn't mean posting a few numbers of crimes committed by illegal immigrants with no comparison to the number of crimes committed by people who are here legally. And it doesn't mean anecdotal evidence. It means you need to compare what the crime rates are among illegal immigrants versus legal immigrants... Just saying that there's a certain number of crimes committed by a subset of people doesn't prove your statement that illegal immigrants are responsible for increased crime.

And another bit of "context" for you. The overall crime rate has been decreasing steadily over the past 5-10 years. I doubt you would claim that illegal immigration has decreased over that same span of time. If your position were correct, I would presume with the influx of illegal immigrants over the past 10 years, the crime rate would be going up. It's not.

And leftist gun control advocates will proclaim that even if one murder was eliminated because of stricter gun laws, that's worth considering. But enforcing laws already on the books that would have prevented 1000's of crimes isn't worth pursuing. (ie, deporting people or mandatory sentences for illegal aliens who commit crimes)
Who said enforcing laws on the books isn't worth pursuing?
 

dbair1967

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For the Pepster. Feel free to spin away counselor.

Illegal Alien Crime and Violence by the Numbers: We’re All Victims

by Peter B. Gemma, National Executive Committee member

illegal-aliens At first glance, the statistics are jolting. According to the United Nations, 97 percent of the illegal immigrants who enter the U.S. clandestinely do so across the almost 2,000-mile border between the U.S. and Mexico, but only 20 percent of those who cross the border illegally are caught.[1]

The New York Times reports that about 4.5 million illegal aliens in the U.S. drive on a regular basis, many without licenses or insurance, or even the ability to read road signs written in English.[2] (Meanwhile, the California legislature has just voted to give driver’s licenses to illegal aliens.) Yahoo.com writer J.C. Grant notes, “There is a statistically significant correlation between state per capita illegal immigration rates and car thefts. This correlation is particularly strong: the odds are less than two in one million that the correlation is a chance occurrence.”[3]

If just car thievery were the main concern, it would be an important problem to address. However, the Office of Immigration Statistics reported that of the 188,382 deportations of illegal aliens in 2011, 23 percent had committed criminal traffic offenses (primarily driving under the influence). Congressman Steve King (R-IA) estimates that illegal alien drunk drivers kill 13 Americans every day — that’s a death toll of 4,745 per year.[4]

The 23 percent criminal traffic offenders figure is only part of the overall picture. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, another 23 percent, more than 43,000 illegal aliens, were convicted of drug offenses. The violent crime category of assault, robbery, sexual assault, and family offenses comes to 12 percent. The non-violent crime grouping of larceny, fraud, and burglary totaled seven percent, and on the list goes — equaling 100 percent of illegal aliens who have been through the criminal justice system and inflicted thousands to millions in cost per alien on the system, for issues having nothing to do with their illegal entry into the country.[5] 577_Allen1

In an interview with this author, Pinal County, Arizona Sheriff Paul Babeu stated, “Pinal County has followed the trend of the majority of counties across the United States, so we have seen most of our major crime statistics drop during the past few years. The one area we have not seen drop — which has seen dramatic increases in fact — is crimes tied to illegal immigration. Our high-speed vehicle pursuits have rapidly increased each year from 142 in 2007 to 340 such incidents in 2010. Marijuana seizures have spiked from a low in 2008 of about 19,600 pounds to over 45,500 pounds in 2010. My deputies are telling me more and more that they are apprehending guns and high tech communication equipment from cartel operatives.”

Sheriff Babeu went on to make this point:

Pinal County is roughly 70 miles north of the border. In 2010, the U.S. Border Patrol reported 212,202 illegal aliens were caught in the Tucson sector alone. The Border Patrol admits for everyone captured, another 2.7 make it into the United States undetected. Of the individuals who are apprehended, as many as 30% of them already have a criminal record in the United States.

The liberal Huffington Post writer Chris Kirkham recently noted that, “this year, more than 60 percent of all federal criminal convictions have been for immigration-related crimes, federal data show.” He went on to observe in his August 23 piece, “In Texas’ southern federal court district this year, where nearly 90 percent of all new prosecutions were for illegal entry and reentry into the United States, federal authorities are looking for more room to hold detainees, many of whom are charged with immigration crimes.”[6]

The figures add up.

According to TracImmigration.com, the independent and nonpartisan resource site for information about federal immigration enforcement, illegal reentry under Title 8, Section 1326 of the United States Code was the most commonly recorded lead charge brought by federal prosecutors during the first half of FY 2011. It alone accounted for 47 percent of all criminal immigration prosecutions filed. The average prison sentence was 14 months for those convicted where illegal reentry was recorded as the lead charge[7] (at an estimated cost of $134 per day per inmate[8]).

And the recidivism rate is on the rise. An April 19, 2013 story from the Miami Herald reveals that, “New figures show that the number of federal prosecution cases against previously deported immigrants is increasing nationwide.”[9]

An investigative news piece in the Columbus Dispatch included this finding:

Nationwide, the number of people prosecuted for coming back illegally after being deported has increased by 175 percent since 2005, according to a report by Syracuse University’s Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, or TRAC, which gathers and analyzes data from public agencies.

The Columbus Dispatch story goes on to report that locally, “illegal re-entry cases represent about a third of the caseload for the federal public-defender’s office, according to Gordon G. Hobson, a senior litigator for the federal public-defender’s office. Ten years ago, it was about five percent,’ he said. ‘Not everyone who comes back illegally and is caught a second time is prosecuted.’”[10]

Recently there has been a surge of crossings as talks about new restrictions in trade for amnesty are taking place. “We’ve seen the number of illegal aliens double, maybe even triple since amnesty talk started happening,” one border agent who asked to remain unnamed due to fears of retaliation within Customs and Border Protection, something he said is common. “A lot of these people, although not the majority, are criminals or aggravated felons. This is a direct danger to our communities,” he warned.[11]

A new study published by the Migration Policy Institute and the Wilson Center sheds light on the passage of Central Americans through Mexico, in a phenomenon called “transmigration”. Among the findings cited is the fact that arrests by the U.S. Border Patrol of individuals from countries other than Mexico have increased from 59,000 in FY 2010 to 99,000 in FY 2012.[12]

Fox News, obtained reports by the House Judiciary Committee and nonpartisan Congressional Research Service. They are the result of the committee’s subpoena request for Department of Homeland Security records from October 2008 to July 2011. The information was analyzed by the CRS and show 276,412 reported charges against illegal and criminal immigrants over that three-year period as identified by Secure Communities, a federal program that essentially attempts to make best use of resources by identifying and prioritizing which illegal immigrants pose the biggest threat to public safety and should be arrested or deported. Fox News reports, “Of the 160,000 people in the database, more than 26,000 were re-arrested — accounting for nearly 58,000 crimes and violations. They allegedly committed nearly 8,500 drunken-driving offenses and more than 6,000 drug-related violations. The records also show major criminal offenses, which included murder, battery, rape, kidnapping and nearly 3,000 thefts. Roughly two percent of the crimes included child molestation, lynching, and torture, according to the 13-page Congressional Research Service report.”[13]

Sheriff Paul Babeu observed, “The Mexican drug cartels have almost toppled the Mexican Government and they are crossing into Arizona at will. In Mexico, over 42,000 lives have been lost to their wars and that number is rising by the hour. Their illegal drug trade is a forty billion dollar a year industry. The stakes are so high and the competition so fierce, that Mexican warlords are sparing no expense. Pinal County has seen mass murders, execution-style slayings, sexual assaults, kidnappings, shootings, armed robberies, burglaries, and more — all tied to illegal immigration.”

Counting off face-to-face.

The overall perspective of the criminal behavior of illegal aliens is grim. In a 2007 Government Accountability Office study of 55,322 illegal aliens, analysts discovered that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about eight arrests per illegal alien: 70 percent had between two and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Drug or immigration offenses accounted for 45 percent of all offenses, and approximately 12 percent (over 6,600 illegal aliens) were arrested for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes.[14]

An FBI crime study also shows heavy illegal alien involvement in criminal activity revealed these statistics:
•75 percent of those on the most wanted criminals list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
•One quarter of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals, as are more than 40 percent of all inmates in Arizona and 48 percent in New Mexico jails.
•Over 53 percent of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
•63 percent of cited drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that number, 97 percent are illegal aliens. 66 percent of cited drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66 percent, 98 percent are illegal aliens
.[15]

The numbers don’t show attitude or intent. “United States is stupid … I come back every time,” asserted Mexican national Rolando Mota-Campos to a Virginia-based immigration agent after his 11th arrest — for crimes ranging from abduction, assault, four DUIs, vehicular assault, attempted robbery, and domestic violence. Mota-Campos has been deported three times and has vowed to return again.[16]

And the numbers don’t show the depth of depravity of some illegal alien criminals. In Arizona, Mexican national Santana Batiz Aceves was charged with 47 counts of rape based on DNA evidence. He has already been deported twice for drug charges in California. Aceves also faces charges of kidnapping, aggravated assault, sexual abuse of a minor, giving police false information, providing false documents, and trespassing.[17]

The statistics are traumatic, but the anecdotal stories are horrifying.

•A year after Baltimore’s mayor signed an order officially converting the city into a sanctuary for illegal immigrants, federal authorities arrested an undocumented Ecuadorian national wanted for the brutal rape of a nine-year-old girl.[18]

•Carlos Martinelly-Montano, a Bolivian national who killed a Virginia nun in a drunk-driving accident, was on a new federal government supervised release program, allowing the illegal alien — who committed a series of crimes — to remain on the streets despite being subject to deportation. Rather than detaining Montano, authorities determined that he was a candidate for the Alternatives to Detention (ATD) program, which supposedly monitored his whereabouts.[19]

•Guatemalan illegal alien Juan Tzun killed California sheriff’s dispatcher Dominick Durden. In 2008, Tzun was charged with two felonies. He pled guilty to one felony and the other was dropped. Tzun was given 3 years probation but should have been deported. A year later he was caught driving drunk. Three more years probation, but again, no deportation. Another year later, Tzun was caught driving drunk a second time and was released — two months later he drove into Durden and instantly killed him. Finally, ICE detained Tzun until an immigration judge freed him on bond. Tzun spent all of 35 days in jail, and is now in detention pending deportation.[20]

Politicians, lobbyists, and statistics.

During election season last year, a new initiative by the Obama Administration was described by Neil Munro, White House Correspondent for the dailycaller.com, in his story headlined, “Obama immigration policy opens work permit door to ID thieves, jailed illegals, uninsured drivers:”

The [new] White House immigration policy would not prevent illegal aliens who have committed identity theft or have been driving cars without licenses from obtaining work permits, an administration official told reporters during a press conference on Friday. It will also be extended to some illegals already in jail and to some who have already been approved for deportation by judges, he said … The presidential policy — which was pitched by officials as a large-scale exercise of ‘prosecutorial discretion’ — has been credited by Democrats with boosting Obama’s support among Hispanic voters into the 70 percent level.[21]

The continuing — actually increasing[22] — crime wave by illegal aliens can be linked to a series of policy actions taken by the Obama Administration as part of their open borders advocacy. The Heritage Foundation reports, “Congress has repeatedly considered, and rejected, a bill known as the Dream Act that would effectively grant amnesty to many illegal aliens. Yet in June 2012, six months before the election, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano issued a directive to immigration officials instructing them to defer deportation proceedings against an estimated 1.7 million illegal aliens. Oddly, this happened about a year after President Obama admitted that ‘the President doesn’t have the authority to simply ignore Congress and say we’re not going to enforce the laws you’ve passed.’”[23]

Also last year, the Obama Justice Department announced it would stop deporting illegal immigrants who come to the country at a young age and meet certain requirements. The new rules apply to those who came to the United States before they were 16 and who are younger than 30, if they have lived here for five years, have no criminal history, graduated from a U.S. high school or served in the military. The change in policy could allow as many as 800,000 immigrants who came to the United States illegally not only to remain in the country without fear of being deported.

That new directive earned this remark from House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA):

President Obama has once again abused his authority and unilaterally refused to enforce our current immigration laws by directing U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to stop removing broad categories of unlawful immigrants. The primary reason why our immigration system is broken today is because our immigration laws have largely been ignored by past and present administrations. It’s imperative that we prevent this from happening again by taking away the enforcement ‘on/off’ switch from the President.[24] 

According to a statement by National Border Patrol Council, Local 2544, “This… [is] more of the ‘wait until they kill, rape, beat or molest someone here in America, then we’ll deport them’ logic. Any victims want to step up to the plate so they can make sure an illegal alien becomes a ‘felon’, making him deportable under the Obama and Napolitano rules? Brilliant strategy. They say they’ll deport ‘gang members’ as well. The illegal alien cheerleaders will love this new strategy. Those of us who actually have to put our lives on the line and enforce the laws? Not so much.”[25]

In August of 2013, the Obama Administration issued the latest in a line of policy directives granting amnesty by default. This latest directive instructs Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials not to enforce immigration laws in cases where an illegal alien is the primary provider for any minor child — regardless of the child’s immigration status — or the parent or guardian of a child who is a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident.

Also in August, a U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission news release (“EEOC’S Miami District Office and Mexican Consulate Offices Sign Historic Outreach Agreement”), hailed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) it signed with the Consulate General of Mexico in Miami and Consulate of Mexico. The pact “establishes an ongoing collaboration between these entities to provide Mexican nationals with information, guidance, and access to resources on the prevention of discrimination in the workplace regardless of immigration status … The EEOC’s Miami District Office is currently involved in plans for the agency’s participation in various ‘Labor Rights Week’ events scheduled throughout the state at the end of August by the Miami Consulate General and Orlando Consulate offices. ‘Labor Rights Week’ is an initiative to educate Mexican nationals and other Latinos about their civil rights, workplace safety, minimum wage laws, and human trafficking.”

Gangs add to the toll.

The invasion of illegal aliens has established a bloody battlefront in the form of street gangs.

What fuels the growth of gangs is money — easily obtainable via drug smuggling. A 2011 report from the National Gang Intelligence Center makes the connections between the Mexican drug cartels and various U.S.-based gangs, especially illegal alien rings such as Los Aztecas and MS-13.

US-based gangs have established strong working relationships with Central American and MDTOs (Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations) to perpetrate illicit cross-border activity, as well as with some organized crime groups in some regions of the United States. US-based gangs and MDTOs are establishing wide-reaching drug networks; assisting in the smuggling of drugs, weapons and illegal immigrants along the Southwest Border; and serving as enforcers of MDTOs interests on the US side of the border.[26]

The report notes that, “Federal, state, and local law enforcement officials are observing a growing nexus between the Mexican drug cartels, illegal alien smuggling rings, and US-based gangs. It is estimated that criminals earn billions of dollars each year by smuggling aliens through Mexico into the United States.”[27]

One of the better-known illegal alien gangs is the violent MS-13, the abbreviation for Mara Salvatrucha (loosely translated as “street smart clique”) — dubbed the “The World’s Most Dangerous Gang” by usually restrained National Geographic. Michael Sullivan, a former director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, says the Salvadoran gang’s use of brute force to keep control of its operations has kept MS-13 from being infiltrated. “MS-13’s foothold in the U.S. is expanding,” Sullivan says, with known affiliates in 42 states, up from 33 in 2005. The FBI believes that the gang’s L.A. members have a higher status among the group. The gang typically targets high school and even middle school students for recruitment. Aaron Escorza, chief of the FBI’s MS-13 National Gang Task Force says a “revolving door” on the border has kept the gang’s numbers steady even as many illegal immigrant members are deported.[28] Reporter Dave Gibson notes that according to FBI records, there are at least 70,000 MS-13 gang members operating between Central America and the United States.[29]

Another rapidly expanding gang, Florencia 13, works closely with the Mexican Mafia and is based out of South Los Angeles. Florencia 13 is part of a terrifying gang war scene that has turned L.A. into one of the most dangerous counties in the country. It also has members and influence in states like Virginia and Iowa. The gang has racked up charges ranging from piracy to conspiracy to sell drugs and murder over the last few years. They also have been cited for infiltrating the U.S. military.

Originally based out of El Paso, Los Aztecas have become a powerful paramilitary force on both sides of the Mexico border. Now many of the gang’s members are recruited from Texas prisons, and some of its work takes place inside prison walls, such as heroin production. Los Aztecas work with the Juarez and Los Zetas cartels running drugs, smuggling illegal aliens and murdering consulate officials. In March 2011, 35 members of the gang were charged with a variety of crimes, including 10 gangsters involved in the murder of the U.S. Consulate employee and several family members.

The ultra-violent Trinitarios has its roots in New York’s prison system in the 1980s, but quickly spread to the streets as inmates were released. Its influence is now felt in all five boroughs of New York and in at least 10 states covering all corners of the country. The predominantly Dominican gang, with deadly rivalries with other Hispanic gangs, is notorious for recruiting in high schools throughout New York and New Jersey, and is said to be behind a number of teen shootings and machete deaths.

A quick scan of the Internet finds sickening evidence of the carnage caused by illegal alien gangs on the prowl.

•Police in the Sanctuary City of Austin, TX arrested two Mexican nationals who reportedly participated in the gang rape of a 13-year-old girl on June 29. As many as 13 men took turns sexually assaulting the girl. Many cheered and filmed the crime on their cell phones. Juan Lozano Ortega, 25, and Edgar Gerardo Guzman Perez, 26, were charged with aggravated sexual assault of a child. Both men, Mexican nationals, are currently being held in the Travis County Jail on immigration detainers.[30]

•Pinal County Arizona Sheriff Babeu recounts this story: “On December 14th 2010, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was patrolling with three other members of his tactical team in Peck Canyon that is a notorious drug-smuggling corridor. At the same time five illegal aliens, all of whom were armed with weapons, were also patrolling in the same canyon. According to one of them who was later arrested, at least two of the illegal aliens carried their assault rifles “at the ready position.” After the Border Patrol agents identified themselves in Spanish as police officers, one of the illegal aliens opened fire striking Brian Terry in the back. The bullet pierced his aorta and he began to bleed profusely. He died at the scene. At the time of the shooting, Brian Terry was armed with a ‘less lethal’ beanbag shotgun [the weapon is designed to deliver a blow that will briefly render a violent suspect immobile]. Two of AK-47s recovered at the scene came from the failed ‘Fast and Furious’[31] operation.”

What will be the tally?

The 2012 illegal alien population in the United States, based on Pew Research Center estimates, is an estimated 11.7 million U.S., up from a recent low of 11.3 million in 2009. Since 1990, the illegal alien population has more than tripled, and shows no sign of slowing.

Financial analyst and economics journalist, Edwin Rubenstein, Ph.D., noted in this journal that there “are the divergent trends [in criminal incarcerations] of the two most recent years for which we have data. From 2008 to 2009 the number of white male inmates declined by 15,000 (-2.6 percent); black male inmates declined by 5,000 (-0.6 percent); while the count of incarcerated Hispanic males rose by 15,000 (+3.5 percent.)” He also observed that, “Hispanic males were 37 percent more likely to be incarcerated than non-Hispanic males. More importantly, the gap is growing. From 2000 to 2009 non-Hispanic incarceration rates declined while Hispanic incarceration rates rose.”[32] The only change seems to be a growing number of illegal alien criminals.

The Washington Times reports that, “14.7 percent of removal cases filed by the administration this year have alleged criminal violations. That figure has dropped steadily from 16.6 percent in 2010.”[33] More illegal alien criminals, but fewer deportations.

Is immigration reform doomed? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel illegal aliens have burrowed in America? According to commentator Pat Buchanan, “The crisis of the West is a collapsing culture and vanishing peoples … mounts the greatest invasion in history of the world. If we do not shake off our paralysis, the West comes to an end.”[34]

The answer may lie somewhere in these numbers: public approval of the way Congress is running the country hovers under 20 percent,[35] and a remarkable 55 percent of registered voters disapprove of Obama’s handling of immigration policy.[36] Add to that equation that approximately 53 percent of U.S. citizens believe that most or all illegal aliens should be deported. These numbers are encouraging.

However, approximately 42 percent of eligible voters did not go to the polls last year.[37]

In this writer’s opinion, Buchanan’s wise advice to shake off our paralysis is crucial — vote and vote your convictions.

Illegal Alien Crime and Violence by the Numbers: We’re All Victims | The Constitution Party
 
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Did you even read all that shit? Or did you just google "illegal immigrant crime stats" and post the first thing you found?

It doesn't provide any of the context you have been missing this whole thread. In fact, most of it is about the numbers of illegal immigration itself. Sorry. Try again.
 
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