Baker forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training

[Hoofbite]

Yes genius, it probably doesn't say that. But it probably does say something about marriage is between a man and a woman doesn't it? That's what this guy adheres to.

I don't think he is judging anyone. He said he didn't want to bake cakes for gay weddings because of his religious beliefs, that's all.

Nobody is asking him to do something that would require him to not adhere to his religion.

If being gay isn't part of your religion then don't be gay.

Given that all religions are mutually exclusive, the commandment about not having any other Gods would allow him to turn down any person who doesn't share his God.

How would you feel about him turning down someone simply because they're Buddhist?

 

[Jon88]

Does the guy adhere to all the crazy shit in the bible or just the stuff he likes?

Because there's a lot of crazy retarded shit in the bible.

What does every Christian do? They skip over the crazy shit and just pick and choose.

 

[CobraKai]

Eh. Political correctness out of control. That's all this is about.

Again I would say do you personally do business with people you don't like? I just don't understand why a gay couple would want to do business with someone who they knew didn't like what they were doing (for whatever reason). It isn't like this guy was the only cake baker around either. Just go somewhere else.

No, that is fucking not what it's about. How do you not see that this is no different than any separate but equal argument? You cannot open a business and discriminate like this, and it has nothing to do with political correctness you nitwit.

 

[dbair1967]

David what if you wanted to take Mrs dbair out to your favorite restaurant but you were refused service because new ownership said it was against their religion to serve people with shitty senses of humor. How would that make you feel? See how this is a slippery slope?

Let's just stop being judgemental hate mongers hiding behind a dumbass religion and bake the fucking cakes.

I'd probably just tell them I bet their food sucked anyway and go somewhere else.

Which is what this gay couple should have done.

 

[Sheik]

Just make two bumping wieners.

 

[dbair1967]

How would you feel about him turning down someone simply because they're Buddhist?

Honestly exactly the same as I feel now.

 

[dbair1967]

No, that is fucking not what it's about. How do you not see that this is no different than any separate but equal argument? You cannot open a business and discriminate like this, and it has nothing to do with political correctness you nitwit.

If he had blatantly said "I don't like fags & dikes and wont serve you" that would be one thing and I would agree with your point. But his point all along was because of his religion he didn't feel it was right to make a gay wedding cake.

 

[VTA]

The son of god in that goofy book was all about preaching love, tolerance, turning the other cheek, and not judging.

So stop hiding behind the book/religion when judging and discriminating others.

It's that simple, ya hateful fucks.

What does every Christian do? They skip over the crazy shit and just pick and choose.

Don't make me lay a theological smack down on you nitwits and expose your folly.

 

[Irving Cowboy]

I don't see the problem.

That's because you are a fucking moron, SP.

 

[dbair1967]

That's because you are a fucking moron, SP.

 

[junk]

I just find this particular situation not so clearly defined. I know it's a shit-show, but because of anti-discrimination laws, I can see the problem. Unfortunately that it's even an issue is an even larger problem that most don't understand.

Didn't we have a big debate about something similar before?

Someone on here was all up in arms about churches renting out their facilities to gay couples. Not the church itself, for ceremonies, just the actual church buildings. I thought the whole thread was based upon anti-discrimination. Maybe it was someone else, I don't really remember, but I thought the discussion included something about bakeries refusing to bake cakes for gay couples.

Not sure, but anyway, this is just like a business refusing service because someone is black, female or <gasp> Christian. I'm sure there'd be a shit fit if the shoe was on the other foot and someone was refused service because they were Christian.

 

[Midswat]

Don't make me lay a theological smack down on you nitwits and expose your folly.

I don't doubt for a second you know more about the bible than I do. So I'd love it if you could exposes my folly. Please explain how der dumb my post was.

 

[Hoofbite]

Honestly exactly the same as I feel now.

So what you're saying is that you're pro-discrimination?

 

[VTA]

Didn't we have a big debate about something similar before?

Someone on here was all up in arms about churches renting out their facilities to gay couples. Not the church itself, for ceremonies, just the actual church buildings. I thought the whole thread was based upon anti-discrimination. Maybe it was someone else, I don't really remember, but I thought the discussion included something about bakeries refusing to bake cakes for gay couples.

Not sure, but anyway, this is just like a business refusing service because someone is black, female or <gasp> Christian. I'm sure there'd be a shit fit if the shoe was on the other foot and someone was refused service because they were Christian.

I'm not sure if this bakery instance was included in that debate. Either way, providing a product isn't the same as allowing your venue to be used for something so antithetical to the very purpose of the church and it's adjoining buildings; a place to worship and for Christians to gather under God, whether in the temple or an adjoining building. It's not discrimination it's religious freedom. You can't, for example, force a church to allow satan worshippers to hold a mass in the church by claiming discrimination.

 

[VTA]

I don't doubt for a second you know more about the bible than I do. So I'd love it if you could exposes my folly. Please explain how der dumb my post was.

Forgiveness and judgment are from God/Jesus. Jesus commanded us to love each other. Supporting a person in his sin, a path that most certainly drives him far away from God isn't an act of love, beyond the love of self and concern for how the self is perceived.

Jesus preached the kingdom and the loss of the kingdom due to the love of sin. He isn't the hippie many like to make Him out to be, claiming he hung with prostitutes and the like; many were drawn to him and either they were transformed in his presence or they left, like the multitude documented in John 6:66, or the rich guy who wouldn't give up his fortune to follow Christ. He told the adulteress to go her way and sin no more. (John 7) He healed a cripple and told him directly, sin no more, lest something worse come upon you. (John 5:14) That certainly doesn't sound like the non-judgmental beatnik many like to falsely characterize God in the flesh as.

Jesus had a lot of hard sayings for people who would remain obstinate:

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

He's talking absolute judgment and consequence for unrepented sin. Our obligation is to steer each other away from that end, no matter how unpopular the message may be. That isn't judgmental, that's compassion and I hope yo guys reading these things think twice about it.

 

[dbair1967]

Not sure, but anyway, this is just like a business refusing service because someone is black, female or <gasp> Christian. I'm sure there'd be a shit fit if the shoe was on the other foot and someone was refused service because they were Christian.

Are there Religions that say being black or female is wrong?

 

[dbair1967]

So what you're saying is that you're pro-discrimination?

No, I'm anti-gubment sticking their noses into every aspect of everyone's life and business

 

[CobraKai]

Yup, Jesus did have some warning messages to his followers.

But consider - King David committed atrocious sins. He killed many people. He fucked one of his soldiers (Uriah) wives (Bath-sheba), and got her pregnant. When the soldier returned, David ordered him to fuck his wife to cover up the pregnancy - when he refused, David sent him to the frontlines to be killed. King Manasseh was LITERALLY worse than Hitler.

Both these men, when times got tough, were "scared straight", repented and regained God's favor. And they were two of many. These are held up as symbols of the Lord's limitless forgiveness. Strange that God could forgive things like murder and genocide but can't look past two dudes loving each other.

Of course that's not the issue, Christians will cry. The pertinent thing is that sinners repent, and not go on living in sin!

First of all, if your personal scales of justice aren't going off, that's a huge problem. Mass murderers are much more deserving of eternal damnation than homos, no matter how sorry they are for mass murdering all those people.

Second, there are many problems with the bible's stance on homosexuality in a modern context. It is described in Leviticus alongside things like "not laying bare the nakedness (fucking) of a menstruating woman". I've unrepentently done that shit tons of times. It's also listed in the new Testament alongside such awful sins as "lying", "covetousness", and "drunkenness".

Ready to tell liars and drunks that you can't make them cakes, and what's more - they won't be "inheriting the kingdom of god"?

It's bullshit and vta knows it. Any attempt to justify that hateful bigotry with the bible falls apart, simply by using the bible. Your backwoods pseudo-orthodoxy grade-school theology ain't shit, son.

 

[Midswat]

VTA do you think homosexuality is a choice?

 

[VTA]

Thanfully for those men, God jduges on an entire life's body of work and not on periods and instances.

The extreme instances you cite are perfect examples of God's sovereignty in more than just displaying His 'right' to show mercy on whom he will have mercy. They're examples of God's unwillngness to declare lost causes and invalidate your mischaracterization of the Christians motive.

No where does anyone, aside from an animal like Phelps, state that God can't forgive homosexuals. It may take a 'holy shit' moment for some that He has elected for life to come to their senses, but in His time they'll see the truth and repent.

The difference here is repentence. Instead of faulting God for a fogiving spirit, fault the man who refuses to take advantage of that grace and goes to his death cursing the source of life, simply because he enjoyed some mindless, passing sin.

There does come a time of a calcified heart where repentence is not an option, but we don't know when that is and mischaracterizing the proper Christian view say's more about whether or not you're capable of being honest in these discussions. I don't know if you're truly ignorant or at least hoping I am and won't catch these things, but you're wrong in any event.

God's view of homosexuality is readily aparent to anyone willing to be honest an well-versed in what God himself say's about it. It's not merely wicked, or sinful, it's an abomination a detestable thing. I know nobody likes to get into the why's and wherefore's while pretending God is simply writing off an arbitrary list of shit that might sound fun, but the fact is, it's a biological disaster and one that won't last for the human condition. His view has never changed concerning it. Our responsibility to it as a sin has, but He hasn't.