- Thread starter superpunk
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Not really necessary it doesn't appear you have enough knowledge to hang with or without me checking google and you either don't understand or are willingly ignoring how theology works and has worked throughout history. (Your responses thus far have amounted to little more than "Nuh-uh") It's adorable watching you act like there is some sort of concrete "there" in the bible. Sit down with one of the rapture's advocates and tell them that the scriptures about a woman sitting at a stone mill while the woman next to her is taken away are just metaphors for...whatever your "correct" biblical interpretation has decided it's a metaphor for. Sit down with someone who subscribes to modern day Arianism and tell them how the trinity is irrefutable. You'll sit there and pelt each other with proof texts all day, because....surprise!...
...It's all made up bro. Just the musings of a bunch of old men, sitting around reading fairy tales and pontificating to one another.
skidadl
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I would never pretend to know everything about much of anything. Still, it's pretty cool to see that instead of acknowledging that the rapture is NOT in the bible you claim I can't "hang" with you. That's a good one.
Check it out, I started in ministry at the age of 19. I planted an independent church in one city in TX that started from 0 and went to 400 in a matter of years. I then did the same thing in FL. Now I do the same thing in another city in TX where our church has 1600 member=s.
I have been everything from a junkie in prison with a 7th grade education (I actually went 2 weeks into the 8th grade:naughty) to in ministry, having graduate degrees and having gone to seminary specializing in CHURCH HISTORY, apologetics, and evangelism. I have dedicated the last 18 years of my life to studying scripture in every way possible. I have been around just about every denominational church you could imagine and thoroughly looked into the beliefs of those ideas. Still, I am no expert and never claimed to be.
Throughout all of those years I have been a loyal follower of the idea that a man can lead me in my walk to being very bitter and swearing I would never be part of a church again and back to leading in ministry. So don't be confused. My walk has been the heart and soul of my life and an intense passion that is deeply enthralled into a life of studying the bible. I doubt very seriously that you have dedicated your life to scripture study in the way that I have. Maybe you are way smarter than me and it only takes it being a part time hobby to surpass what I have learned much quicker. I wouldn't doubt it, lots of people are smarter than me.
Still, after all of this, the walls of the church are the place that I am the most uncomfortable. Being that I am on staff at a large church this would seem as though its a conflict but it's really not. Crazy thing is, I talked with my pastor about this last night. I told him I do not get excited about church because I see so much waste and so much that is not like the teachings of Jesus. He agreed and we had a great talk.
I am most comfortable in the trenches, with heathens, the hurting, people who really need answers. I am most comfortable in the poorest areas where people get high, cuss like a sailor and generally are depraved. After all, that is where Jesus would hang. He WENT out and mixed it up with people and was persecuted for it by the "religious" people. He proclaimed that He didn't come into the world to condemn it, but to save it. He was only harsh to the religious hypocrites and gentle to those who needed and wanted answers. Pimps, scoundrels and hoes were his homies, lol.
So yeah, I got tired of the ridiculous debates about the stuff that isn't in the bible. I got tired of seeing the folks that are called to love the world continue to spew hate and get drawn into stupid debates about commentary on the bible rather than the bible itself. The American church has evolved into something that is mostly powerless to help because Americans are generally interested in their own desires (I'm not guiltless).
So at the end of the day I'm just a regular guy who loves Jesus, had a transformational experience many years ago and has seen the same in the life of many other people. I could go on and on about REAL things that I have lived in my journey.
Sheik
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lol
skidadl
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I suck at message boards. I'm sure that many people have quit the internet because of me.
I never intended to debate the validity of the rapture. That was your mistake - I think it's just as stupid as the rest of the bible. What I want to do is get you to see that your "right way" of looking at the bible is just one of thousands. There is no right way, because it's all completely made up. It's one huge circular logic pit of despair. Pretending you know the right way to go about analyzing it is just ridiculous. You appear unable to comprehend how theology works at all. If you did you would be alot humbler about insisting that your POV is correct when there are hundreds of different POVs on nearly every biblical subject - all with differing amounts of validity. Why is that? Again, because it is all made up. It's a mental exercise in Interpretive Literature.
Remember being in school, and you'd all read a poem, and the teacher would ask each individual to interpret the deeper meaning of the passage? Everyone would have different opinions. Eventually, maybe you could come to a consensus as a class. Did that make you "right"? Had you stumbled upon the writer's intent? Maybe, maybe not. What you did was make your best guess, and then everyone compromised and eventually agreed. If a small minority dissent - no big deal.
That's theology in a nutshell. Only the majority throughout history has either killed or banished the minority dissenters, as they continue to pretend they are doing anything but reading fiction and legend and assigning a deeper (entirely human) meaning to it. There is no "right" answer or way to do it. Pull back the curtain, Dorothy.
As for your life story - cool story bro. Really not at all relevant to the discussion.
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Oh, and to be clear, I do believe that some of the events in the bible took place. I do not believe all of it to be grounded in factual happenings, though. That combined with me not believing that Jesus was the divine son of God has my faith more centered in a not knowing what the real truth is. I would never say that Christians are flat out wrong. I just don't have the guts to be able to go out on a limb and have faith in something that I can't see or have no proof of. Maybe that's weakness on my part. I do have beliefs, but I do not have faith in anything. There is a big difference between the two that a lot of people (including fellow agnostics) can't see.
I will be honest, being raised in small Baptist churches in tiny towns riddled with a ton of hypocrisy started me down this path of bitterness towards the church as a whole, but it in no way encapsulates where I have ended up in this life long questioning of all things religious.
Anyway, thought I would share. Thanks for listening.
I will be honest, being raised in small Baptist churches in tiny towns riddled with a ton of hypocrisy started me down this path of bitterness towards the church as a whole, but it in no way encapsulates where I have ended up in this life long questioning of all things religious.
Anyway, thought I would share. Thanks for listening.
as much as I hate you, you're an idiot who is impressed by wall o' text
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And you have been the poster child for humble in this debate? lol
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Take your medicine. You haven't given anything to this debate at all except "OMG TEH BIBEL IS STOOPID".
Jesus forgives me for it.
Then you can't or won't read. kinda like skidltabl
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I never understood this. Many years ago people in Greece believed in Zeus, people in Norway believed in Odin, people in Egypt believed in Ra, and so on and so on. Years later, "society" has decided that's just nonsense and everyone should believe in the One True God. They dismissed generations of people's beliefs but demand that you recognize their belief system.
It's all fantasy. I apppreciate anyone who truly tries to live a quality life based on the principles in the Bible because they are trying to be a good person, help others, etc. but I won't be shoving my beliefs down your throat, so please don't try to push yours on me. Most importantly, keep your religion out of my government. What you do in your church and in your homes, as long as you aren't hurting anyone, is none of my business, I don't want to see it at my work, my kids' schools, and in the laws that govern our nation.
It's all fantasy. I apppreciate anyone who truly tries to live a quality life based on the principles in the Bible because they are trying to be a good person, help others, etc. but I won't be shoving my beliefs down your throat, so please don't try to push yours on me. Most importantly, keep your religion out of my government. What you do in your church and in your homes, as long as you aren't hurting anyone, is none of my business, I don't want to see it at my work, my kids' schools, and in the laws that govern our nation.