Annnnnd - The Terrorists win. Belgium irony

[Doomsday]

We can't measure the number of people living in poverty?

Of course we can. Except the definition of "poverty" keeps changing. They move the goalposts in order to justify continuing the "war" which is really just creating a victim group, a dependent group, to maintain the stranglehold.

Spending money in an attempt to better the lives of Americans versus spending money to kill some extremists, which will ultimately sway a few more people to the extreme. I'll take the former.

It's the blame America mentality. We create more "extremists" than we kill. That's a laugh.

Plenty of counties have capable militaries. At best, the US is the only country willing to fund this indefinite war which is part of the problem. The entirety of the European Union has a larger GDP than the US and yet they collectively spend 1/3rd that the US does on defense.

U.S. vs. Europe: There's a clear economic winner - CNNMoney

Regardless it's beside the point. When we pulled their fat out of the fire in WW2 it became their luxury not to be spending a great deal of money on their own defense. I assume you've heard of NATO?

Seriously though, is there no middle ground? It's either complete abandonment or waging war? What were things like before 2001? Not a single American lived in the ME?

Answer your own question. You must not know about the terrorist attacks in the ME and Europe, targeting Americans for 40 years prior to 9/11?

The parameter I favor is less US involvement. It's been 15 years now. If this was a winnable war, how long should we expect to wait until it's over?

I understand now. You just want it over and don't care the outcome. You're just tired of hearing about it. You have no specifics and no ideas for a solution, you're just tired of the whole thing. Darn it.


That's exactly what the Jihad is counting on.

 

[Hoofbite]

I answered this in the second post. Saying "you can't win a war against a ideology" is a canard, a old chestnut. We're done just exactly that, many times. The Nazi ideology still exists, but has no teeth. Bushido still does too. Fascism? Same deal. We fought these ideologies, and won. Wiped out their ability to do damage.

And I didn't address it the first time because I didn't think it was a valid comparison.

Yes, you can beat a state-sponsored ideology but I thought the topic at hand was apparent enough to distinguish between that and religious extremism.

Sure, defeat the state and the ideology ceases to exist. Which state should we defeat in this war?

 

[Hoofbite]

Of course we can. Except the definition of "poverty" keeps changing. They move the goalposts in order to justify continuing the "war" which is really just creating a victim group, a dependent group, to maintain the stranglehold.
It's the blame America mentality. We create more "extremists" than we kill. That's a laugh.

It's not about blaming America. Feel free to interpret it in that fashion if you wish but you can acknowledge reality without assuming any blame. If the actions of the coalition weren't giving credibility to the claims of the extremist - and thereby increasing their appeal -, then why the fuck isn't the war over? How many bodies do they have left to sacrifice?

U.S. vs. Europe: There's a clear economic winner - CNNMoney

This has nothing to do with what I said. Somehow a specific point in time pertaining to the state of both economies is supposed to explain away the last 2 decades of military spending? Okay. Have at it if you like.

Regardless it's beside the point. When we pulled their fat out of the fire in WW2 it became their luxury not to be spending a great deal of money on their own defense. I assume you've heard of NATO?

So the American people get to pay for world security indefinitely because of a war that occurred over half a century ago? I guess that makes sense.

Answer your own question. You must not know about the terrorist attacks in the ME and Europe, targeting Americans for 40 years prior to 9/11?
I understand now. You just want it over and don't care the outcome. You're just tired of hearing about it. You have no specifics and no ideas for a solution, you're just tired of the whole thing. Darn it.

That's exactly what the Jihad is counting on.

Of course I want it over. Why would anyone not? The number of lives and money wasted should be enough for anyone to want it over.

Do you not want it over? As for specifics and solutions, who the fuck am I to throw my 2 cents into the pot if the US Government can't seem to get it right over the span of 15 years? Who the fuck are you to throw your 2 cents in?

It's pretty unreal. The war on terror has been an unmitigated failure. Of course I don't have the fucking answer (and neither do you by the way) but I can tell you what doesn't work. What doesn't work is sending American lives and trillions of tax-payer dollars. Hasn't worked yet, hard to imagine it ever will.

 

[yimyammer]

I feel u Hoof, I think the reality is this issue is like crime, its never going to stop or go away.

Therefore you always have to fight it. Not necessarily with boots on the ground with a massive army but thats an option when necessary.

I think the methods will change and evolve as will the terrorists. I agree with you that we shouldn't have to carry the load by ourselves and given that seemingly every country is effected by this, I hope to see much more cooperation and involvement, both militarily and financially

To me, the best chance of success is if the Muslims themselves would stamp this out but I think there's an underlying acceptance and approval with too many and in the case of the Wahhabis, they're leading the charge and want everyone dead or muslim.

Then there is Israel, the great fomenter, that appears to unite virtually all Muslims in opposition which will always be a spark & justification for violence