2016 NFL Week #11: Baltimore Ravens (5-4) @ Dallas Cowboys (8-1)

[Scot]

I don't know

Without Aikman we don't become a Dynasty

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Yeah, no way do we do what we did without Troy.

 

[English Cowboy]

I don't know

Without Aikman we don't become a Dynasty

OK. So Jerry fires Jimmy after a couple of seasons. Jerry then sells the franchise to Donald Trump in 1994. Trump then moves the franchise to Baltimore before the Browns get there and they become the Baltimore Deplorables and then win multiple Superbowls. This is fun.

Yeah, no way do we do what we did without Troy.

 

[dbair1967]

Comparing the Dak pick to the Roger pick is like comparing apples to oranges.

The Dak pick was lucky because if things had gone to plan in the draft he wouldn't be a Dallas Cowboy right now. The Roger pick was a 'shot to nothing'. They got a Heisman Trophy winner with a 10th round pick. That's high reward for low risk. They repeated the trick with Herschel 20 years later. A Heisman winner for a 5th round pick. They knew the USFL probably wouldn't amount to shit so it was worth a punt. Genius if you ask me.

I believe the Cowboys also took Carl Lewis with a 12th round pick in the early 80's despite him never playing a down of college football at Houston. No harm done. Only a 12th rounder. Could have been the next Bob Hayes. You never know.

Sorry, but we got the best player in college football, one of the transcendent players of his time in the damn 10th round. I don't care if your rationale is "well they just took him because he was a good player who happened to be there". That's b/s, any of the other existing teams COULD have done that, but chose not to (for whatever reason). And every team passed on having his rights MULTIPLE TIMES.

That's called GETTING LUCKY.

As for your "going according to plan comment" unless you have the top pick in the draft, every move you make is dependent on what the other teams in front of you do first. You cant PLAN for a trade up for Paxton Lynch and assume "its a done deal" until its actually a DONE DEAL.

So what, they had other guys rated ahead of Prescott? What the hell difference does that make? The fact is we took him and nobody else did. we got lucky beyond belief to 1) Get him where we did and even more amazingly 2) How good he has been from day one

 

[dbair1967]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that both picks were lucky. But a different kind of luck.

The Roger pick was like ''If everything goes to plan we'll take Roger here.''.

The Dak pick was like "Shit, it's all gone wrong. Suppose we better take Dak then.".

Huh? You mean you believe they "planned" to take Roger in the 10th rd? And that they knew nobody else would?

WTF

Again we got lucky with Prescott. It doesn't matter that we had other guys rated ahead of him or even tried to get into position to get someone else. Other teams could have taken Prescott but didn't. We lucked out at their expense.

 

[dbair1967]

we had the 4th pick overall in that draft. not inconceivable that he would have been there when we picked. but would we have bailed on Meredith so soon?

I don't think there's much doubt he'd have been the 1st or 2nd pick that yr without a Naval commitment. he was possibly the greatest college football player of alltime at that point. Everyone knew he was an amazing talent. This wasn't some Tony Romo situation where nobody knew who he was or had no idea what his talent was like.

 

[dbair1967]

I'm not sure what people are even pissed at Romo about. Because he didn't celebrate enough when we scored? Seriously?

If Dak got hurt and Tony refused to go in a game or did something that actually affected the team, then you'd have a legit gripe. But complaining that his press statement wasn't to your liking or he doesn't have the right look on his face on the sideline sounds like a bunch of junior high girls gossiping in the lunch room.

According to the article, he blew off pregame warmups and stuff too.

 

[bbgun]

I don't think there's much doubt he'd have been the 1st or 2nd pick that yr without a Naval commitment. he was possibly the greatest college football player of alltime at that point. Everyone knew he was an amazing talent. This wasn't some Tony Romo situation where nobody knew who he was or had no idea what his talent was like.

this presumes that one of the three teams ahead of us desperately needed a QB. even Dallas didn't really need Roger at that point.

 

[dbair1967]

Here's a Sliding Doors scenario to mess with your brains. Let's say the Packers do lose to the Cards in '88 and take Aikman. Who does Jimmy take at pick no.2? Barry Sanders? Derrick Thomas? Deion? Tony Mandarich!!? Someone else? And how do the 90's play out in such a scenario?

Sanders or Thomas almost assuredly.

I don't know that anything was ever discussed about a what if thing, when Jimmy got here we already had the #1 overall pick secured and Landry and the Cowboys FO had already intended to take Aikman #1.

Jimmy's only comment that I remember is basically there was no discussion about taking anyone other than Aikman #1

 

[dbair1967]

I reckon he takes Barry Sanders. The Herschel trade takes place before the season starts, not during it. We still get a shit load of picks for the trade. We still win multiple Superbowl and are still 'Team of the 90's'. Just with Barry instead of Emmitt.

I doubt we'd have been dominant team we became, let alone a 3 time Champion without Aikman. There was no other QB anywhere near his caliber available. I doubt we'd have even been a yr over yr playoff team with Steve Walsh or Jeff George as QB

 

[MrB]

Has Jimmy actually commented on that? I'm not aware of it if he has.

My guess would be Derrick Thomas, just because he loves defense so much. He still had big connections to OSU and that may have affected his decision on Sanders, but I can't see him taking a RB that high. Good question though.

I actually think he'd have taken Deion. Jimmy knew the in's and out's of every player playing in Florida at the time and Deion was such a rare talent that I don't think he would have passed on him. Thomas was a great player and may have been the pick but Deion seems the type of player that Jimmy was bringing to Dallas at the time. I don't think Sanders fit the type of RB Jimmy was looking for. Similar size and stature to Emmitt but Emmitt was a better all around player (blocker/receiver) and was a more consistent runner.

 

[dbair1967]

this presumes that one of the three teams ahead of us desperately needed a QB. even Dallas didn't really need Roger at that point.

Guess it might have depended on who they'd have had to pick from. Rounds were only 14 picks long in 1964. Two QB's were taken right after we picked 4th, if Staubach would have been available without the service commitment I'm sure he easily goes to Detroit (5th) or LA Rams (7th) at the latest. Both those teams picked far lesser rated QB's.

You also have to remember the AFL slant as someone else mentioned in this thread. If he were available day one, one of those teams might have taken him 1st or 2nd overall and paid him bookoos of money to become a face of the league.

 

[MrB]

Yeah, no way do we do what we did without Troy.

They might have if the John Elway trade had actually gone through.

 

[dbair1967]

I actually think he'd have taken Deion. Jimmy knew the in's and out's of every player playing in Florida at the time and Deion was such a rare talent that I don't think he would have passed on him. Thomas was a great player and may have been the pick but Deion seems the type of player that Jimmy was bringing to Dallas at the time. I don't think Sanders fit the type of RB Jimmy was looking for. Similar size and stature to Emmitt but Emmitt was a better all around player (blocker/receiver) and was a more consistent runner.

We know in 1990 Jimmy highly coveted LB's Junior Seau, James Francis and Lamar Lathon. I think its a virtual lock he'd have picked Thomas over Deion in 1989.

 

[English Cowboy]

Sorry, but we got the best player in college football, one of the transcendent players of his time in the damn 10th round. I don't care if your rationale is "well they just took him because he was a good player who happened to be there". That's b/s, any of the other existing teams COULD have done that, but chose not to (for whatever reason). And every team passed on having his rights MULTIPLE TIMES.

That's called GETTING LUCKY.

As for your "going according to plan comment" unless you have the top pick in the draft, every move you make is dependent on what the other teams in front of you do first. You cant PLAN for a trade up for Paxton Lynch and assume "its a done deal" until its actually a DONE DEAL.

So what, they had other guys rated ahead of Prescott? What the hell difference does that make? The fact is we took him and nobody else did. we got lucky beyond belief to 1) Get him where we did and even more amazingly 2) How good he has been from day one

Huh? You mean you believe they "planned" to take Roger in the 10th rd? And that they knew nobody else would?

WTF

Again we got lucky with Prescott. It doesn't matter that we had other guys rated ahead of him or even tried to get into position to get someone else. Other teams could have taken Prescott but didn't. We lucked out at their expense.

Can't you read? I agreed that they got lucky both times, just in different ways. And yes, I believe they planned to take Staubach IF he was still there at a certain point in the draft when they felt it was worth the risk. Of course they got lucky that no other team was braver and picked him earlier.

 

[Doomsday]

So... In the dbair world, if he thinks there's any degree of luck involved in anything, then that somehow minimizes Jerry's drunken dumbass stumblebum luck in finding a franchise qb at the exact moment he really needed one.

Duly noted.

 

[Doomsday]

Can't you read?

No he cannot. For fully half this thread he thought I was saying Dak was lucky.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What a stupid argument. Who the fuck cares?

 

[bbgun]

Barry was better than Emmitt. Discuss.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then follow it up with Elvis >> Michael Jackson