2016 NFL Draft Thread...

[dbair1967]

Yup

Well there you go, Casserly obviously knows QB's

 

[Midswat]

To be fair... Carr had talent. Multiple draft gurus pegged him as the next Aikman, or an Aikman-clone. I very distinctly remember that. He flopped because that OL was so bad that he just was shell shocked by his second year in the league.

Shuler idk. Didn't follow the draft that closely back then. But he was another guy who a lot of people loved. Very talented, physically. No clue why he didn't pan out.

 

[Midswat]

I'm not defending Casserly though. He also took a very bad WR #4 overall with Washington. And I don't think any of his Texans drafts were very good.

I'm just saying... judging QB's is hard. Thats why if I was an owner, I'd pay as much $ as it took to people like Ron Wolfe and Jim Harbaugh, guys who know Qb's and have track records of finding the right guys, for their opinions.

 

[yimyammer]

@CharleyCasserly 6h6 hours ago
To me Jamies Winston and Marcus Mariota are clearly better prospects coming out of college than Jared Goff and Carson Wentz @nflnetwork

fucking media

 

[Midswat]

It's odd. And almost makes you wonder with some many drastic varying opinions out there, why there's such a cottage industry for these draft gurus and talking heads.

 

[dbair1967]

To be fair... Carr had talent. Multiple draft gurus pegged him as the next Aikman, or an Aikman-clone. I very distinctly remember that. He flopped because that OL was so bad that he just was shell shocked by his second year in the league.

Shuler idk. Didn't follow the draft that closely back then. But he was another guy who a lot of people loved. Very talented, physically. No clue why he didn't pan out.

I don't remember anyone claiming Carr was anything like Aikman.

He flopped because he wasn't any good, not because of anyone around him.

 

[dbair1967]

Bill Polian said on Sirius-XM NFL that he's hearing that the Cowboys are going to take Zeke Elliott at 4 and also said "its almost a foregone conclusion" in league circles now.

 

[onlyonenow]

I don't remember anyone claiming Carr was anything like Aikman.

He flopped because he wasn't any good, not because of anyone around him.

like so much else you spew that is garbage. There is no real way to know if David Carr could have been really good because NO ONE could have taken THAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT and not been shell shocked.

 

[cockstrong]

What was the point of signing Morris than?

 

[yimyammer]

Bill Polian said on Sirius-XM NFL that he's hearing that the Cowboys are going to take Zeke Elliott at 4 and also said "its almost a foregone conclusion" in league circles now.

That may prove to be true but why in the fuck would they let the league know this info? How does this info become a foregone conclusion in league circles?

There's the jerri factor that has to run his mouth at all times so if its true, he's likely the culprit but its stupid as fuck.

plus I think its a horrible use of the pick for the cost involved vs the amount invested in the line to make that position succeed with lesser players

 

[bbgun]

I don't remember anyone claiming Carr was anything like Aikman.

He flopped because he wasn't any good, not because of anyone around him.

Carr came into the NFL with a significant hitch in his throwing motion that they tried to correct. Troy had no such concerns.

 

[ZeroClub]

That may prove to be true but why in the fuck would they let the league know this info? How does this info become a foregone conclusion in league circles?

There's the jerri factor that has to run his mouth at all times so if its true, he's likely the culprit but its stupid as fuck.

plus I think its a horrible use of the pick for the cost involved vs the amount invested in the line to make that position succeed with lesser players

I think I understand what you are saying. I've heard other people make a similar point ... that the strength of an outstanding OL is that it allows the team to get good performance out of lesser RBs ... and because you can get good performance out of a lesser RB, it would be wasteful for a team with an outstanding OL to acquire a top notch RB.

There seems to be an assumption that a top notch RB wouldn't significantly outperform a lesser RB if both were playing behind an outstanding OL.

But why would this be true?

If you have a top notch RB who breaks long runs when plays are blocked especially well and if you have an outstanding OL that blocks especially well at a relatively high rate, wouldn't you expect the top notch RB to be especially/extremely productive behind the outstanding OL?

 

[yimyammer]

I think I understand what you are saying. I've heard other people make a similar point ... that the strength of an outstanding OL is that it allows the team to get good performance out of lesser RBs ... and because you can get good performance out of a lesser RB, it would be wasteful for a team with an outstanding OL to acquire a top notch RB.

There seems to be an assumption that a top notch RB wouldn't significantly outperform a lesser RB if both were playing behind an outstanding OL.

But why would this be true?

If you have a top notch RB who breaks long runs when plays are blocked especially well and if you have an outstanding OL that blocks especially well at a relatively high rate, wouldn't you expect the top notch RB to be especially/extremely productive behind the outstanding OL?

Yes, good points.

My hesitation comes from the cost involved ($20million+ guaranteed and the #4 pick) and the importance of resource management on an already top heavy (cap wise) offense. I'd be willing to sacrifice some running success for a better defense and a deeper team, therefore I prefer a trade down to attempt to address this issue with multiple picks vs being reliant on the #4 pick living up to expectations.

If no trade is possible and he's the best player on the board, I guess you have to take him but it appears he might be overdrafted at #4 (time may prove otherwise).

In my dream scenario, they trade down & pick up two 2nds (or better), then draft Lynch (or Cook), Henry and a guy like Dodd with their top 3 picks. In that scenario, they address 3 needs, spend less and presumably have another pick acquired from the trade to potential grab another quality player. They end up using 4 picks (at the cost of 2) which should increase their odds of success.

In the current NFL structure, I think math and game theory can be creatively applied to build a better, deeper team and I think its safe to say with Dallas' management structure, they need all the margin for error they can get.

Its been said that the hit rate in the draft is 50% or less, so using 4 picks should theoretically land you two players, whereas staying put may only land you one.

Whatever they do, they really need to hit on that #4 pick, they can't afford another Claiborne scenario imo.

 

[dbair1967]

like so much else you spew that is garbage. There is no real way to know if David Carr could have been really good because NO ONE could have taken THAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT and not been shell shocked.

Right. Carry on.

 

[dbair1967]

Carr came into the NFL with a significant hitch in his throwing motion that they tried to correct. Troy had no such concerns.

Yep. Also didn't have anywhere near the arm or pure passing skill.

Was nowhere close to the same type of grade at QB. And his play over his career proved that, he was awful.

 

[NoShame]

I think we finally need to get one of the best players in a draft class. I'm against trading back. Sit and take BPA as it pertains to our needs.

Jack, Ramsey, Goff, Bosa. In that order for me.

Elliot, like most offensive prospects, is being over-hyped by fans and media right now. He's a very good prospect because he's the best most well-rounded RB to come out in some time but he's not nearly the runner that Gurley was. Add to it that its very possible we only get 1 contract out of him. #4 overall. We need more out of it.

Draft defense. Fix that unit already with one of the best players in this class. Or take Goff as the QB of the future if he's there. Don't reach on a RB.

 

[NoShame]

I've been a HUGE supporter of Jack thru this process. Love the way he plays football and he's clearly the number 1 guy in the draft IMO. But IF this is true then we unfortunately have to pass on him:

A source tells Les Bowen of the Philadelphia Daily News that UCLA LB Myles Jack’s knee is “a time bomb.”

Bowen’s source added that Jack’s knee could allow him to play several good years, but the concern is that bone and cartilage are starting to break away.

According to Bowen’s source, Jack’s knee situation could be similar to former Saints and Jets Jonathan Vilma, how played around six-seven healthy years in the NFL.

Following last week’s medical recheck, Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reported that there were “differing opinions” regarding Jack’s knee. Some teams believe the healing in Jack’s knee wasn’t fast enough while others are okay with what they saw.

Meanwhile, Dane Brugler reported that Jack’s medical recheck did not go well for “several teams” who have “long-term question marks” regarding Jack. According to Brugler, “doctors don’t know if he’ll play 10 games or 10 years.”

In fact, former NFL physician David Chao doesn’t think any team will be willing to use a top-10 pick on Jack.

Jack is considered to be one of the top talents in this year’s draft class, so even if the concerns are overblown in term of his immediate future, questions will remain about the long-term health of his knee.

During his three years at UCLA, Jack recorded 178 tackles, 15 tackles for a loss, one sack, four interceptions, a forced fumble, two fumble recoveries and 19 pass defenses.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Same here on Jack. Shame if true. But I wouldn't rule out that some of that could be disinformation from teams interested in him.

 

[bbgun]

I didn't see the point of drafting a linebacker who's no threat to sack the QB. He's not the second coming of Khalil Mack. sideline to sideline tackler? nice skill, but not worthy of a top 5 pick.

 

[Doomsday]

NO ONE could have taken THAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT and not been shell shocked.

Other than of course, Troy. How easily people forget the beatings he took in 89, 90, 91 and even 92.

Of course, it would help if they were at least out of diapers, while Troy played through the stompings. They might have some chance to remember what it was like.