*** 2014 NFL Draft thread ***

[wyvrn]

He was benched because he was hurt

He was benched because he couldn't cover. All players play nicked up. Claiborne wasn't injured to the point he couldn't play, it was just a nagging injury. It was well documented his confidence was shot. I think they need to play him more man, and he may regain his confidence. He is not a zone player, which shows the team hasn't a clue about drafting the right players for their system and sticking with that system.

 

[cmd34]

Martin wasn't in their plans originally

They claimed to have 4 hopefuls for pick 16: Barr, Donald, Shazier, and Martin, in that order. They were talking to Shazier's agent when Pitt called and drafted him. If that scenario is true, Martin should have been pick.

 

[wyvrn]

What?

I've heard of reaching by taking a player earlier than he should go.

Never heard of reaching by other teams taking other players later than they should go.

That's a new one.

I've stirred up a hornet's nest. This is a lot of fun for me

I said reached for the position, not the player. Good OG are ALWAYS available in the 3rd round of every draft, every year. And Martin is a better OG than OT. So there is that.

 

[wyvrn]

They claimed to have 4 hopefuls for pick 16: Barr, Donald, Shazier, and Martin, in that order. They were talking to Shazier's agent when Pitt called and drafted him. If that scenario is true, Martin should have been pick.

The wanted to trade back, which was obvious by their behavior in the draft room. The analysts on the radio are saying the same thing. Martin is a nice fallback, but once Barr was gone, they wanted to trade back and pick up Lawrence in the later 1st while getting another pick. It was a better plan than what transpired today.

 

[cmd34]

Claiborne has been a HUGE disappointment. Throw in that we traded a 1 and a 2 to get him and it gets worse. Add Jerry's comments that he was rated higher than Patrick Peterson and was the highest rated defensive player since Deion, and it becomes a fricken tragedy.

Claiborne's constantly being hurt and celebrating every incomplete pass like he just scored are also kicks in the nuts.

 

[cmd34]

The wanted to trade back, which was obvious by their behavior in the draft room. The analysts on the radio are saying the same thing. Martin is a nice fallback, but once Barr was gone, they wanted to trade back and pick up Lawrence in the later 1st while getting another pick. It was a better plan than what transpired today.

Oh they definitely wanted and tried to trade down. They did not get enough value to pass up the value they saw in Martin. In year's past, Jerry would have traded down anyway. Look, I'm the last person to give the Jones any credit for being smart but they were yesterday. Not so much today though.

 

[wyvrn]

Oh they definitely wanted and tried to trade down. They did not get enough value to pass up the value they saw in Martin. In year's past, Jerry would have traded down anyway. Look, I'm the last person to give the Jones any credit for being smart but they were yesterday. Not so much today though.

I pretty much agree with this, considering the 1st round in isolation. But after witnessing what we did today, then you can easily think up several scenarios where they get their favorite, Lawrence, while keeping their 2nd and 3rd and picking up 3 total starters. I would give up Martin for another very solid OG and starter at another position. But the Cowboys don't have that sort of draft savvy or vision, do they?

 

[dbair1967]

Actually at G they are pretty close in quality. I am a huge life long ND fan, and I saw every one of Martin's games and I know him well. I think he is very solid, but unless Dallas plays him at OT, then they reached for his position without need.

ok, your delusional now but ok

If he moves to RT, he will be very solid, though probably not a pro-bowler. That being said, if they wanted just a G this year, they would have used that 1st round pick on a different player, such a Lawrence if they valued him that high, and their 2nd on another good player. That would have been a wiser use of resources to get 3 starters.

I'm not going to argue that getting three starters is potentially better than two, but you've already made the argument to me that picking players earlier yields better results and if so, we got two of the highest rated players at positions we needed help at.

 

[dbair1967]

I had that opinion yesterday until Dallas traded up for Lawrence. Well hell, why didn't they take him in the first if they had him rated that highly? The reason: they wanted to trade back, but couldn't get the value they wanted. Martin wasn't in their plans originally, Lawrence in the late 1st was.

I would still take 3 starters over 2. I know Martin well as a ND fan. He is good, but not spectacular.

I don't know how you can say that, everybody that covers the team has been saying for weeks they liked Martin at 16.

 

[dbair1967]

I've stirred up a hornet's nest. This is a lot of fun for me

I said reached for the position, not the player. Good OG are ALWAYS available in the 3rd round of every draft, every year. And Martin is a better OG than OT. So there is that.

You don't know that, he could be a perennial probowler at RT for all you know. he may start at RG or LG initially, but his tape at OT is pretty damn good. If his arms were a tad onger he'd have been a top-10 lock and would be playing T.

 

[dbair1967]

Where are you guys getting the idea they were trading down from 16?

Pretty sure everyone is saying Shazier was going to be the pick at 16 had Pitt not taken him.

 

[wyvrn]

ok, your delusional now but ok



I'm not going to argue that getting three starters is potentially better than two, but you've already made the argument to me that picking players earlier yields better results and if so, we got two of the highest rated players at positions we needed help at.

No my logic is sound. I know Martin. He was one of the best players on my favorite college team. I have said he could be a pro-bowl guard in a few years, but is most likely a slightly above average tackle. He has great intangibles, solid smarts, and good footwork. But he is smallish, does not push guys around, and has short arms. These limit his effectiveness at tackle.

Given that you can find great G in the 3rd round, then I would have changed my draft strategy. What we didn't know yesterday is that the Cowboys had a hard-on for Lawrence. Several national writers said they could see Lawrence going in the first. So if so, why didn't the Cowboys just pick him there.

Say they didn't get value at 16 trading back, but could pick up a 3rd. Then they could have gotten Lawrence plus 3 other starters in the first 3 rounds. Even if the trade value didn't work out for them, their overall haul of players would have yielded a better result.

The more I turn their options over in my mind, the more scenarios I can build where they improve their overall team more than what they did.

Sort of like what the 49ers, Patriots, and Ravens do every year.

 

[wyvrn]

Where are you guys getting the idea they were trading down from 16?

Pretty sure everyone is saying Shazier was going to be the pick at 16 had Pitt not taken him.

Every analyst locally is saying the same thing. They wanted to trade down after Barr, Shazier, and Donald were gone. But they didn't feel like they had the value. Given their trade today, I beg to differ. This is a deep draft and they could have picked up 3-4 starters instead of 2. Simple logic.

 

[dbair1967]

Every analyst locally is saying the same thing. They wanted to trade down after Barr, Shazier, and Donald were gone.

Hell the guys that cover the team were on live and all said Shazier was going to be the pick. Several guys that cover the team said before the draft they were hearing Shazier was going to be the pick.

They were mad because that was their guy and the Steelers took him, when basically nobody was saying they'd take that position there at 15.

 

[wyvrn]

Good night everyone, see you tomorrow.

Here's hoping they get at least one more starter on Saturday.

 

[wyvrn]

Hell the guys that cover the team were on live and all said Shazier was going to be the pick. Several guys that cover the team said before the draft they were hearing Shazier was going to be the pick.

They were mad because that was their guy and the Steelers took him, when basically nobody was saying they'd take that position there at 15.

Agree. Martin was a consolation they didn't want as much, however, considering their mad attempt to trade down. Hence Stephen Jones slamming the phone down right before they announced Martin.

 

[peplaw06]

Pretty sure somebody showed the numbers, and we have traded down far more than up since Jones bought the team.

In the last 7 years, only two teams have made fewer draft picks in the Top 100 than the Cowboys. One of those is Washington. That's pretty telling, especially when you combine it with the fact that we suck at drafting in rounds 4-7.

 

[cmd34]

dbair...on the war room cam, with about 2 minutes to go on the clock, Stephen got a call and slammed the phone down shaking his head no. Then Jerry told the guy to the right to call in the pick. Once that guy hung up the phone, they started high-fiving each other.


Jerry was asked about Stephen slamming down the phone in the PC and said he only did that because the call got disconnected. I saw it live and he was definitely shaking his head and mouthing "no" towards Jerry and Jason.

 

[peplaw06]

I heard they fielded trade offers after PIT took Shazier, but were planning on picking him and didn't have a trade partner ready. They didn't get an offer that knocked their socks off or that they thought was a better option than Martin.

 

[dbair1967]

I heard they fielded trade offers after PIT took Shazier, but were planning on picking him and didn't have a trade partner ready. They didn't get an offer that knocked their socks off or that they thought was a better option than Martin.

That's what I read and heard on the radio as well.

Jones even has quotes saying they were very surprised more offers didn't come in once Manziel was still there.