2013 Season Game Threads Mega-Merge

Genghis Khan · Aug 2, 2013

The only thing that might hold Witten back is the HOF bias against TEs.

Genghis Khan · Aug 2, 2013

I am beginning to think that those of you arguing against Witten in favor of those three named guys haven't actually looked at the numbers.

ThoughtExperiment · Aug 2, 2013

Iamtdg said:
The question is whether is a better TE than those 3. And, he is.

And Drew Pearson was a better player than Lynn Swann.

Iamtdg · Aug 2, 2013

ThoughtExperiment said:
And Drew Pearson was a better player than Lynn Swann.

Lynn Swann was vastly overrated. So, yeah, I would say Pearson was better than him.

ThoughtExperiment · Aug 2, 2013

That is my point, it's not always about the pure best player. It's about stats and highlights and winning teams that HOF voters can condense in their heads. I bet there have been a lot of WRs better than Swann, but he had the highlights and played for the team that got the trophies.

To clarify what I've said, I think Gronk is better than Witten -- he's just a freak talent.

I think Witten and Graham are roughly equal in what they offer, but Graham puts up the stats and makes the highlights.

I think Witten has been better than Davis thus far, because Davis had been a workout athlete who didn't live up to his potential. But he's started to produce, and he plays for a team that's had more success than ours has. Plus he's two years younger and has three years less wear and tear, so his career may well look better when all is said and done.

If I were having a draft right now, I'd take them over Witten, because I'm afraid Witten is about to slow down. He's got a decade of wear and tear on him now. (Gronk's health is a wild card there.)

I'm not saying Witten isn't worthy, just that so much of his value is as a tough all around player and chain-mover, and those intangibles might not be enough to get him in.

I really think one of the best things he has going for him is that Parcells drafted him.

Genghis Khan · Aug 2, 2013

I'm not sure what Swann versus Pearson has to do with this, other than HOF voters tend to be idiots.

Genghis Khan · Aug 2, 2013

ThoughtExperiment said:
That is my point, it's not always about the pure best player. It's about stats and highlights and winning teams that HOF voters can condense in their heads. I bet there have been a lot of WRs better than Swann, but he had the highlights and played for the team that got the trophies.

But you just said stats. Witten has the stats. That's undeniable.

To clarify what I've said, I think Gronk is better than Witten -- he's just a freak talent.

I think Witten and Graham are roughly equal in what they offer, but Graham puts up the stats and makes the highlights.

I think Witten has been better than Davis thus far, because Davis had been a workout athlete who didn't live up to his potential. But he's started to produce, and he plays for a team that's had more success than ours has. Plus he's two years younger and has three years less wear and tear, so his career may well look better when all is said and done.

If I were having a draft right now, I'd take them over Witten, because I'm afraid Witten is about to slow down. He's got a decade of wear and tear on him now. (Gronk's health is a wild card there.)

I'm not saying Witten isn't worthy, just that so much of his value is as a tough all around player and chain-mover, and those intangibles might not be enough to get him in.

Gronk: The Patriots use Gronk way differently so it's hard to compare. However, I'd agree with the notion that something like that rarely weighs heavily in the minds of HOF voters. So let's compare the stats. Gronk has one season - one - where his numbers jump out at you. Whether that's due to injury or whatever won't matter in HOF voting. So if we compare each player's best season...Witten had 96 catches for 1145 in 2007. Gronk had 90 catches for 1327 in 2011. More catches for Witten, more yards for Gronk. Roughly corresponds to how each player is used, and comes out roughly equal. Where they really separate is where Witten has six seasons of more than 80 catches, and seven seasons of more than 900 yards. Gronk has, well, that one season.

Graham: Graham had one season with 99 catches 1310 yards in 2011. Witten's best overall season was probably 2007 with 96/1145. Witten also had 110 catches last season so he's put up a better season in catches than Graham. Last season Graham was 85/982, Witten was 110, 1039, so Witten's most recent season was unquestionably better than Graham's. And, Witten has those 7 seasons over 900 yards and 6 over 80 catches. Graham has a long way to go to catch up.

Graham, like Gronk, has that one season that stands out. Even those singular seasons, however, find comparable equivalents in Witten's numbers. Neither had as good a year as Witten last year, and neither has had anywhere close to Witten's career as yet. And Witten is only 30 so it's not like he is done.

Davis I won't even mention because it is a ludicrous comparison, not worthy of refuting.

Sheik · Aug 2, 2013

Witten will get in, highly doubtful he makes it first ballot, though.

I don't read or listen much to outside opinions from other fans, but I'd guess he's about as close at it comes to being held in the regard of a "throwback" type player, in terms of toughness.

His reception numbers are crazy, and he does it year after year.

Dude should have at least 20+ more scores than he does, but I think he still gets the HOF nod.

marionbarberthe4th · Aug 2, 2013

Wiitten is slipping in blocking and plus it hasn't helped us run for shit anyways. So BFD

The others are better football players

Sheik · Aug 2, 2013

He'll crack the 1k reception mark with ease, he'll crack the 10k yardage mark, and he'll probably retire with 60 or so scores.

HOF, easy IMO.

cmd34(work) · Aug 2, 2013

Sunday's game

Who's the 1 player you are looking forward to seeing Sunday night???

JJ Wilcox for me. If he's trying to kill people in practice, what is going to happen in his first real game action?

marionbarberthe4th · Aug 2, 2013

It's a passing league hines ward has 1,000 for 12k and 85 scores

junk · Aug 2, 2013

cmd34(work) said:
Sunday's game

Who's the 1 player you are looking forward to seeing Sunday night???

JJ Wilcox for me. If he's trying to kill people in practice, what is going to happen in his first real game action?

He's a good choice for sure. Frederick is another because he is so critical to any chance of OL success

McSurdy obviously. Does he overtake Lee in preseason game 1? Or does it take until game 2?

Church....how has he recovered?

Wilbur...can he play at all?

That new QB. Does he toss one through a basketball hoop?

ThoughtExperiment · Aug 2, 2013

Genghis Khan said:
Where they really separate is where Witten has six seasons of more than 80 catches, and seven seasons of more than 900 yards. Gronk has, well, that one season.

LMAO. Gronk (and Graham) has only played three seasons. Of course Witten has much better career numbers -- he's played seven more years than they have.

And in those three short years -- they haven't even gotten to Witten's best year, which was his fourth -- they've already got far more TDs and yards than he did.

Witten never even got to 1000 yards... They both have 1300 yard years.

Witten caught 13 TD total in those three years... Graham had 25 and Gronk had 38. (Yes, they did play with far better QBs.)

GloryDaysRBack · Aug 2, 2013

I'm watching the OL Sunday. Fred, Leary, and Free. These guys will determine our season. I think we are fine defensively.

bbgun · Aug 2, 2013

[video=youtube;FOAn41OtI2A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOAn41OtI2A[/video]

fuck you, fins

junk · Aug 2, 2013

GloryDaysRBack said:
I'm watching the OL Sunday. Fred, Leary, and Free. These guys will determine our season. I think we are fine defensively.

I think we're weak in the middle of the DL

ThoughtExperiment · Aug 2, 2013

Garrett refuses to divulge whether Romo will play or not. LOL

I for one love the secrecy. Would hate for those Fins to have any kind of advantage in preparing for this crucial game.

Genghis Khan · Aug 2, 2013

marionbarberthe4th said:
It's a passing league hines ward has 1,000 for 12k and 85 scores

You can't compare WRs and TEs. How many TEs have 1000 catches and 12k yards?

Genghis Khan · Aug 2, 2013

ThoughtExperiment said:
LMAO. Gronk (and Graham) has only played three seasons. Of course Witten has much better career numbers -- he's played seven more years than they have.

And in those three short years -- they haven't even gotten to Witten's best year, which was his fourth -- they've already got far more TDs and yards than he did.

Witten never even got to 1000 yards... They both have 1300 yard years.

Witten caught 13 TD total in those three years... Graham had 25 and Gronk had 38. (Yes, they did play with far better QBs.)

That's precisely my point.

Who's better now? Look at last year's numbers. That's Witten.

Who is better career-wise (that's the relevant question for the HOF)? That's also Witten.

There is no other argument from what I can tell.

Are there reasons that Witten is better in both categories? Sure, but excuses don't get you into the HOF.

Could things change? Sure. But all we can say for sure right now is that Witten has the edge over all of them. "LMAO"

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