Why we need to fix our health care

[superpunk]

right unfortunately I can't spit on peoples faces and heal their blindness or pretend to take demons out of epileptic people so until then we have to find a way to get these people to doctors.

render caesar his due and all that jazz.

 

[2233boys]

That's good, but what is the plan and how much is invested on a personal level? If consideration for less fortunate is a concern, what measures do you support?

I have nothing that was why I asked the question.

 

[VTA]

Caesar wasn't responsible for the personal health of his subjects and it doesn't require a miracle to get involved and help people personally by taking care of an issue that's so obviously laying on your heart.

 

[VTA]

I have nothing that was why I asked the question.

I actually responded to your statement, but never the less, I hope you see where I am going with this.

 

[superpunk]

vta quit being an idiot. I can help charitably where I can but our health care problem is way bigger than can be helped on an individual or even local level. And I most certainly can't pay to treat the less fortunate on my own. So drop the what are you personally doing to help these people bullshit.

 

[superpunk]

Steven Brill makes the opposite case in a recent cover story in Time magazine. He painstakingly went through the actual bills that hospitals put out and found that they charge massively for routine procedures and medicines. He found, for example, a routine blood test, prophyrin (ph) 1, was billed to patients at a hospital at the rate of $199.50. Medicare pays for that same test, $13.94.

I know noone reads articles here but the article actually pointed out really well why collective bargaining works for us, whereas the current system where insurance companies and the medical sector just charge whatever the fuck they want.

vta: go help people get blood tests and CT scans yourself if you care so much.

vta to Eisenhower - Mr. President what are you personally doing to ensure that we can travel across this great nation on a system of highways? How many roads have you built?

facepalm

 

[2233boys]

I actually responded to your statement, but never the less, I hope you see where I am going with this.

I really don't but then again I'm not the one railing on the issue. I asked what the solution was and it doesn't matter why those children are poor. If the Presidents program isn't the answer, my original question remains unanswered what is the solution?

 

[VTA]

How big is our healthcare problem? Is an average over 75% coverage such a failure that you people are willing to just drop everything into the lap of some imbecilic faceless/not liable bunch of fools? Because you know, once Washington gets a stronghold, medical malpractice will go bye-bye.

Hospitals aren't government agencies, neither are charities. They were built up by people who didn't need government intervention to get things done and they did and they are obligated to their patients.

My point is, if you care so friggin much, you'd simply do something without demanding the entire population get dragged into this horse and pony show of dishonesty. Charity is something you decide to do personally, not something you demand everybody else do.

 

[VTA]

I know noone reads articles here but the article actually pointed out really well why collective bargaining works for us, whereas the current system where insurance companies and the medical sector just charge whatever the fuck they want.

vta: go help people get blood tests and CT scans yourself if you care so much.

vta to Eisenhower - Mr. President what are you personally doing to ensure that we can travel across this great nation on a system of highways? How many roads have you built?

facepalm

Sure. Or maybe I can just provide monetarily for the charity care of people who need those things.
What an alien concept!

But instead we can have Obama make doing that much harder for me to do by raising my taxes to fund... a bureaucracy.
Yeah...

 

[superpunk]

right I'm sure you and everyone else were just about to donate to a healthcare charity for infants (on top of what you're already paying bi-weekly in exorbitant insurance rates) but that damn Obama!

The point is that isn't something that should be left to the whim of the general populace. Maybe you would do it. Most wouldn't and don't. We've tried it your way for years and it sucks ass.

 

[2233boys]

Yeah not sure I can help the 25 million underinsured or uninsured children on my families income. But thanks again for the non answer.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah not sure I can help the 25 million underinsured or uninsured children on my families income. But thanks again for the non answer.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE CHILDREN

 

[2233boys]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE CHILDREN

I make over $5000 a year in charitable donations. What are you doing? Slightly ahead of that pace this year.

 

[VTA]

Yeah not sure I can help the 25 million underinsured or uninsured children on my families income. But thanks again for the non answer.

No one asks you to help 25 million (that was in response to SP BTW). But I'm sure your local mission has some people you can help. Ask your local church, they seem to be the only people who know where the missions are and will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.

It depends on your idea of a solution. Ensuring everyone coverage is damned near an impossibility. If I had a complete solution, I wouldn't be on this board goofing off with you people. The fact is none of us do, but that doesn't mean a person cannot recognize when a proposal is outright wrong and valid concerns raised. If people need to get contentious over that, that's their problem.

 

[VTA]

I make over $5000 a year in charitable donations. What are you doing? Slightly ahead of that pace this year.

I'm sure SP was sort of trying to mock me with that response, but that's really great.
I'm glad you do.

 

[superpunk]

And it's not just about doing what's right.

Socializing the process should (in theory at least, depending on how it's implemented) drive down costs across the board. When we all pay for something, we all pay less. In addition we have stronger bargaining power against insane medical costs. Why are the medical costs so high in some cases? Because there are so many uninsured, and hospitals have to treat them and then pass the cost on to the rest of us. In addition, universal health care would free people up to start new businesses and make different career decisions, because they aren't tied to their jobs so they have health care for their families, and there is a reduced cost (in taxes) to providing health care for their employees if they start a business. The benefits are enormous.

 

[VTA]

And it's not just about doing what's right.

Socializing the process should (in theory at least, depending on how it's implemented) drive down costs across the board. When we all pay for something, we all pay less. In addition we have stronger bargaining power against insane medical costs. Why are the medical costs so high in some cases? Because there are so many uninsured, and hospitals have to treat them and then pass the cost on to the rest of us. In addition, universal health care would free people up to start new businesses and make different career decisions, because they aren't tied to their jobs so they have health care for their families, and there is a reduced cost (in taxes) to providing health care for their employees if they start a business. The benefits are enormous.

How do we get bargaining power with a government agency?

I get the high costs and I'm board that that is a problem, but I'm not on board with another corrupt government agency with no competition for it's business i.e. monopolizing somethng as important as healthcare.

 

[superpunk]

through the evil bureacracy. See: what medicaire pays for items compared to what we have to pay.

any solution that doesn't socialize the problem leaves us with millions of uninsured or underinsured. Who is left footing the bill for all of them? Um, us. And it is expensive as fuck.

 

[Bluenoser]

Your country will never have decent healthcare for all unless they raise taxes or take more money from somewhere else, say your Military budget. Good luck trying to convince anyone here that those are good ideas.

 

[ThaBigP]

And it's not just about doing what's right.

Socializing the process should (in theory at least, depending on how it's implemented) drive down costs across the board. When we all pay for something, we all pay less. In addition we have stronger bargaining power against insane medical costs. Why are the medical costs so high in some cases? Because there are so many uninsured, and hospitals have to treat them and then pass the cost on to the rest of us. In addition, universal health care would free people up to start new businesses and make different career decisions, because they aren't tied to their jobs so they have health care for their families, and there is a reduced cost (in taxes) to providing health care for their employees if they start a business. The benefits are enormous.

Sorry, but it's the gov't that created by policy side-effect, and now perpetuates by law, the "employer=insurance" model, whereby you lose your insurance if you change jobs. During FDR's wage-and-price controls is when "benefits packages" came to be, including employer-based healthcare. The gov't loved the idea so much they made those premiums tax-deductable, but force you to buy insurance out of that system with after-tax dollars. You'll spend the rest of your natural life playing whack-a-mole with side-effects of gov't intervention in the markets. You seem to be under the delusion the only reason we have employer-based insurance is because the gov't doesn't run it as single-payer. Curious: we don't have single-payer, gov't run auto insurance ... home owner's insurance ... renter's insurance ... life insurance ... yet none of those go "POOF! IT'S GONE!" should I change jobs. And prior to FDR, health insurance was the same way. And it wasn't single-payer gov't run healthcare either. Although we're in agreement the employer-based model is a bag full of stupid.