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Easier said than done.
If Martin is gay or has anxiety or whatever and has no support in the locker room he was in a no win position. So now what happens? A ****** like incognito is off the team. Good, right
- Thread starter peplaw06
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Easier said than done.
If Martin is gay or has anxiety or whatever and has no support in the locker room he was in a no win position. So now what happens? A ****** like incognito is off the team. Good, right
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Antrel Rolle blames Martin, too
New York Giants safety Antrel Rolle apparently is among those who blame Jonathan Martin, at least in part, for the incidents that led to the offensive lineman leaving the Miami Dolphins.
Speaking on his weekly WFAN radio appearance in New York on Tuesday, Rolle made it clear that he believed Richie Incognito, who has been suspended indefinitely for conduct detrimental to the team, to be in the wrong for his alleged harassment of Martin.
But Rolle also indicated a belief that Martin could have done more to prevent himself from being bullied.
"Was Richie Incognito wrong? Absolutely," Rolle told the radio station. "But I think the other guy is just as much to blame as Richie, because he allowed it to happen.
"At this level, you're a man. You're not a little boy. You're not a freshman in college. You're a man."
Multiple sources confirmed to ESPN on Monday that Incognito used racial epithets and profane language toward Martin on multiple occasions.
Sources also say Martin received a series of voice mail messages and texts that included derogatory terms referring to the female anatomy and sexual orientation.
The NFL is investigating the situation while Incognito is suspended and Martin takes a leave of absence. But there is some sense in NFL player circles that locker rooms should be self-policed, and Rolle's sentiments echo that.
"I think everything has its limits," Rolle said. "So there's no way that another man is going to make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for.
"So, Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely. But I think the other guy is just as much to blame. Hopefully he's able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and take awareness of, you know, man, you're a grown-ass man. You need to stand up for yourself. Hazing is one thing. Bullying is another."
New York Giants safety Antrel Rolle apparently is among those who blame Jonathan Martin, at least in part, for the incidents that led to the offensive lineman leaving the Miami Dolphins.
Speaking on his weekly WFAN radio appearance in New York on Tuesday, Rolle made it clear that he believed Richie Incognito, who has been suspended indefinitely for conduct detrimental to the team, to be in the wrong for his alleged harassment of Martin.
But Rolle also indicated a belief that Martin could have done more to prevent himself from being bullied.
"Was Richie Incognito wrong? Absolutely," Rolle told the radio station. "But I think the other guy is just as much to blame as Richie, because he allowed it to happen.
"At this level, you're a man. You're not a little boy. You're not a freshman in college. You're a man."
Multiple sources confirmed to ESPN on Monday that Incognito used racial epithets and profane language toward Martin on multiple occasions.
Sources also say Martin received a series of voice mail messages and texts that included derogatory terms referring to the female anatomy and sexual orientation.
The NFL is investigating the situation while Incognito is suspended and Martin takes a leave of absence. But there is some sense in NFL player circles that locker rooms should be self-policed, and Rolle's sentiments echo that.
"I think everything has its limits," Rolle said. "So there's no way that another man is going to make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for.
"So, Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely. But I think the other guy is just as much to blame. Hopefully he's able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and take awareness of, you know, man, you're a grown-ass man. You need to stand up for yourself. Hazing is one thing. Bullying is another."
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I wonder just how crazy Incognito is.
If Incognito really is Charles-Haley-not-taking-meds psycho crazy, well, you'd be pretty stupid to fight him, particularly if he's been threatening your family and likely has a gun. Go John Wayne on a truly deranged sociopath and you are taking a significant risk of getting shot or your family shot.
It could be that Martin is a big baby. Or it could be that he was smart enough not to get himself shot.
I'd need to know how crazy and unstable Incognito is before passing judgment on Martin.
If Incognito really is Charles-Haley-not-taking-meds psycho crazy, well, you'd be pretty stupid to fight him, particularly if he's been threatening your family and likely has a gun. Go John Wayne on a truly deranged sociopath and you are taking a significant risk of getting shot or your family shot.
It could be that Martin is a big baby. Or it could be that he was smart enough not to get himself shot.
I'd need to know how crazy and unstable Incognito is before passing judgment on Martin.
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Report: GM said Martin should fight
FOX Sports
UPDATED NOV 7, 2013 2:31 AM ET
When Jonathan Martin's agent complained to Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland about teammate Richie Incognito's abusive behavior, Ireland said Martin should physically confront Incognito and "punch" him, Pro Football Talk reported Thursday night.
Dolphins coaches knew Incognito was hazing Martin and other young teammates, and allowed it because they believed it would toughen up the players, FOX Sports NFL Insider Mike Garafolo reported this week.
The league is investigating the relationship Incognito had with Martin, who left the team last week because of emotional issues. Incognito was suspended indefinitely by coach Joe Philbin for his treatment of Martin.
"As the representative organization of all players, the NFLPA will insist on a fair investigation for all involved," the union said in a statement Tuesday that included no condemnation of Incognito's conduct.
Instead, the union said accountability rested with the Dolphins.
"We expect that the NFL and its clubs create a safe and professional workplace for all players, and that owners, executives, coaches and players should set the best standards and examples," the union said. "It is the duty of this union to hold the clubs ... accountable for safety and professionalism in the workplace. ... We will continue to remain in contact with the impacted players, their representatives and player leadership."
Philbin said he was unaware of any harassment between the players until after Martin left the team.
"If the (NFL) review shows that this is not a safe atmosphere, I will take whatever measures are necessary to ensure that it is," Philbin said.
After practice Wednesday, several Dolphins questioned why Martin left and supported Incognito.
''I don't know why he's doing this,'' offensive tackle Tyson Clabo said of Martin. ''And the only person who knows why, his name is Jonathan Martin.''
Last week, Martin's agent said the second-year player from Stanford was harassed almost daily by teammates in his rookie year and the hazing continued into this season. Commissioner Roger Goodell appointed a New York lawyer with experience in sports cases to investigate the case.
The controversy attracted more than 100 reporters and cameramen to the Dolphins' complex Wednesday, and when the throng entered the locker room after practice, a player pushed the button on a boom box sitting at Incognito's stall.
Circus music began to play.
Then the Dolphins, clearly weary of the circus atmosphere, opened up. They passionately defended Incognito and insisted they didn't see the blowup coming. Most said Martin and Incognito were friends.
''The whole thing, it's kind of mind-blowing to me,'' quarterback Ryan Tannehill said. ''It's kind of mind-blowing to most of the guys on our team.''
The 24-year-old Martin was briefly hospitalized after he left the team and is now with his family in California. It's unclear whether he'll rejoin the team this season.
Before Martin left the team saying he was bullied, he told multiple people that he was considering quitting football, two people familiar with the situation told The Associated Press on Wednesday.
One of the people said Martin considered giving up the sport because he was mistreated by other offensive linemen. That person said Martin, who sought counseling for emotional issues, now plans to continue playing. Both people spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the organization has said little about Martin's departure.
Tannehill said he was shocked when Martin departed.
''It's tough for me, because you can't help a situation that you didn't know existed — that no one on this team knew existed,'' Tannehill said. ''We have a bunch of good guys in this locker room. To be put in a situation where everyone's attacking the locker room saying it's such a bad place, such a bad culture, no leadership to stand up and stop the situation - no one knew there was a situation to be stopped.''
Several players said Martin and Incognito were close.
''If you had asked Jon Martin a week before who his best friend on the team was, he would have said Richie Incognito,'' Tannehill said. ''The first guy to stand up for Jonathan when anything went down on the field, any kind of tussle, Richie was the first guy there. When they wanted to hang out outside of football, who was together? Richie and Jonathan.''
Guard John Jerry said he never heard Incognito use the racist term included in one voicemail and wouldn't have objected anyway.
''I would have just laughed it off,'' Jerry said. ''I know the type of person he is, and I know he doesn't mean it that way. Everybody's got friends that when you're out, they say those type of things. It's never made a big deal.''
The 30-year-old Incognito was kicked off his team at Nebraska, and has long had a reputation as one of the NFL's dirtiest players. But he has been universally praised by his teammates this week.
''Does he like to give guys a hard time? Yes. Does he like to pester guys and have fun? Yes,'' Tannehill said. ''But he brought a lot of laughter to this locker room, he brought a lot of cohesiveness to this locker room and he was the best teammate that I could ask for.''
For Martin, the final straw was a lunchroom prank at the team complex, and he then left the squad. Tannehill and Jerry said the same prank has been pulled on many other players.
Hijinks are especially common among the offensive linemen, Clabo said.
''We have a system of basically it's just a big joke, basically,'' he said. It helps camaraderie. It keeps things light in the room. Everyone participates. No one is exempt and so I don't see how ... we would all be guilty of bullying.''
Incognito, speaking publicly for the first time since his suspension Sunday, was interviewed briefly this week by a reporter for WSVN-TV.
"I'm just trying to weather the storm right now," Incognito said before getting into his car. "This will pass."
Incognito's harassment of Martin included text messages that were racist and threatening, two people familiar with the situation have said. The 6-foot-5, 312-pound Martin, a second-year pro, is biracial. Incognito, a guard in his ninth NFL season, is white.
The case leaves the 30-year-old Incognito's career in doubt, and an associate professor at the University of Miami School of Law said he could face criminal charges.
"This can be pursued as an extortion case," Tamara Lave said. "It could also be pursued as making some kind of threat against the other player's life. ... This particular cultural moment is one in which people are very upset about bullying and hazing. ... I think that prosecutors may think it's important for them to do something. And the fact that you have a 300-pound man who feels so threatened and uncomfortable that he leaves, that's an indication of how serious it was."
No criminal investigation has been disclosed. Meanwhile, the NFL must decide whether the Dolphins failed to enforce the guidelines for workplace conduct included in the league's player policy manual.
"All NFL players and prospective players have the right to work in a positive environment that is free from any and all forms of harassment, intimidation and discrimination," the manual says. Every player receives a copy during training camp.
FOX Sports
UPDATED NOV 7, 2013 2:31 AM ET
When Jonathan Martin's agent complained to Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland about teammate Richie Incognito's abusive behavior, Ireland said Martin should physically confront Incognito and "punch" him, Pro Football Talk reported Thursday night.
Dolphins coaches knew Incognito was hazing Martin and other young teammates, and allowed it because they believed it would toughen up the players, FOX Sports NFL Insider Mike Garafolo reported this week.
The league is investigating the relationship Incognito had with Martin, who left the team last week because of emotional issues. Incognito was suspended indefinitely by coach Joe Philbin for his treatment of Martin.
"As the representative organization of all players, the NFLPA will insist on a fair investigation for all involved," the union said in a statement Tuesday that included no condemnation of Incognito's conduct.
Instead, the union said accountability rested with the Dolphins.
"We expect that the NFL and its clubs create a safe and professional workplace for all players, and that owners, executives, coaches and players should set the best standards and examples," the union said. "It is the duty of this union to hold the clubs ... accountable for safety and professionalism in the workplace. ... We will continue to remain in contact with the impacted players, their representatives and player leadership."
Philbin said he was unaware of any harassment between the players until after Martin left the team.
"If the (NFL) review shows that this is not a safe atmosphere, I will take whatever measures are necessary to ensure that it is," Philbin said.
After practice Wednesday, several Dolphins questioned why Martin left and supported Incognito.
''I don't know why he's doing this,'' offensive tackle Tyson Clabo said of Martin. ''And the only person who knows why, his name is Jonathan Martin.''
Last week, Martin's agent said the second-year player from Stanford was harassed almost daily by teammates in his rookie year and the hazing continued into this season. Commissioner Roger Goodell appointed a New York lawyer with experience in sports cases to investigate the case.
The controversy attracted more than 100 reporters and cameramen to the Dolphins' complex Wednesday, and when the throng entered the locker room after practice, a player pushed the button on a boom box sitting at Incognito's stall.
Circus music began to play.
Then the Dolphins, clearly weary of the circus atmosphere, opened up. They passionately defended Incognito and insisted they didn't see the blowup coming. Most said Martin and Incognito were friends.
''The whole thing, it's kind of mind-blowing to me,'' quarterback Ryan Tannehill said. ''It's kind of mind-blowing to most of the guys on our team.''
The 24-year-old Martin was briefly hospitalized after he left the team and is now with his family in California. It's unclear whether he'll rejoin the team this season.
Before Martin left the team saying he was bullied, he told multiple people that he was considering quitting football, two people familiar with the situation told The Associated Press on Wednesday.
One of the people said Martin considered giving up the sport because he was mistreated by other offensive linemen. That person said Martin, who sought counseling for emotional issues, now plans to continue playing. Both people spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the organization has said little about Martin's departure.
Tannehill said he was shocked when Martin departed.
''It's tough for me, because you can't help a situation that you didn't know existed — that no one on this team knew existed,'' Tannehill said. ''We have a bunch of good guys in this locker room. To be put in a situation where everyone's attacking the locker room saying it's such a bad place, such a bad culture, no leadership to stand up and stop the situation - no one knew there was a situation to be stopped.''
Several players said Martin and Incognito were close.
''If you had asked Jon Martin a week before who his best friend on the team was, he would have said Richie Incognito,'' Tannehill said. ''The first guy to stand up for Jonathan when anything went down on the field, any kind of tussle, Richie was the first guy there. When they wanted to hang out outside of football, who was together? Richie and Jonathan.''
Guard John Jerry said he never heard Incognito use the racist term included in one voicemail and wouldn't have objected anyway.
''I would have just laughed it off,'' Jerry said. ''I know the type of person he is, and I know he doesn't mean it that way. Everybody's got friends that when you're out, they say those type of things. It's never made a big deal.''
The 30-year-old Incognito was kicked off his team at Nebraska, and has long had a reputation as one of the NFL's dirtiest players. But he has been universally praised by his teammates this week.
''Does he like to give guys a hard time? Yes. Does he like to pester guys and have fun? Yes,'' Tannehill said. ''But he brought a lot of laughter to this locker room, he brought a lot of cohesiveness to this locker room and he was the best teammate that I could ask for.''
For Martin, the final straw was a lunchroom prank at the team complex, and he then left the squad. Tannehill and Jerry said the same prank has been pulled on many other players.
Hijinks are especially common among the offensive linemen, Clabo said.
''We have a system of basically it's just a big joke, basically,'' he said. It helps camaraderie. It keeps things light in the room. Everyone participates. No one is exempt and so I don't see how ... we would all be guilty of bullying.''
Incognito, speaking publicly for the first time since his suspension Sunday, was interviewed briefly this week by a reporter for WSVN-TV.
"I'm just trying to weather the storm right now," Incognito said before getting into his car. "This will pass."
Incognito's harassment of Martin included text messages that were racist and threatening, two people familiar with the situation have said. The 6-foot-5, 312-pound Martin, a second-year pro, is biracial. Incognito, a guard in his ninth NFL season, is white.
The case leaves the 30-year-old Incognito's career in doubt, and an associate professor at the University of Miami School of Law said he could face criminal charges.
"This can be pursued as an extortion case," Tamara Lave said. "It could also be pursued as making some kind of threat against the other player's life. ... This particular cultural moment is one in which people are very upset about bullying and hazing. ... I think that prosecutors may think it's important for them to do something. And the fact that you have a 300-pound man who feels so threatened and uncomfortable that he leaves, that's an indication of how serious it was."
No criminal investigation has been disclosed. Meanwhile, the NFL must decide whether the Dolphins failed to enforce the guidelines for workplace conduct included in the league's player policy manual.
"All NFL players and prospective players have the right to work in a positive environment that is free from any and all forms of harassment, intimidation and discrimination," the manual says. Every player receives a copy during training camp.
Bob Sacamano
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So basically Jonathan Martin is a bitch.
peplaw06
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Former Dolphins lineman Lydon Murtha explains Jonathan Martin events, defends Richie Incognito
By Anwar S. Richardson
The line of Miami Dolphins players willing to stand by embattled guard Richie Incognito is so long, even former Dolphins are now defending his alleged harassment of Jonathan Martin.
Offensive lineman Lydon Murtha was a Dolphin from 2009 until he was released in 2012. Because of his familiarity with both men at the center of the controversy, Murtha wrote an explanatory article on MMQB.SI.com, offering his perception of the events that have been reported and led to Incognito being suspended from the team for allegedly hazing and harassing Martin.
Murtha depicts Martin as a loner who never opened up to players on the team, and one who overreacted to normal occurrences within Miami’s locker room. He said coaches told leaders on the team to bring Martin "out of his shell," and that is when issues started to occur.
“That’s where Incognito ran into a problem,” Murtha wrote for MMQB. “Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.”
Murtha also offered an explanation for the accusations that Martin was forced to pay for a Las Vegas trip that he did not want to attend, and eventually skipped.
“Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip,” Mutha said. “Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.”
In addition, Murtha said Martin overreacted to a cafeteria prank, which involved the lineman down at a table and everyone else getting up and leaving.
“The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.”
Murtha’s opinions are interesting but there is another curious aspect to this story. Martin still has not given his side.
Nearly everybody has voiced their opinion on these alleged incidents, but Martin has not said a word. Murtha said Martin's release of Incognito’s voice mail to the media broke locker room code, and believes it will be hard for any player to trust him again. It is hard to argue against that theory.
However, at some point Martin needs to give his version of the story. If not, Martin's critics will continue to use his silence as proof that he was the real problem, not Incognito.
By Anwar S. Richardson
The line of Miami Dolphins players willing to stand by embattled guard Richie Incognito is so long, even former Dolphins are now defending his alleged harassment of Jonathan Martin.
Offensive lineman Lydon Murtha was a Dolphin from 2009 until he was released in 2012. Because of his familiarity with both men at the center of the controversy, Murtha wrote an explanatory article on MMQB.SI.com, offering his perception of the events that have been reported and led to Incognito being suspended from the team for allegedly hazing and harassing Martin.
Murtha depicts Martin as a loner who never opened up to players on the team, and one who overreacted to normal occurrences within Miami’s locker room. He said coaches told leaders on the team to bring Martin "out of his shell," and that is when issues started to occur.
“That’s where Incognito ran into a problem,” Murtha wrote for MMQB. “Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.”
Murtha also offered an explanation for the accusations that Martin was forced to pay for a Las Vegas trip that he did not want to attend, and eventually skipped.
“Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip,” Mutha said. “Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.”
In addition, Murtha said Martin overreacted to a cafeteria prank, which involved the lineman down at a table and everyone else getting up and leaving.
“The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.”
Murtha’s opinions are interesting but there is another curious aspect to this story. Martin still has not given his side.
Nearly everybody has voiced their opinion on these alleged incidents, but Martin has not said a word. Murtha said Martin's release of Incognito’s voice mail to the media broke locker room code, and believes it will be hard for any player to trust him again. It is hard to argue against that theory.
However, at some point Martin needs to give his version of the story. If not, Martin's critics will continue to use his silence as proof that he was the real problem, not Incognito.
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Wut
JBond
UDFA
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I spilled spaghetti sauce on my tie.
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LAZARUS_LOGAN
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Club soda is delicious.
LAZARUS_LOGAN
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Deeeeee-e-e-e-e Licious!
ThoughtExperiment
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Lol now do Me!
LAZARUS_LOGAN
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They're both bitches: Martin and Incognito.
Everybody is attacking Martin for not "manning up" against Incognito, but yet the most obvious question remains unasked and thus unanswered: what the fuck is a supposedly grown-ass man doing bullying another man? That's high school shit.
Hazing is one thing, bullying is another; although hazing can and often does evolve into bullying.
Bottomline Incognito is a big pussy. Notice he hasn't bullied anyone else, but only the one guy that cannot or will not fight back. And no one else has been reported as bullying Martin, why? Because men don't do that shit.
What would people say if Martin came up and shot the fat bastard? He's in Florida. If there was a case where the Stand Your Ground Law would be warranted, it would be in this scenario.
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You can't be serious. Stand your ground and killing somebody would be warranted in this case? Was Martin's life in danger?
Holy shit.
LAZARUS_LOGAN
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So. Doesn't make it right. And they didn't defend Incognito's use of the racial epithet. And if they truly supported Incognito... how come they didn't also join in on the bullying?
What I find of no surprise is that people on this board support Incognito's BULLYING, but yet got their panties all in a bunch against Roy Williams when he did some harmless HAZING on Dez, by insisting Dez carry his shoulder pads.
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You threaten to slap my mom I take that as grounds for standing my ground.
Not sure Martin would have gotten away with it tho
LAZARUS_LOGAN
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Yes I'm serious. How many times you've heard, seen, and read the story of how a person got bullied and then went and got a gun and came back and shot the person bullying them. Generally that is a rare instance, compared to how often the person being bullied actually ends up committing suicide. Like it's been said: "I'm not going to commit suicide, when I can kill you and ask God for forgiveness".
Sounds to me the Incognito was stalking Martin, so he would be within his right to perceive his life being in danger.