The Obama debates

[superpunk]

Romney and Ryan's plan advocates a 20% tax cut (that means lower, just in case) along with abolishing things like estate taxes, while reducing the corporate tax rate by 10%.

Have you just not read any of their plan or do you really not see how it's about lowering taxes?

 

[VA Cowboy]

There's many factors involved in job creation, and gov't doesn't create jobs in the private sector, it only provides incentives or decentives for jobs to be created. We are void of being able to go back into history and see the results of how tax breaks effect job growth side-by-side with that of tax increases. Therefore one has to rely on theory and common sense. In the economy we have had, there have been tax cuts and job creation has still been stymied. One has to theorize about how the effect of taxes not being cut or even raised would have effected the economy over the same time. Common sense would suggest a poor struggling economy coupled with higher tax rates on job creators would have led to an even worse unemployment situation. Void of being able to see both in action at the same time we are void of definitive proof but still can have reasonable certainty.

 

[superpunk]

There's many factors involved in job creation, and gov't doesn't create jobs in the private sector, it only provides incentives or decentives for jobs to be created. We are void of being able to go back into history and see the results of how tax breaks effect job growth side-by-side with that of tax increases. Therefore one has to rely on theory and common sense. In the economy we have had, there have been tax cuts and job creation has still been stymied. One has to theorize about how the effect of taxes not being cut or even raised would have effected the economy over the same time. Common sense would suggest a poor struggling economy coupled with higher tax rates on job creators would have led to an even worse unemployment situation. Void of being able to see both in action at the same time we are void of definitive proof but still can have reasonable certainty.

Interesting - however "it's common sense" and "I think it might have been even worse if we hadn't" do not qualify as proof. But it looks like you admitted you have none so I'll accept that.

At some point, if your common sense does not line up with reality it's time to change your common sense - because at that point it's stubborn idiocy, not common sense.

Corporate tax rates are lower than ever. Their profits are higher than ever. If we go by the Republican mantra of "lower taxes for job creators leads to more jobs as they reinvest that capital into the marketplace", common sense tells us we should be swimming in jobs right now.

But we're not. Why? Because that's not how it works. And given the state of our budget and deficit, continuing down that path (as the Republicans want to do with even more tax cuts) is nothing more than stubborn idiocy at this point.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Corporate tax rates are lower than ever. Their profits are higher than ever. If we go by the Republican mantra of "lower taxes for job creators leads to more jobs as they reinvest that capital into the marketplace", common sense tells us we should be swimming in jobs right now.

No, it says we have more jobs than if we had higher tax rates.

But we're not. Why? Because that's not how it works. And given the state of our budget and deficit, continuing down that path (as the Republicans want to do with even more tax cuts) is nothing more than stubborn idiocy at this point.

Continuing with the failed plan of the last 4 years would be considered stubborn idiocy at this point. So would wanting to raise taxes in an economy as bad as the one Obama governs.

 

[superpunk]

Romney and Ryan's plan advocates a 20% tax cut (that means lower, just in case) along with abolishing things like estate taxes, while reducing the corporate tax rate by 10%.

Have you just not read any of their plan or do you really not see how it's about lowering taxes?

Um, hello?

It's not about just not raising them they want to lower them/eliminate them. FFS go read their plan you seem to have no idea what's in it.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Median household incomes, for example, have dropped $3,000 — a 5.7% decline — since the Obama recovery started. Income inequality has reached new heights.

There are 659,000 more long-term unemployed than there were in June 2009, and the share of people working has dropped to levels not seen in 30 years, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Meanwhile, there are 11.8 million more people on food stamps and nearly 2.7 million more in poverty than when the Obama recovery started.

And while Obama likes to tout the fact that 4 million net new jobs have been created since February 2010, what he doesn't say is that most of those are low-wage jobs that replaced better-paying jobs lost during the recession.

...
Yet despite the depth of the downturn, Obama has presided over the slowest economic recovery since the Great Depression.

In fact, what has been noteworthy about Obama's recovery is how frequently it has "unexpectedly" underperformed economists' projections.

To get a sense of how dismal Obama's recovery has been, consider this: Since World War II, there have been 10 recoveries before Obama's. Had Obama's merely performed as well the average of all those recoveries, the nation's GDP would be a staggering $1.2 trillion bigger than it is today, and 7.9 million more people would have jobs.


Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/100312-62...s-on-five-claims-all-phony.aspx#ixzz28MVhKhdA

 

[Sheik]

Certainty that taxes won't go up is going to go a long way in encouraging job creators again.

speculation, right or wrong, has a lot to do with the mess we're in. You have a guy that openly admits he wants what's not his, to give to people that aren't entitled to it.

There has to be incentive for job creators.

You guys want assurance that you can trust rich guy to create a job if he's left alone. I can assure you that he WON'T, if he feels its counter-productive.

the whole idea of saying, "fuck it, rather take from rich.", that's just not gunna work.

how many times do you plan on taking from rich guy before he says GFY, I'm out?

 

[superpunk]

Certainty that taxes won't go up is going to go a long way in encouraging job creators again.

Moreso than all-time high profits combined with low wages and a wealth disparity that would make 18th century French aristocrats blush? Because the job creators already have that.

speculation, right or wrong, has a lot to do with the mess we're in. You have a guy that openly admits he wants what's not his, to give to people that aren't entitled to it.

There has to be incentive for job creators.

You guys want assurance that you can trust rich guy to create a job if he's left alone. I can assure you that he WON'T, if he feels its counter-productive.

the whole idea of saying, "fuck it, rather take from rich.", that's just not gunna work.

how many times do you plan on taking from rich guy before he says GFY, I'm out?

What in the sam fuck are you talking about? Taxes go towards alot more than just welfare. This isn't about wealth redistribution it's about paying your share in the country that has made it possible for you to be who and what you are, so that the environment that made a rich person rich is there for other people who want to climb that ladder.

Instead, the Republicans want the wealthy to pay less than what they're paying now (they are already paying at historical lows). This creates less revenue for the government. So how exactly are we going to balance the budget? With reduced spending? What are they going to cut? So far they haven't said, that's post-election material. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. By getting people employed, creating more tax payers? Awesome! But so far this "Cut Taxes on Job Creators" plan hasn't resulted in any more jobs. Why should I believe it will if we cut them even further?

How are we going to fund Romney's 5 trillion dollar tax cut?

 

[VA Cowboy]

Instead, the Republicans want the wealthy to pay less than what they're paying now (they are already paying at historical lows). This creates less revenue for the government. So how exactly are we going to balance the budget? With reduced spending? What are they going to cut? So far they haven't said, that's post-election material. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. By getting people employed, creating more tax payers? Awesome! But so far this "Cut Taxes on Job Creators" plan hasn't resulted in any more jobs. Why should I believe it will if we cut them even further?

How do you know? Try to prove there aren't more jobs now than if taxes hadn't been cut. You can't.

How are we going to fund Romney's 5 trillion dollar tax cut?

It's not a 5 trillion dollar tax cut. Read the plan.

 

[superpunk]

lol you have the audacity to come back with that after I took you out to the woodshed and showed you didn't know wtf was in it.

Try harder yo.

 

[Sheik]

The answer isn't higher taxes, it's adding tax payers.

as the job market continues to shrink, so does the flow in of tax payer dollars.

but yeah, let's compensate, in what's heading for a second collapse, by raising taxes on the people that are already carrying the biggest burden.

 

[VA Cowboy]

lol you have the audacity to come back with that after I took you out to the woodshed and showed you didn't know wtf was in it.

Try harder yo.

Didn't think you'd have a real answer, yo.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Also, sp...still haven't heard your thoughts on raising taxes and how you think that would effect the economy.

 

[UVAwahoos]

That was pretty boring last night. Hopefully for Obama's sake, the next two debates will draw equal ratings and he'll have a chance to recover. That passive strategy failed last night. Romney lied through his teeth over and over again, but he did it eloquently and people are fawning over him today. Honesty never wins in politics.

CAN'T WAIT for Uncle Joe's debate next week. We ALL have a crazy Uncle Joe in the family. It's gonna be awesome.

 

[superpunk]

The answer isn't higher taxes, it's adding tax payers.

as the job market continues to shrink, so does the flow in of tax payer dollars.

but yeah, let's compensate, in what's heading for a second collapse, by raising taxes on the people that are already carrying the biggest burden.

They should pay taxes at the pre-Bush rate. They can afford to. We are in a serious debt crisis, which Republicans LOVE to cry about, but when it comes time to talk about who is going to foot the bill, they have no idea what to do. Well they do, but it's idiotic. Let's bring in less money to pay for our escalating debt. Let's give the wealthiest people in the world (who are already keeping more of their money than ever and NOT reinvesting it in the private sector) even more money.

This is their plan. This is the idiocy you are supporting. No other way to say it.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Ryan vs. Biden should be entertaining. I'm sure the Obama campaign would like to cancel that if they could.

 

[VA Cowboy]

They should pay taxes at the pre-Bush rate. They can afford to. We are in a serious debt crisis, which Republicans LOVE to cry about, but when it comes time to talk about who is going to foot the bill, they have no idea what to do. Well they do, but it's idiotic. Let's bring in less money to pay for our escalating debt. Let's give the wealthiest people in the world (who are already keeping more of their money than ever and NOT reinvesting it in the private sector) even more money.

This is their plan. This is the idiocy you are supporting. No other way to say it.

So raising the level to pre-Bush rates is going to stimulate the economy? Is this really what you are trying to say? Let's take a poor economy and then raise taxes on the job creators? Brilliant.

 

[superpunk]

So raising the level to pre-Bush rates is going to stimulate the economy? Is this really what you are trying to say? Let's take a poor economy and then raise taxes on the job creators? Brilliant.

Letting the Bush cuts expire will do wonders for the deficit/budget. That isn't debatable.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Letting the Bush cuts expire will do wonders for the deficit/budget.

Prove it. And while you're at it, expound on what it will do with the country's job situation.

 

[VA Cowboy]

What would help the deficit is not sending $90 billion to your campaign contributors in failed green energy companies.