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People and societies do not determine or establish morals. They choose to adhere to them or they choose not to. Because a certain segment of a society at a certain time in history burned witches doesnt mean it was morally right at that time.
If people and societies did not determine or establish morals, then what are laws?

Once again you are missing the point. People and societies dont determine morals. They choose to adhere or not adhere to them. Morals arent changing. Morals arent subjective. Morals are absolutes.
I'm not missing anything. I read it the first time. Repeating yourself over and over doesn't make you right.

The morals of a society are reflected by the passing of laws. And laws change all the time. Alcohol used to be prohibited... that changed. Marijuana is currently prohibited (mostly)... it used to be legal to use, now it's not... and in the future that may change.

None of this happens if morals are absolute.
 
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NoMoRedJ

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If people and societies did not determine or establish morals, then what are laws?

I'm not missing anything. I read it the first time. Repeating yourself over and over doesn't make you right.

The morals of a society are reflected by the passing of laws. And laws change all the time. Alcohol used to be prohibited... that changed. Marijuana is currently prohibited (mostly)... it used to be legal to use, now it's not... and in the future that may change.

None of this happens if morals are absolute.

Laws are not morals. So because they may change over time doesnt mean that morals are changeable or subjective. Laws can be based on morals, but are NOT morals.

And yes you are missing it entirely. You apparently do not know what morals are. You are confusing an application of morals or lack of application for morals.
 
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Laws are not morals. So because they may change over time doesnt mean that morals are changeable or subjective. Laws can be based on morals, but are NOT morals.
I never said ALL morals are laws. But laws are sets of morals that are established by people and societies when they are generally accepted by those people. Both morals and laws are ever-changing over time, and there not an absolute standard across the different societies around the world.

You are confusing an application of morals or lack of application for morals.
This makes no sense.
 

Scot

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Unless something changes a lot I doubt he is going to win in California. Too many retards.

He's probably spending his money in mostly the contested battle ground states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, N Carolina, Wisconsin, Michigan etc etc

He collected over 80 million for July alone.

There is zero chance in hell that Trump takes CA. There are way too many Libtards here for that to ever happen. Easily 100-1.

And that is why I will be moving to Texas as soon as it's financially feasible
 

Doomsday

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But laws are sets of morals that are established by people and societies when they are generally accepted by those people. Both morals and laws are ever-changing over time, and there not an absolute standard across the different societies around the world.
To me morals are personal standards and laws are universal standards within the society that has those laws. The two aren't 100 percent interchangeable or 100 percent matching. This might be the confusion your opponents in this thread, have. They want their laws to match their morals 100 percent, and that's just not the way it works.
 

Doomsday

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And that is why I will be moving to Texas as soon as it's financially feasible
Texas will soon be blue, and it probably happens in this cycle. Because of Trump. Not only is he polling terribly here, we mostly recognize him for what he is - a boorish, big government New York liberal.
 

Hoofbite

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That doesn’t bolster your point at all. Burning people at the stake was never right at any point in history. The fact that it occurred historically doesn’t suddenly fit it into a moral hand basket.

Shoving Jews in ovens occurred en masse at some point in history and no one alive - probably not even the people doing it - thought it could be morally justified by it’s time and place. We can’t have everyone in diapers; people that do wrong generally know they’re doing wrong.

Moral justification isn't necessary in the absence of immorality. Burning witches was not considered immoral for a period of time in history. Accusations of witchcraft resulted in court-ordered death. That does not happen today. Something has obviously changed. Aside from knowing that witchcraft is bullshit, we've also somehow arrived at a point where we now say that killing someone based solely on an accusation is wrong.

It's entirely disingenuous to suggest that the perspective of what is moral and immoral today is the same perspective that people had a couple hundred years ago or a couple thousand year ago. Time in history and culture dominate moral appraisals, most commonly in the form of what is considered immoral.
 
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I am all but convinced that HRC is going to win the election simply by virtue of corruption. The election will be rigged just as the DNC Primaries was.

And the big money, big media is all in on it.
 

dbair1967

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I am all but convinced that HRC is going to win the election simply by virtue of corruption. The election will be rigged just as the DNC Primaries was.

And the big money, big media is all in on it.

Hoof doesn't believe that's possible
 

VTA

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Moral justification isn't necessary in the absence of immorality. Burning witches was not considered immoral for a period of time in history. Accusations of witchcraft resulted in court-ordered death. That does not happen today. Something has obviously changed. Aside from knowing that witchcraft is bullshit, we've also somehow arrived at a point where we now say that killing someone based solely on an accusation is wrong.

It's entirely disingenuous to suggest that the perspective of what is moral and immoral today is the same perspective that people had a couple hundred years ago or a couple thousand year ago. Time in history and culture dominate moral appraisals, most commonly in the form of what is considered immoral.

Your argument is kind of self defeating. If morals were subject to periodical contexts we couldn't even say that these actions are wrong. I'm fairly sure you're using this witch burning example for that very reason: it's abominable and you know the contrast is startling.

Are you willing to say the you would be agreeably involved in such a thing because it was the local flavor? You wouldn't recognize right from wrong? Would you be wearing a white hood and burning crosses 100 years ago?

And in reality, in the family of man, very little has changed. Only the players. Homosexuals are tossed of off roofs, farmers are robbed and starved out; genocide still occurs presently and look. it's today, in our historical moment of enlightenment. And they're all morally reprehensible, no matter what excuse the actors cite.

Morals are absolute. We know this. We're just creative enough to distort the lens in order to find justification for our immorality.
 

Scot

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Texas will soon be blue, and it probably happens in this cycle. Because of Trump. Not only is he polling terribly here, we mostly recognize him for what he is - a boorish, big government New York liberal.

I'll believe that when I see it

If Texas is willing to vote in Hillary than this entire country is already lost
 

Doomsday

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I'll believe that when I see it

If Texas is willing to vote in Hillary than this entire country is already lost

When most of Texas stays home and the liberal enclaves of Houston, Austin, San Antonio and the Metroplex all vote Hillary, you have Texas as blue, albiet in a astroturf kind of way.
 

Scot

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The one good thing about the Libtards here in CA is that they are lazy and stay home come voting time

Except for the first Obama election. The novelty was enough to get them out of the methshack and to the polls
 
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I am all but convinced that HRC is going to win the election simply by virtue of corruption. The election will be rigged just as the DNC Primaries was.

And the big money, big media is all in on it.

Trump is an awful candidate. Romney wasn't perfect, but he was/is light years better than Trump. Is there much doubt that if Romney were running as the Republican nominee today that Romney would beat Hillary?

Polls now show Trump losing among college educated whites.

The Republicans are about to fumble away a very winnable election because they selected a bad candidate who says stupid things.

A mannequin could have beaten Hillary.
 

Scot

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Now he is saying that he will refuse to attend the debates "if" he's not satisfied with the moderators
 

Sheik

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Now he is saying that he will refuse to attend the debates "if" he's not satisfied with the moderators

I would too.

Candy Crowley or whatever that fat hogs name is, or was if she hasn't died of fat, changed the whole ball game when she sided with Obama in that second debate.

I would demand one known conservative moderator for every liberal they throw out there. Don't do it by networks, do them at a neutral site and have all the networks cover them, but don't give debates to individual networks.
 

bbgun

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Now he is saying that he will refuse to attend the debates "if" he's not satisfied with the moderators

Commission: "Then we'll let you pick the moderators."

Trump: "That's nice of you, but I think I'm coming down with a scratchy throat."
 

NoMoRedJ

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I would too.

Candy Crowley or whatever that fat hogs name is, or was if she hasn't died of fat, changed the whole ball game when she sided with Obama in that second debate.

I would demand one known conservative moderator for every liberal they throw out there. Don't do it by networks, do them at a neutral site and have all the networks cover them, but don't give debates to individual networks.

Exactly. Dont let them determine the rules and outcome.
 
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