bbgun

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i don't think it's a stretch to admit that most of yesteryears players could not compete with today's top guys.

Yeah, I'm not talking about plucking a 240 lb offensive lineman from 1960 and watching him get steamrolled by today's players. I'm saying that if Unitas or Staubach had been born the same year as Romo, their greatness would still be intact and their stats would put the old ones to shame. Conversely, had Romo been born the same year as Roger, he'd a been a footnote in NFL history.
 
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doubtful - romo has had to rise as cream through a much larger, better trained and more talented crop. logically, you can surmise that his skills would far surpass a guy like Roger, who waded through a much smaller pool. nothing against roger, the eras just aren't even comparable in terms of what it takes to be a top guy.
 

bbgun

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Romo had to beat out a failed baseball player (Henson), a druggie (Carter), an aging Testaverde and an immobile, pick-happy fossil (Bledsoe). Would a team in the 1960s/70s have been as patient with him? Craig Morton, in his prime and coming off a Super Bowl, presented a much stiffer test for Staubach.
 
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right those were the only people in the world who would have liked to be dallas cowboys qb
 

Doomsday

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Payton Manning and his brother Eli would be the first to tell you they wouldn't have been able to hang in their dad's era.

I've found it's complete lack of knowledge of how it really was back then that makes people think a Romo could have survived even a half season in Troy's actual cleats, or even a week in Roger's or Dandy Don's.
right those were the only people in the world who would have liked to be dallas cowboys qb
One of the most prestigious jobs in sports.
 
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i've found it's being grumpy old back in my day old men that deludes people into thinking that the heroes they looked up to as children would have a prayer of surviving in todays more talented, competitive NFL.
 

Doomsday

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i've found it's being grumpy old back in my day old men that deludes people into thinking that the heroes they looked up to as children would have a prayer of surviving in todays more talented, competitive NFL.
Knowledge, s0n. We know the tough QBs of the past would eat alive the defenses of today, playing under these rules and with these offenses. You actually think Troy Aikman with his arm and his accuracy wouldn't be shredding them?

Oh wait. You don't actually think.
 
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yes please explain the correlation between toughness and passing accuracy

i'm sure every qb from back in the day was a mix of john wayne and rocky

meanwhile romo is winning games with broken ribs and punctured lungs and playing the position better than anyone ever has for this team

please tell me another story grandpa
 

Doomsday

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yes please explain the correlation between toughness and passing accuracy
Someone said there was one? No. But you don't see receivers having to stop for passes or adjust nearly as much back in the day, as they do today.

Research Meredith's injuries he played with. Oh that's right, if it didn't happen prior to 2008 it ain't Dallas.
 

Doomsday

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please just keep making shit up
You actually think Troy Aikman with his arm and his accuracy wouldn't be shredding them? Staubach? Meredith? Hell, even Danny White?

You're delusional.
 

Statman

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I just demonstrated statistically that the rule changes are precisely why the passer ratings have improved, I can't spell it out any simpler. There is no debate.

When there was no such thing as "in the grasp", when the whistle would only blow when the quarterback was at a 180 degree angle while contiguous with the field, they had a completely different mind frame that was somewhat influenced by survival instincts.

Imagine you are being chased by Ndamukong Suh while realizing that if he gets his hands on you the referees are going to do absolutely nothing until he has forced you to the ground. The officials are like a witness to an assault that does nothing to help, just stands there and watches. Yeah, the QB's want to get rid of the ball, and yeah, it would be really cool if someone on their team catches it. But, then again, there are other plays. That is, if you can brace for what is about to happen.

In the 9 year period from 1970 to 1978 There were 26.4% more INT's thrown than TD's. Then in 1979, lo and behold, the number dwindles down to only 3.4% and ,up to 1988, it's about dead even. Then, from 1989 to 1994 it steadily climbs, in the positive TD to INT range to as high as 10%. In 1995, it skyrockets and has consistently shown 20% to 40% more TD's than INT's.

What happened? That's easy, follow the rules timeline. "In the grasp" rules start in 1979.

Then, in 1988, a big one. The clock is increased from 30 seconds to 45, the offense can go over multiple options, contingencies, and assignments. The plays are better organized, there is less possibility of mistakes and miscommunication.


Half of today's QB's would melt under a 30 second clock.

The umbilical cord is further lengthened in 1994 when microphones are inserted into the QB's helmets. The coach is in their head right up to the snap.

For the rest of the 90's you add no head to head, stricter 5 yard contact, jeez, if a defender even flinches...."Boo!"....the referee throws two flags, one for a penalty, one to dry the QB's eyes.

I don't care how scientifically the QB's body is maintained or how sophisticated the football programs are. If you eliminate these rules and bring back defensive linemen with the knowledge that they are allowed to contact the quarterback with the full force of their body at that speed, they are like lions that just detected a hobbling baby wildabeast. And, if they reach him, all that carefully prepared QB knowledge just got deleted, for at least a few plays.

From that point, QB's aren't concentrating on reading the DB's first, they are concentrating on self preservation, then making a play. Passer rating become less spectacular. Still, there are some real warriors that consistently made plays and led their teams to victory.
 
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doubtful - romo has had to rise as cream through a much larger, better trained and more talented crop. logically, you can surmise that his skills would far surpass a guy like Roger, who waded through a much smaller pool. nothing against roger, the eras just aren't even comparable in terms of what it takes to be a top guy.

Romo would have taken both more hits and more devastating hits back in the day. Romo wouldn't be playing at his current age back then, if only because the 70's era back surgeries wouldn't have allowed him to bounce back. He'd likely have been good, though, when healthy.

The other huge thing to keep in mind about the pre-parity NFL, you had to be on a decent team to have a chance. If you were on a bad team, it was like a death sentence. Teams didn't rise and fall so quickly back then.

Yeah, I'm not talking about plucking a 240 lb offensive lineman from 1960 and watching him get steamrolled by today's players. I'm saying that if Unitas or Staubach had been born the same year as Romo, their greatness would still be intact and their stats would put the old ones to shame. Conversely, had Romo been born the same year as Roger, he'd a been a footnote in NFL history.

If Romo stayed healthy and was on a solid team, he'd have been good. Put him in Bob Griese's situation and who's to say Romo doesn't win a few Super Bowls?

But it also isn't difficult to imagine Romo as Brian Sipe.

We know the tough QBs of the past would eat alive the defenses of today, playing under these rules and with these offenses. You actually think Troy Aikman with his arm and his accuracy wouldn't be shredding them?

I agree that there is every reason to believe that Troy Aikman would have been at least as good as Aaron Rodgers. Aikman's skill set was perfect suited to today's game. He'd be absolutely lethal.

I'm not as sure about Staubach. He's my all time favorite Cowboys player, but he didn't show the consistently uncanny accuracy that Aikman did ... and it is uncanny accuracy that makes QBs excellent today. Staubach had all of the intangibles and he played in an era when that stuff seriously mattered (leadership, creativity, intuition, etc.). Much of Staubach's greatness was due to his ability to control games. The NFL is much more of a coach's league now. Coaches have much more control ... and that diminishes the importance of Staubach's traits in today's game.
 

Doomsday

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I'm not as sure about Staubach. He's my all time favorite Cowboys player, but he didn't show the consistently uncanny accuracy that Aikman did ... and it is uncanny accuracy that makes QBs excellent today. Staubach had all of the intangibles and he played in an era when that stuff seriously mattered (leadership, creativity, intuition, etc.). Much of Staubach's greatness was due to his ability to control games. The NFL is much more of a coach's league now. Coaches have much more control ... and that diminishes the importance of Staubach's traits in today's game.
Staubach was a "scrambler" because he had to be. Give him even, Aikman's OL, give him Irvin, Harper, Emmitt.... Think about his deadly accuracy he did have, when he could actually get off a pass. Those Cowboy offenses of the 70s weren't really very good even by 90s standards, much less today's.
The other huge thing to keep in mind about the pre-parity NFL, you had to be on a decent team to have a chance. If you were on a bad team, it was like a death sentence. Teams didn't rise and fall so quickly back then.
Archie Manning. Great QB, always fun to watch. Tough SOB. But never had a chance on those horrid Saints teams.
 

bbgun

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If Romo stayed healthy and was on a solid team, he'd have been good.

But not 21st century good. He would have been playing in an era when you could clothesline QB's, and the passing game was de-emphasized (WRs in the three point stance).

Put him in Bob Griese's situation and who's to say Romo doesn't win a few Super Bowls?

Oh sure, but Weeden could have won that 1972 SB vs Washington just by handing off and throwing high percentage passes. Griese was 8 for 11 for 88 yards in that game (1 INT and 1 TD).

But it also isn't difficult to imagine Romo as Brian Sipe.

That's who I first compared him to when he took over from Bledsoe. It's clear that he left Sipe far behind.
 

Statman

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Prior to the snap, Romi tries to set up his blocking as best he can right up to the last second. Quite often he just manages to get the play off.

Now give him a 30 second clock instead of 45. That gives him just enough time to get to the line, scan the defense for a split second, and do the snap count. He doesn't have enough time to counter a suspicious or confusing formation.

Defenders can make contact with the receivers right up until the ball is thrown. Most of the time, there was very little or no seperation.

The best quarterbacks typically missed a round 25% to 30% of the games. Roger, the "dodger" misses the 1972 regular season, missed several games leading to the contributions of Longley, Danny White, and others. Staubach was the leading paaaer in his last season before retiring. So why did he retire? Concussions.

Don't know how Romi could have fared better.
 

SixisBetter

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Griese was 8 for 11 for 88 yards in that game (1 INT and 1 TD).

I'm not sure this really means anything about the difference in eras or is more about the difference in team philosophies,
but it was fun and interesting to look up.

Griese's playoff stats for the Dolphins 3 straight Super Bowl appearances.

67 comp 113 att 979 yds 5 TDS

Brady last year's playoffs

93 comp 135 att 921 yds 10 TDS
 
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