Thanks, Obama

[ScipioCowboy]

um recently things like right to work laws, etc

Recently? Right-to-work laws were authorized in 1947 -- three years before Reuther Treaty of Detroit, a full seven years before unions reached their membership apex in 1954, and a good 34 years before 1980 or anything that's happened over the past 30 years. For all intents and purposes, right-to-work laws protected employees against being forced to sign contracts that would make them join unions. It had very little impact on the political power of unions.

 

[Dodger12]

Yes, inflation has outpaced the shit out of wage growth. People used to be able to be a janitor all their life, and if they were a good hard worker and responsible, chances are these people could own a home, car, raise a family, and not need a dime of government assistance.

I agree with this 100%. What caused it is the real question. Most true conservatives think it's the government which is why I think they harp on "less" government. Liberals regulate everything, from our health insurance, to where we can smoke, to the size of soft drink I can buy. Throw in the fact that Obama supported an increase in gas prices thinking that we'd use less or support an alternative (greener) energy was part of his agenda. Now add to that an increases in taxes which further cuts into people's disposable income. So please don't ask why inflation has outpaced wages.

 

[superpunk]

So please don't ask why inflation has outpaced wages.

Why not?

Corporate profits are through the roof (you know obviously then that means their profits are far outpacing inflation and rising costs of conducting business). Wages still blow. Yeah there are a litany of reasons why, but that's not really important is it? What matters is getting bargaining power back for the worker. And it's frustrating seeing half the country basically say "no, please master....fuck us in the ass, just keep 'creating jobs' and keep all the extra money for yourself".

 

[JBond]

I agree with this 100%. What caused it is the real question. Most true conservatives think it's the government which is why I think they harp on "less" government. Liberals regulate everything, from our health insurance, to where we can smoke, to the size of soft drink I can buy. Throw in the fact that Obama supported an increase in gas prices thinking that we'd use less or support an alternative (greener) energy was part of his agenda. Now add to that an increases in taxes which further cuts into people's disposable income. So please don't ask why inflation has outpaced wages.

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

 

[Dodger12]

Punk, you've got a thing for corporations. I've got news for you, corporations have always made big money. That's nothing new. I don't begrudge them nor anyone else whose innovation has led them to wealth. That's capitalism. But I firmly believe the government had a hand in the increase in fuel prices and taxes (obviously) which directly impacts what we have to spend and goes directly to the point you were making.

 

[superpunk]

It's a struggle homeboy. They are always going to act in their own interests, I don't begrudge them that. We have to be able to fight back and take a bigger piece of the pie for ourselves though. And today's political climate makes that nearly impossible. What makes it even worse is seeing (largely "conservatives") continue to vote for people who clearly claim that they want to make it even more difficult by giving these entities even more leverage.

It's not a "privilege" to work for someone. People need to stop pretending like it is, and that these "job creators" should be coddled and given whatever they desire. It's their job to make as much money as possible. It's our job to make sure we're treated fairly and have suitable living conditions, and I think it would be super nice if we could get back to a place where dad can go work a 9 to 5 and come home to the white picket fence and mom and kids without being absolutely riddled with debt and living hand to mouth on a barely livable wage. If we keep electing people who clearly state that their aim is to protect these entities from having to surrender any more of their pie, how will anything ever change? That's my frustration with corporations, and the narrative of the republican party.

 

[Dodger12]

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

There's not a thing the government has had it's hand in that hasn't failed or isn't currently failing. The only thing that I can think of is the government's repose to the Dust Bowl crisis in the 1930's. There may be more but I can't think of it off the top of my head.....

 

[peplaw06]

Both parties pander to corporations... just depends on what the corporation stands for and who their political donations go to.

If it was such a problem for Democrats, why haven't they fixed it?

 

[VTA]

Anyone spouting corporate hate is full of crap. The cable company you tithe monthly to is a corporation. So is the company that provides your cell service as well as the manufacturer of the over priced plastic piece of crap phone itself. So is the manufacturer of the car you bought, the clothes you wear and everything else in between.

If you hate corporations, scale it back and make them feel it in ithe wallet. Thinking Mr. Gub'ment Man is going to rescue anyone from that gluttonous materialism is an exercise in futility. The only corporations that will hurt through Government interventions are the one's who didn't pay the prostitute in the White House.

It's a fantasy to think there's going to be some grand equalizer working from an altruistic perspective and it's a form of misplaced responsibility.

 

[VTA]

Both parties pander to corporations... just depends on what the corporation stands for and who their political donations go to.

If it was such a problem for Democrats, why haven't they fixed it?

[whisper]psssst! It was Reagan![/whisper]

 

[superpunk]

Generally progress goes

"Party pays lip service to an ideal. If ideal is popular, party will eventually attempt to implement it"

The issue is who we are voting for. And to some extent it is on both sides. But right now the people who are paying lip service to busting up the power of corporations and big banks and in turn doing things to improve quality of life for the general populace are nearly all democratic. As that continues to gain traction more democrats will pander to it and eventually act on it as we're seeing now (at least attempting). You can't fix shit that has taken decades to build in a day. In the battle between the big and little guy, we've been losing for decades, and things were pretty decent still so we didn't really notice we were losing. Now we do, but reforming that sort of entrenchment is going to take time and an educated electorate.

 

[superpunk]

Anyone spouting corporate hate is full of crap. The cable company you tithe monthly to is a corporation. So is the company that provides your cell service as well as the manufacturer of the over priced plastic piece of crap phone itself. So is the manufacturer of the car you bought, the clothes you wear and everything else in between.

If you hate corporations, scale it back and make them feel it in ithe wallet. Thinking Mr. Gub'ment Man is going to rescue anyone from that gluttonous materialism is an exercise in futility. The only corporations that will hurt through Government interventions are the one's who didn't pay the prostitute in the White House.

It's a fantasy to think there's going to be some grand equalizer working from an altruistic perspective and it's a form of misplaced responsibility.

Your political opinions are a fucking joke.

Back at the turn of the century, California was rocked with rolling blackouts due to artificially created shortages by the energy companies. They were able to accomplish this via deregulation that took place in the mid 90s, which led to HUGE profits for companies like Enron.

If we followed your asinine model, everyone could have just "gone without electricity" for a few years until the free market adjusted the price. That's not the way the world works.

What was needed? Government regulation, to protect the citizens.

 

[Dodger12]

what are you...a communist? You talk about "struggle" and fighting back......Lets face it, some jobs just have a prevailing wage and any attempt to make that wage higher only impacts the consumer. That wage is based on the degree of expertise, education, experience, etc. to accomplish that job. You can't possibly pay someone $50.00 an hour plus benefits to work labor on the assembly line at GM. Union be damned, that is just simply unsustainable.

 

[superpunk]

Who's talking 50 an hour come on I'm being reasonable here knock it off with the hyperbole.

 

[VTA]

Your political opinions are a fucking joke.

Back at the turn of the century, California was rocked with rolling blackouts due to artificially created shortages by the energy companies. They were able to accomplish this via deregulation that took place in the mid 90s, which led to HUGE profits for companies like Enron.

If we followed your asinine model, everyone could have just "gone without electricity" for a few years until the free market adjusted the price. That's not the way the world works.

What was needed? Government regulation, to protect the citizens.

Yeah I know. Anybody taking responsibility to this generation of do nothings is nothing more than punch line.

Phony altruists not inclined to get off their asses. Hey no problem let Gub'ment do it. Want want want every new toy, but want to vilify the company that makes your toy? No problemo. Call on Gub'ment.

I mean it's not like they're chronic liars, tax dodgers and theifs, no no no. Leave it them while you jerk-off and play with your toys.

I'm guessing the idea that wealth isn't an endless resource impervious to the consequences of bad policies is entirely lost on you? I mean it's only paper, now that we've abandoned following a tangbile standard. We can just print more...

 

[superpunk]

There's plenty of wealth being created.

The difference is where it's all going.

 

[Dodger12]

Who's talking 50 an hour come on I'm being reasonable here knock it off with the hyperbole.

I used an example that's probably not too far off the mark, although some reporting has indicated that auto workers made much more. I'm not dissing the auto industry, although I think they imploded because of their own greed, but I think they're a perfect example to point out the flaws in your reasoning.

 

[superpunk]

I don't disagree with you that was unsustainable. But there was greed on all sides - it wasn't the union's greed alone that did them in. There was plenty of waste and over-spending everywhere. But the narrative that came out has almost entirely blamed who? The worker. For taking as much as they possibly could.

Funny how when the "job creators" do that, it's just viewed as good capitalism. When the workers try it, it's commmunism.

 

[superpunk]

I don't disagree with you that was unsustainable. But there was greed on all sides - it wasn't the union's greed alone that did them in. There was plenty of waste and over-spending everywhere. But the narrative that came out has almost entirely blamed who? The worker. For taking as much as they possibly could.

Funny how when the "job creators" do that, it's just viewed as good capitalism. When the workers try it, it's commmunism.

So let me ask you this, dodger...

we regulate energy prices. We regulate all sorts of things and it is a GOOD thing for citizens in general. We can't have huge companies charging whatever they want for necessities, because they don't care about whether or not Joe Fucker in Indiana can afford to feed his family and keep his landscaping business going. They care about posting a quarterly profit.

We have oild companies posting 3 billion dollar profits IN EACH QUARTER. These companies aren't altruistically setting price points to help the populace while still turning a decent profit - they are bending the populace over, ass-raping them, and then not giving a goddam thing back by taking advantage of accounting loopholes. They also aren't subject to normal supply and demand principles, because they are ENORMOUS and there are so few of them. Rather the entire system works together so they all offer the same good at about the same price, and maximize their profits.

What would be your issue with regulating their prices? From my perspective it would slow inflation, bring down the costs of goods, and fuck we could work with them so that they're still turning a profit of several hundred million dollars every quarter. All we say is - you aren't going to rape us so that your quarterly earnings impress your investors, and you're going to pay your fair share in taxes.

Explain the downside of something like that to me. We already do it with other industries.

 

[VTA]

You're mixing and matching your arguments. On one hand you talk about workers rights, yet when challenged run around and pretend it's about regulation for customer protection.

Regulation always has a place, but you're not simply talking utilities and customer protection you're talking about forcing non-necessity corporations to comply with pay grade standards when that can be handled with out the socialist model of giving every thing over to government.