Rob Ryan's Scheme

[ThreeSportStar80]

I say sign a big NT and move Ratliff to end or sign a good end and keep Ratliff where he is. Either or, but we need to do something. Our pass rush is shit.

I mean it's so obvious yet they fail to make the change EVERY year. Ratliff could still line up at DT on pass rushing downs!

 

[kristie]

Scandrick has a lot of nerve.

definitely. he has no right to talk because he sucks just as badly as the rest of the fucking secondary does.

 

[dbair1967]

Anyone think the Ryan's scheme doesn't amount to a hill of beans... Can you say overrated in some aspects.

I'm sick of seeing this team struggle on defense, it's ridiculous!

Pretty disappointing, especially since the defense basically got worse as the year wore on and not better. They also blew too many 4th qtr leads all year.

That said, we need 3 or 4 more players on defense.

Ultimately I dont care one way or another if he stays or goes. Personally I'd rather see Mike Nolan, Todd Grantham or even Todd Bowles instead of Ryan, but if he's back hopefully it'll be with some added talent.

 

[dbair1967]

I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan get another year but pawns like campo have to go.

The players don't respect him.

I think Campo has done an awful job here, especially the past two seasons. That said the bolded comment is lame because I've never seen anyone say they dont respect the guy.

 

[dbair1967]

Buddy Ryan could bring his 46 over here and coach it, and we'd still suck on D. Our players are crap.

Eventually some of you will get it, that just because the guy shares his dads name doesnt mean he is the same type of coach.

Rob is definitely the least gifted of the Ryan's when it coems to coaching a defense.

 

[superpunk]

We said before the season ryan was getting more talent than he's ever had to work with. And that may be true for the stars. Our good players are having career years.

wade has houston ballin.

It's just time to face the fact that noone can polish these turds. Ryan is fine, let's overhaul this thing and give him another shot.

 

[cmd34]

We said before the season ryan was getting more talent than he's ever had to work with. And that may be true for the stars. Our good players are having career years.

wade has houston ballin.

It's just time to face the fact that noone can polish these turds. Ryan is fine, let's overhaul this thing and give him another shot.

At minimum we will be getting 3 new starters (ILB, CB, S) next year. It would be nice if we also a pass-rushing compliment for Ware at B and any kind of presence at DE.

Ware, Ratliff, Lee, Jenkins, and unfortunately Sensabaugh, are all a lock to return at starters next year.

 

[dbair1967]

At minimum we will be getting 3 new starters (ILB, CB, S) next year. It would be nice if we also a pass-rushing compliment for Ware at B and any kind of presence at DE.

Ware, Ratliff, Lee, Jenkins, and unfortunately Sensabaugh, are all a lock to return at starters next year.

I wouldnt say its a lock that Sensabaugh starts, his contract isnt so much that it dictates he starts and plays extensively.

 

[cmd34]

I wouldnt say its a lock that Sensabaugh starts, his contract isnt so much that it dictates he starts and plays extensively.

Once again, you don't give 5-year extensions, no matter how cap-friendly, to projected back-up's.

 

[superpunk]

definitely. he has no right to talk because he sucks just as badly as the rest of the fucking secondary does.

I love it when you talk dirty. You can't even believe what I'm doing with my belly button and this pile of Frito's right now.

 

[dbair1967]

Once again, you don't give 5-year extensions, no matter how cap-friendly, to projected back-up's.

I didnt say he was a likely backup, just that it isnt an iron clad lock that he'd start simply because of the contract.

Most likely he does start, at least initially.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Pretty disappointing, especially since the defense basically got worse as the year wore on and not better. They also blew too many 4th qtr leads all year.

That said, we need 3 or 4 more players on defense.

Ultimately I dont care one way or another if he stays or goes. Personally I'd rather see Mike Nolan, Todd Grantham or even Todd Bowles instead of Ryan, but if he's back hopefully it'll be with some added talent.

Either one of those two would be perfect... I'm sick of the circus act, just give me someone who can create a nasty defense.

 

[Hoofbite]

Either one of those two would be perfect... I'm sick of the circus act, just give me someone who can create a nasty defense.

It's not going to matter with these players.

Just look at the list of DC's that have been around.

Zimmer
Wade
Ryan

Zimmer is probably the least well regarded in terms of his ability to coach a defense but he's gotten solid production from Cincy's cast.

Wade took the Houston defense to some good stats and even though I think a good portion of that is due to the weakest possible offensive opposition any team could play, he deserves credit.

They have literally played like 7 games against bottom 6-7 offensive teams. Inside their division they have 3 of them. Indy, JAX and TENN. All offensively poor teams and at one time they were like 3 of the bottom 5 teams. Throw in Cleveland and they've played a who's who of who cannot score.

Ryan OTOH has had to face the Eagles twice, Giants twice (will have) and Patriots. That's 5 games against top 10 offenses.

You look at scoring and here's some of the teams that Ryan has face.

Philly (8th) x 2
Giants (7th) x 2
Patriots (3rd)
Lions (4th)
Jets (9th)

That's nearly one half of the schedule against teams that are in the Top 10 in scoring.

This team needs players on defense. Has to have them. It's not going to matter who the DC is if they don't get players.

2 highly regarded DCs and one well respected DC and the results haven't been phenomenal, what else is there?

 

[dbair1967]

It's not going to matter with these players.

Just look at the list of DC's that have been around.

Zimmer
Wade
Ryan

Zimmer is probably the least well regarded in terms of his ability to coach a defense but he's gotten solid production from Cincy's cast.

Wade took the Houston defense to some good stats and even though I think a good portion of that is due to the weakest possible offensive opposition any team could play, he deserves credit.

They have literally played like 7 games against bottom 6-7 offensive teams. Inside their division they have 3 of them. Indy, JAX and TENN. All offensively poor teams and at one time they were like 3 of the bottom 5 teams. Throw in Cleveland and they've played a who's who of who cannot score.

Ryan OTOH has had to face the Eagles twice, Giants twice (will have) and Patriots. That's 5 games against top 10 offenses.

You look at scoring and here's some of the teams that Ryan has face.

Philly (8th) x 2
Giants (7th) x 2
Patriots (3rd)
Lions (4th)
Jets (9th)

That's nearly one half of the schedule against teams that are in the Top 10 in scoring.

This team needs players on defense. Has to have them. It's not going to matter who the DC is if they don't get players.

2 highly regarded DCs and one well respected DC and the results haven't been phenomenal, what else is there?

Considering its not the same players, your point doesnt really hold water. Sure there are a few holdovers but there are also alot of new guys out there. The only 3 that have started under all our recent coaches are Ware, James and Newman. Spears isnt a starter any longer and Ratliff wasnt a starter when he first arrived.

There's enough good players here that the results should probably be better than what we've seen this year, although as I have said if Ryan gets another year I dont mind because I know there's going to be a significant number of changes defensively in terms of personnel next year, and if the results arnt better then he'll have fired himself. Hopefully with a full offseason of OTA's, mini camps and a real training camp, combined with a good crop of free agents and the draft can upgrade our defense enough to where we can challenge next yr.

 

[superpunk]

We replace shitty players with shitty players who are also stupid.

 

[Hoofbite]

Considering its not the same players, your point doesnt really hold water. Sure there are a few holdovers but there are also alot of new guys out there. The only 3 that have started under all our recent coaches are Ware, James and Newman. Spears isnt a starter any longer and Ratliff wasnt a starter when he first arrived.

There's enough good players here that the results should probably be better than what we've seen this year, although as I have said if Ryan gets another year I dont mind because I know there's going to be a significant number of changes defensively in terms of personnel next year, and if the results arnt better then he'll have fired himself. Hopefully with a full offseason of OTA's, mini camps and a real training camp, combined with a good crop of free agents and the draft can upgrade our defense enough to where we can challenge next yr.

So rule out Zimmer if you like.

Sure, there are only a couple who are holdovers from that time period but I think it has more to do with the overall mentality that remains from that era.

I just refuse to believe it's the DC at this point. The guys on defense can't pick up the schemes asked of them and can't avoid blowing assignments on a weekly basis.

You can't look at the history behind Wade and Ryan and say they are no longer worthwhile coaches.

Dallas has Lee and Ware on defense and that's pretty close to it. They have no stud in the secondary. They have some serviceable players but that's it.

 

[superpunk]

Jenkins is for sure servicable.

Scandrick, and at this point Newman, can only be considered "servicable" if the point of your defense is to allow first downs by being a step late but still be able to make the tackle after the first down pickup most of the time.

 

[dbair1967]

So rule out Zimmer if you like.

Sure, there are only a couple who are holdovers from that time period but I think it has more to do with the overall mentality that remains from that era.

I just refuse to believe it's the DC at this point. The guys on defense can't pick up the schemes asked of them and can't avoid blowing assignments on a weekly basis.

You can't look at the history behind Wade and Ryan and say they are no longer worthwhile coaches.

Dallas has Lee and Ware on defense and that's pretty close to it. They have no stud in the secondary. They have some serviceable players but that's it.

I can look at Ryan and perhaps conclude he isnt a "worthwhile" DC, because he's never had good results anywhere he's been. The excuse had always been lack of talent, but while this defense isnt elite talent wise there are some good players. By his own admission the talent here is vastly superior to anything else he has coached. Jay Ratliff is a very good player. Sean Lee and Ware are excellent players. Mike Jenkins is a very good CB. Newman is hot and cold now, but has been a top notch CB for a long time. I look at some other teams and what they have, they dont have 11 probowlers out there and get results, we should be able to get results as well.

I dont think it all on him, but he certainly deserves some blame here.

 

[superpunk]

I look at some other teams and what they have, they dont have 11 probowlers out there and get results, we should be able to get results as well.

Hmmmmm....but neither Wade (who is coaching one of the league's best defenses even without Mario Williams playing) and Ryan (whose Browns defenses by all accounts overachieved last season) has been able to get any sort of consistent play out of these chumps.

Maybe that's just coincidence though.

 

[dbair1967]

Hmmmmm....but neither Wade (who is coaching one of the league's best defenses even without Mario Williams playing) and Ryan (whose Browns defenses by all accounts overachieved last season) has been able to get any sort of consistent play out of these chumps.

Maybe that's just coincidence though.

I'd say Wade got pretty good results, up to the last season here. 2007, 2008 and 2009 were all pretty good defensively.

My point is some are pegging it solely on the players and trying to act like "its the same group of players" year after year. There's been alot of turnover on this defense the past 5-6 years or so.