Rob Ryan fired

[superpunk]

That's why I think the Tampa 2 and Lovie are so attractive to me.

We can get pass rushers. With Ware and Ratliff we're already half way there, I'm assuming they'll actually play an entire season.

We've got athletic LBs, which seems to be what really makes the Tampa 2 work. Guys who can drop in coverage and still be able to give run support to a pretty strict four man rush. And I think that defense masks deficiencies in the secondary, so we can get away with scrubs at safety.

Our QB is soooooo good that all we have to do is make our pass defense average, and we will win the east every year. I believe with Romo we've won the east every time our QBR allowed is ranked higher than 20th in the NFL.

 

[superpunk]

wade had his group in the second half of 08 kicking ass. We were lining up in the 46 and just manhandling teams.

until the 4th qtr of the ravens game, then those two long runs broke us and they didn't show up in philly.

but from the at Washington game before turkey day in 08 till that 4th qtr of the ravens game we kicked ass.
Washington, san Francisco, seattle, Pittsburgh and ny all got there ass kicked by wades defense.

to me that was his best stretch of defense he coached. He was outscheming and maximizing all our rushers and it worked. It was a much better stretch than the final month in 09 to me.

we lost ellis, burnett and canty that offseason and never saw that alignment again. It was great for the month that it lasted though.

Is that when Bradie James got every sack he's ever gotten?

 

[Theebs]

That's why I think the Tampa 2 and Lovie are so attractive to me.

We can get pass rushers. With Ware and Ratliff we're already half way there, I'm assuming they'll actually play an entire season.

We've got athletic LBs, which seems to be what really makes the Tampa 2 work. Guys who can drop in coverage and still be able to give run support to a pretty strict four man rush. And I think that defense masks deficiencies in the secondary, so we can get away with scrubs at safety.

Our QB is soooooo good that all we have to do is make our pass defense average, and we will win the east every year. I believe with Romo we've won the east every time our QBR allowed is ranked higher than 20th in the NFL.

I don't know what will work tbh. tired of worrying about it.

but I will say I am very confused by broaddus saying that our corners are press man and that it wont work playing soft cover 2.

I was always under the impression the better cover 2 teams pressed on the outside and then passed along there guys to the safeties. this allowed the lineman time to attack, the mlb to drop, and it allowed the corners to hold up the wr and then never have to turn and run and just sit down within 10 yards.

I am completely confused why archer and broaddus say carr and mo don't fit this...

and its not like lovie sits in cover 2 all the time, I don't even think that is marginally true. I heard romo laugh at the writers when we played the bears trying to explain how they don't just lineup in cover 2 every down.

 

[Theebs]

Is that when Bradie James got every sack he's ever gotten?

it is.

and Ratliff went crazy.

 

[superpunk]

I don't know what will work tbh. tired of worrying about it.

but I will say I am very confused by broaddus saying that our corners are press man and that it wont work playing soft cover 2.

I was always under the impression the better cover 2 teams pressed on the outside and then passed along there guys to the safeties. this allowed the lineman time to attack, the mlb to drop, and it allowed the corners to hold up the wr and then never have to turn and run and just sit down within 10 yards.

I am completely confused why archer and broaddus say carr and mo don't fit this...

and its not like lovie sits in cover 2 all the time, I don't even think that is marginally true. I heard romo laugh at the writers when we played the bears trying to explain how they don't just lineup in cover 2 every down.

Yeah it's just their base. Just like our base is ineffectively rush four (because 3 of the 4 aren't pass rushers in any sense) and play a sort of cover three or man cover 1.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

I don’t have proof, but my gut tells me Garrett made Ryan play conservative. This past season didn’t look like a Ryan defense at all. I think all you guys jerking on this new attack D are fooling yourselves. Garrett is conservative to the core and he will make sure the new DC understands that. Until we get another consistent pass rusher opposite of Ware and find safeties that can play, no scheme will help.

 

[dbair1967]

I bet they talk about tackling, fundamentals and playing sound.

.

Last time I checked, we suck at these. So yeah, somebody should be focusing on it.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I don’t have proof, but my gut tells me Garrett made Ryan play conservative. This past season didn’t look like a Ryan defense at all.

I believe it was Ben Rogers who said earlier in the year that he'd heard that very thing. Who knows if it's true or not.

But I don't think Ryan was ever as aggressive as everyone made him out to be. I think a lot of that perception came from his dad. But I remember doing some searching when we hired him and Cleveland fans said the one thing they didn't like about him was that he tended to play very soft coverage with a lead.

Bigger picture, I think it's funny that we've gone full circle now in the last decade or so. From Zimmer's 43 cover two to Parcells' two gap 34 to Wade's super attacking one gap 34 to Ryan's hybrid stuff to now wanting 43 cover 2 again.

Oh, and theebs -- you can play your corners on the line in cover 2 but they're still only playing man to man within their relatively small zones. And that doesn't require the type of elite cover corner you usually think of when you spend big money on corners. But after watching them, I'm not sure either Carr or Claiborne are that type of player anyway. They have to be tough tacklers, though, and the coaches probably have to stay on Clai about that.

 

[dbair1967]

I don’t have proof, but my gut tells me Garrett made Ryan play conservative. This past season didn’t look like a Ryan defense at all. I think all you guys jerking on this new attack D are fooling yourselves. Garrett is conservative to the core and he will make sure the new DC understands that. Until we get another consistent pass rusher opposite of Ware and find safeties that can play, no scheme will help.

Ryan never coached a very aggressive defense in Cleveland or Oakland either though.

He's never been as aggressive as his dad or brother were/are.

 

[bbgun]

Why would that be a bad thing?

Imagine if we had a defense that played with the intensity and flew to the ball like that first defense we had when Parcells got here. Fucking Dat Nguyen all over the fucking field, Glover getting in the backfield, Greg Ellis being mediocre. Only this time, we actually have talented players and Not Pete Hunter. I'd take that in a heartbeat. They played smart

Is tackling really a problem on this team? Lee and Carter were tackling machines, Ware and Spencer played the run extremely well, etc. I'm guessing the next coordinator will stress "pressure and attacking" due to our anemic numbers in the forced turnovers and sacks categories.

 

[Theebs]

I believe it was Ben Rogers who said earlier in the year that he'd heard that very thing. Who knows if it's true or not.

But I don't think Ryan was ever as aggressive as everyone made him out to be. I think a lot of that perception came from his dad. But I remember doing some searching when we hired him and Cleveland fans said the one thing they didn't like about him was that he tended to play very soft coverage with a lead.

Bigger picture, I think it's funny that we've gone full circle now in the last decade or so. From Zimmer's 43 cover two to Parcells' two gap 34 to Wade's super attacking one gap 34 to Ryan's hybrid stuff to now wanting 43 cover 2 again.

Oh, and theebs -- you can play your corners on the line in cover 2 but they're still only playing man to man within their relatively small zones. And that doesn't require the type of elite cover corner you usually think of when you spend big money on corners. But after watching them, I'm not sure either Carr or Claiborne are that type of player anyway. They have to be tough tacklers, though, and the coaches probably have to stay on Clai about that.

yea sorry about that I didn't mean man to man...I just meant press before they let them go and the corner sits down in his zone.

I feel like they can do that...especially if we could get good pressure.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

I believe it was Ben Rogers who said earlier in the year that he'd heard that very thing. Who knows if it's true or not.

But I don't think Ryan was ever as aggressive as everyone made him out to be. I think a lot of that perception came from his dad. But I remember doing some searching when we hired him and Cleveland fans said the one thing they didn't like about him was that he tended to play very soft coverage with a lead.

Bigger picture, I think it's funny that we've gone full circle now in the last decade or so. From Zimmer's 43 cover two to Parcells' two gap 34 to Wade's super attacking one gap 34 to Ryan's hybrid stuff to now wanting 43 cover 2 again.

Oh, and theebs -- you can play your corners on the line in cover 2 but they're still only playing man to man within their relatively small zones. And that doesn't require the type of elite cover corner you usually think of when you spend big money on corners. But after watching them, I'm not sure either Carr or Claiborne are that type of player anyway. They have to be tough tacklers, though, and the coaches probably have to stay on Clai about that.

Well two seasons ago you saw alot of exotic blitzing. It was fun to watch even tho it got burned too often.

If you are going to play cover 2, you better have a front 7 that can stop the run. You have to be sure tacklers and you better have stud middle linebackers that can stay healthy. Hate to see Ernie Mills trying to cover a TE 20 yards down the field.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

I feel like they can do that...especially if we could get good pressure.

Right, they can do it, it just might be a waste for certain players. The talents of a Deion or Champ Bailey would be wasted in that scheme... It would be like two-gapping Warren Sapp. But our corners aren't that type of player anyway. The best thing is it keeps everyone's eyes on the ball all the time and Carr and especially Claiborne have good ball skills.

Thing is, you really don't go up to #6 to take the best corner in the draft to make him a cover-2 corner. But that's water under the bridge now.

 

[Theebs]

Right, they can do it, it just might be a waste for certain players. The talents of a Deion or Champ Bailey would be wasted in that scheme... It would be like two-gapping Warren Sapp. But our corners aren't that type of player anyway. The best thing is it keeps everyone's eyes on the ball all the time and Carr and especially Claiborne have good ball skills.

Thing is, you really don't go up to #6 to take the best corner in the draft to make him a cover-2 corner. But that's water under the bridge now.

yep. I agree.

werder is saying kiffen is the guy now.

not sure how much I trust werders info at this point though.

 

[dbair1967]

Is tackling really a problem on this team? Lee and Carter were tackling machines, Ware and Spencer played the run extremely well, etc. I'm guessing the next coordinator will stress "pressure and attacking" due to our anemic numbers in the forced turnovers and sacks categories.

Last time i checked, we missed about 5000 tackles the last 4 or 5 games of the season. And not just from backup guys.

 

[superpunk]

Right, they can do it, it just might be a waste for certain players. The talents of a Deion or Champ Bailey would be wasted in that scheme... It would be like two-gapping Warren Sapp. But our corners aren't that type of player anyway. The best thing is it keeps everyone's eyes on the ball all the time and Carr and especially Claiborne have good ball skills.

Thing is, you really don't go up to #6 to take the best corner in the draft to make him a cover-2 corner. But that's water under the bridge now.

I'd spend the #6 pick on Peanut Tillman in a second. If that's what we get.

 

[marionbarberthe4th]

I love the idea of an aggressive, attacking defense that caused confusion and created turnovers. I grew to love that after seeing countless Cowboys games where we were a read/react/bend/try not to break but often times break defense and the Eagles were a kick the door in and butt fuck you in front of your kids kind of defense.

But we've never been able to do that. We still have blitzes that consist of backers running up Dlinemans backs, while corners play 20 yards off the wr on short yardage situations.


So yeah, whatever, give me a sound, fundamental defense that just plays straight up football. I'll take it. Whatevs.

I think if we get more athletic in the front 7 we can pull this off. More lb's who can rush, more linemen who can drop back and cover. More team speed overall.

More confusion would hopefully create more turnovers.

The new guy really needs to do some homework on our inability to create turnovers. Not only is it F'ing us in the A. It really takes a lot of fun out of watching the D.

 

[marionbarberthe4th]

Are you sure about that five minutes ?!

 

[Theebs]

Are you sure about that five minutes ?!

he is going to end up as the lb coach in jax or something.

 

[SixisBetter]

not sure how much I trust werders info at this point though.