Redemption for us when Garrett Gone

[dbair1967]

Why do you say this?

(not that it will ever matter who coaches in Dallas but I'm playing along for shitz & giggles)

Because he is a mediocre coach, always has been.

We have done mediocre plenty post-Jimmy, we need a real coach.

 

[dbair1967]

There was a huge backlash against Zimmer when he was here. Too soft, poorly coached, couldn't stop anyone, gave up big plays, etc. It's almost exactly what we are hearing today. I was as frustrated then under Zimmer as I am now under Rod and Richard. Been there, done that. He can stay in Minny.

Take a look at this link and tell me if we're talking about the current team or Zimmer?

Giving in And Joining the GROZ Movement

Bonehead mistakes on defense, endless PI calls, a lack of turning and looking for the ball, giving up endless big plays at the worst possible time, no physical identity, a lack of leadership, the "contain" mentality... We've been plagued for years and years (pre Parcells) with this and the one...

cowboyszone.com

Zimmer's D's had a propensity to choke in the 4th qtr too, happened a ton while he was here.

I am like you, I don't want anything to do with Zimmer here again, but we know Jerry might think of this in another way.

 

[dbair1967]

I wish I could find it but I was watching something years ago where Zimmer was the only guy consistently pushing back against jeri and all his sycophants typical over-positive evaluation of players and the team.

Sorry, don't believe this at all.

Hell Jones had to literally beg Parcells to keep Zimmer, and predictably it ended up being a huge mistake.

 

[SixisBetter]

Because he is a mediocre coach, always has been.

We have done mediocre plenty post-Jimmy, we need a real coach.

Somehow we even got the "I'm just here for a paycheck, a stadium grift, and probably make sketchy comments during a presser" version of Parcells.

 

[yimyammer]

not gonna multiquote all the replies from Dodger and dbair so here's a response to all of the above

Dodger: When Campo was hired, I checked out from the Cowboys and didn't watch or keep up with them for years. Then Parcells was hired and my fandom awoke from its slumber. I didn't even join a forum until sometime into Parcells career and was pretty oblivious to all things Zimmer (still am for the most part)

Dbair: As far as the video goes, I'll try to find it, I'm absolutely positive I saw what I saw, and you may not like a lot of the shit that I type but you know damn well I do not make up shit and try to call it fact, I am very methodical about citing sources so my track record of doing this should at least give you pause before you dismiss my claim out of hand.

Re the new HC:

First and foremost, we all are in absolute agreement that Dallas' needs a real coach with authority that is a disciplinarian, has experience, etc, etc

but

DALLAS IS NOT GOING TO GET A "REAL" COACH WITH AUTHORITY TO DO HIS JOB!!! **

^^^ put that in 6 inch headlines^^^

jeri and spawn will not allow it

** I've said it before Garrett was hired, whomever comes here will have one or more hands tied behind his back with limited power and authority and always have to contend with jeri and spawn talking nonstop and allowing players to go around the head coach, etc, etc.

So in light of the above is why I wonder if Zimmer MIGHT be able to work around and with jeri & spawn since I do believe he is a real coach with tons of experience, maybe he's not very good like y'all suggest but at least he's paid his dues & has a ton of experience. Regardless, I wasn't shilling for Zimmer (all I said was "he is a head scratcher"), I was just pondering whether he might be one of the better options given the constraints that come from ownership and if y'all are going to be realistic about who might come to Dallas, you have to factor in the Spector that is jeri and spawn. Zimmer is under contract for another year so he's really not even an option even if jeri was willing to consider him.

Also regarding Zimmer, I know he and Parcells are close and from what I gather Parcells is a fan of Zimmer. (you can listen to this video to hear him talk about how they still talk to this day (starts at the 3:22 mark):




I don't believe any real coach has any idea of the mad house he will have to contend with when coaching in Dallas plus the time and effort it will require to fight his bosses will take away from doing his best job and if he is unsuccessful fighting jeri & spawn or doesnt bother, then they will do what they do best and stink up the best efforts of even the most qualified coaches.

Lastly, I'll tell you this, I'll take Zimmer over Lincoln Fucking Riley for damn sure, maybe even Meyers too. I dont trust these college coaches that get to work for top 5-10 colleges that can recruit the best players year in and out.

If I went with a college coach, I think I'd take Matt Rhule over Zimmer, Meyers and Riley.

I'd also strongly consider McDaniels but debair & most fans shit all over him too.

The truth of the matter is I don't think any of us have a clue who would be the best candidate for an NFL coaching job

But what's even worse is I don't believe the guy making the decision does either so the best we can hope for is the blind squirrel finds a good nut

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

Zimmer? Garrett? Moore? Dan Campbell? Can we fucking have a fresh start instead of guys who used to be on Jerry's payroll? Hire the best guy, not someone you already "know."

And if we are going to hire someone who was on the payroll I'd take Campbell over Zimmer.

 

[yimyammer]

God, if you're listening, please make this happen

Hey amigo, if we're gonna call on a deity for help, don't you think we have a better request than who coaches the foreskins?

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

I can totally see Zimmer being hired. I'm not a fan of that idea because Zimmer doesn't have a good vibe to me. Add on, that he hasn't been all that great with the Vikings and you have a recipe for a mediocre hire. Now, if he brings Kubiak and Stefanski with him then I think things would look better.

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

RapSheet's article about the coaching carousel:

A look at potential coaching changes across the NFL

www.nfl.com

The part specifically about the Cowboys:

» The Cowboys are expected to move on from coach Jason Garrett with a loss to the Redskins Sunday or missing the playoffs, which would happen even with a win if the Eagles win as well. Garrett won't need to be specifically fired because his contract is up, and it expires on either Jan. 14 or three days after the season. Sounds like Garrett could use a fresh start as well. Among the coaches they'll likely target are Oklahoma's Lincoln Riley, Rhule, former Ohio State coach Urban Meyer, potentially Rivera and others. Put nothing past Jerry Jones - even a trade if someone he likes (such as Minnesota's Mike Zimmer) becomes available.

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora's article about the Cowboys search:

Cowboys' expected coaching search to include college options, including two from Big 12

Jerry Jones has been interested in a pair of Big 12 coaches for quite some time

www.cbssports.com

 

[Dodger12]

not gonna multiquote all the replies from Dodger and dbair so here's a response to all of the above

Dodger: When Campo was hired, I checked out from the Cowboys and didn't watch or keep up with them for years. Then Parcells was hired and my fandom awoke from its slumber. I didn't even join a forum until sometime into Parcells career and was pretty oblivious to all things Zimmer (still am for the most part)

Dbair: As far as the video goes, I'll try to find it, I'm absolutely positive I saw what I saw, and you may not like a lot of the shit that I type but you know damn well I do not make up shit and try to call it fact, I am very methodical about citing sources so my track record of doing this should at least give you pause before you dismiss my claim out of hand.

Re the new HC:

First and foremost, we all are in absolute agreement that Dallas' needs a real coach with authority that is a disciplinarian, has experience, etc, etc

but

DALLAS IS NOT GOING TO GET A "REAL" COACH WITH AUTHORITY TO DO HIS JOB!!! **

^^^ put that in 6 inch headlines^^^

jeri and spawn will not allow it

** I've said it before Garrett was hired, whomever comes here will have one or more hands tied behind his back with limited power and authority and always have to contend with jeri and spawn talking nonstop and allowing players to go around the head coach, etc, etc.

So in light of the above is why I wonder if Zimmer MIGHT be able to work around and with jeri & spawn since I do believe he is a real coach with tons of experience, maybe he's not very good like y'all suggest but at least he's paid his dues & has a ton of experience. Regardless, I wasn't shilling for Zimmer (all I said was "he is a head scratcher"), I was just pondering whether he might be one of the better options given the constraints that come from ownership and if y'all are going to be realistic about who might come to Dallas, you have to factor in the Spector that is jeri and spawn. Zimmer is under contract for another year so he's really not even an option even if jeri was willing to consider him.

Also regarding Zimmer, I know he and Parcells are close and from what I gather Parcells is a fan of Zimmer. (you can listen to this video to hear him talk about how they still talk to this day (starts at the 3:22 mark):

Good post but let me start by saying I haven't heard anyone talk about Zimmer as an innovator on the D side of the ball. Parcells liked him because Jerry asked BP to keep Zimmer on and he was a coach's son. His defenses were soft and as dbair mentioned, just couldn't keep a lead. I was as tired of Zimmer as I am Rod/Richard. Zimmer went to Atlanta and they tanked and then went to Cincy but Marvin Lewis was the real DC. And the fact that Minny would even be willing to let him walk is very telling. Zimmer might be an upgrade to Garrett simply because he growls and cusses instead of claps and spits. Other than that, you'd get the same yes man who would fail on his side of the ball.

I get it. A HC's job is nearly impossible with Jerry and his ilk. But we should still try and get the best we can and not another friend of Jerry's. I despise Zimmer like I do Rod and I'm sure Rod was a good coach in his day but he's not an innovator that can neutralize a team's strength. Zimmer will look the part, scream and look/act like he's holding the players accountable. But Dallas let him walk to take a lateral position for a reason.

 

[yimyammer]

Good post but let me start by saying I haven't heard anyone talk about Zimmer as an innovator of the D side of the ball. Parcells liked him because Jerry asked BP to keep Zimmer on and he was a coach's son. His defenses were soft and as dbair mentioned, just couldn't keep a lead. I was as tired of Zimmer as I am Rod/Richard. Zimmer went to Atlanta and they tanked and then went to Cincy but Marvin Lewis was the real DC. And the fact that Minny would even be willing to let him walk is very telling. Zimmer might be an upgrade to Garrett simply because he growls and cusses instead of claps and spits. Other than that, you'd get the same yes man who would fail on his side of the ball.

I get it. A HC's job is nearly impossible with Jerry and his ilk. But we should still try and get the best we can and not another friend of Jerry's. I despise Zimmer like I do Rod and I'm sure Rod was a good coach in his day but he's not an innovator that can neutralize a team's strength. Zimmer will look the part, scream and look/act liek he's holding the players accountable. But Dallas let him walk to take a lateral position for a reason.

Fair enough, I really have no idea about him, just thought he sounded decent in the few things I've seen.

I'm not trying to have a petty argument about a mundane issue but IIUC, you're saying Parcells only feigned a friendship with Zimmer because Jerry forced him on Bill but that doesn't explain why Bill and Zimmer are still friends to this day & stay in touch plus he coached in Dallas for all of Parcells time here did he not? If he was so awful, I think Bill could have gotten rid of him. In the video I quoted Zimmer says before the game vs Dallas this year Bill texted Zimmer and said they are good friends. Plus I swear I heard Parcells comment on how he respected Zimmer as a coach

None of the above means he should be the coach in Dallas but with all due respect, you and dbairs disdain for Zimmer sounds a little over the top. Zimmer is not the same coach he was in 1994 when he first came to the Cowboys. He's heavily influenced to this day by Bill Parcells and coached under him for 4 years in Dallas. I think dbair hates Parcells & perhaps you do too but I love him and think if he's influencing Zimmer and has respect for Zimmer as a HC then that carries some weight to me.

It doesnt mean I'm confident he should be the next guy in Dallas but it does make me think he's not a bad coach, certainly nothing in the same stratosphere as Garrett, I'm just not seeing what you guys are when it comes to Zimmer but I'm open to changing my view of him if y'all want to provide more details as to why he's so bad.

And FWIW I don't think he's coming here, especially if he's listening to Bill who would likely tell him to never come to Dallas.

Further, y'all keep saying dont get a friend of jerry or a yes man but its apparently not registering with you that I dont believe thats an option. We'll get someone who jeri is very comfortable with and/or pliable, perhaps even an old colleague like Zimmer.

I wish it wasn't true and I hope you can bookmark my many posts and throw it in my face if jeri proves otherwise but I cant say it any clearer, the type of coaches you want in Dallas are not option for jeri & spawn imho.

So, I believe the question should be reframed to be:

"Who is the best option Jerry & spawn are willing to hire?"

 

[Dodger12]

Fair enough, I really have no idea about him, just thought he sounded decent in the few things I've seen.

I'm not trying to have a petty argument about a mundane issue but IIUC, you're saying Parcells only feigned a friendship with Zimmer because Jerry forced him on Bill but that doesn't explain why Bill and Zimmer are still friends to this day & stay in touch plus he coached in Dallas for all of Parcells time here did he not? If he was so awful, I think Bill could have gotten rid of him. In the video I quoted Zimmer says before the game vs Dallas this year Bill texted Zimmer and said they are good friends. Plus I swear I heard Parcells comment on how he respected Zimmer as a coach

None of the above means he should be the coach in Dallas but with all due respect, you and dbairs disdain for Zimmer sounds a little over the top. Zimmer is not the same coach he was in 1994 when he first came to the Cowboys. He's heavily influenced to this day by Bill Parcells and coached under him for 4 years in Dallas. I think dbair hates Parcells & perhaps you do too but I love him and think if he's influencing Zimmer and has respect for Zimmer as a HC then that carries some weight to me.

It doesnt mean I'm confident he should be the next guy in Dallas but it does make me think he's not a bad coach, certainly nothing in the same stratosphere as Garrett, I'm just not seeing what you guys are when it comes to Zimmer but I'm open to changing my view of him if y'all want to provide more details as to why he's so bad.

And FWIW I don't think he's coming here, especially if he's listening to Bill who would likely tell him to never come to Dallas.

Further, y'all keep saying dont get a friend of jerry or a yes man but its apparently not registering with you that I dont believe thats an option. We'll get someone who jeri is very comfortable with and/or pliable, perhaps even an old colleague like Zimmer.

I wish it wasn't true and I hope you can bookmark my many posts and throw it in my face if jeri proves otherwise but I cant say it any clearer, the type of coaches you want in Dallas are not option for jeri & spawn imho.

So, I believe the question should be reframed to be:

"Who is the best option Jerry & spawn are willing to hire?"

No argument here Yimmy and I respect your opinion. My disdain for Zimmer only has to do with him as a coach. And I could appreciate any Parcells influence but tell me where that is? He's still a 4-3 guy, where BP was a 3-4. What defensive philosophies have rubbed off on Zimmer? Zimmer got a shot at coaching without really accomplishing much as a DC. But he did work his way up the ranks and paid his dues which earns him infinitely more respect than Garrett. But his growl and tough guy demeanor will wear of when his D plays 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 1 and won't stop anyone.

Read this and tell me if we're talking about the Cowboys or the Vikings:

https://www.skornorth.com/vikings-2...ing-his-last-regular-season-game-for-vikings/

 

[dbair1967]

And if we are going to hire someone who was on the payroll I'd take Campbell over Zimmer.

Yeah I think I would too. Zimmer is more proven, but the proof is he is mediocre. Campbell might be mediocre too, but we don't know that for sure.

 

[dbair1967]

Fair enough, I really have no idea about him, just thought he sounded decent in the few things I've seen.

I'm not trying to have a petty argument about a mundane issue but IIUC, you're saying Parcells only feigned a friendship with Zimmer because Jerry forced him on Bill but that doesn't explain why Bill and Zimmer are still friends to this day & stay in touch plus he coached in Dallas for all of Parcells time here did he not? If he was so awful, I think Bill could have gotten rid of him. In the video I quoted Zimmer says before the game vs Dallas this year Bill texted Zimmer and said they are good friends. Plus I swear I heard Parcells comment on how he respected Zimmer as a coach

None of the above means he should be the coach in Dallas but with all due respect, you and dbairs disdain for Zimmer sounds a little over the top. Zimmer is not the same coach he was in 1994 when he first came to the Cowboys. He's heavily influenced to this day by Bill Parcells and coached under him for 4 years in Dallas. I think dbair hates Parcells & perhaps you do too but I love him and think if he's influencing Zimmer and has respect for Zimmer as a HC then that carries some weight to me.

It doesnt mean I'm confident he should be the next guy in Dallas but it does make me think he's not a bad coach, certainly nothing in the same stratosphere as Garrett, I'm just not seeing what you guys are when it comes to Zimmer but I'm open to changing my view of him if y'all want to provide more details as to why he's so bad.

And FWIW I don't think he's coming here, especially if he's listening to Bill who would likely tell him to never come to Dallas.

Further, y'all keep saying dont get a friend of jerry or a yes man but its apparently not registering with you that I dont believe thats an option. We'll get someone who jeri is very comfortable with and/or pliable, perhaps even an old colleague like Zimmer.

I wish it wasn't true and I hope you can bookmark my many posts and throw it in my face if jeri proves otherwise but I cant say it any clearer, the type of coaches you want in Dallas are not option for jeri & spawn imho.

So, I believe the question should be reframed to be:

"Who is the best option Jerry & spawn are willing to hire?"

Gee Yim, I didn't know you had a blow up doll of Zimmer there with you.

Yes, it's a fact that Jones had to convince (ie, begged) Parcells to at least interview Zimmer. Parcells had full autonomy on the coaching staff and his goal was to immediately implement his 3-4 style of defense. Obviously he kept him, let Zimmer stick with his style of defense (which was awful in 2004, the last season of the 4-3 under Parcells, after the season Parcells made the comment "we are changing the defense, and everybody will have to get on board otherwise they wont be here"). Nobody is disputing that he didn't end up liking Zimmer. Zimmer coached two more yrs under Parcells and tried to run his 3-4, and he did it poorly. When Zimmer left, he never coached another down of 3-4 system.

I don't like Zimmer because I think he is mediocre. We have had plenty of mediocre with Wade and Red Plague. We need a real winner and Zimmer has not been that. Other than the miracle of miracles finish to get to a conference championship Zimmer hasn't done anything that Garrett hasn't done. He has 6 seasons under his belt and 3 of them are basically 8-8. We have seen plenty of that. Fast forward to this yr, the Vikes have 1 win vs a team with a winning record and look like a certain 1 and done team in the playoffs. Zimmer also has a fickle track record of working with offensive assistants in Minnesota and couldn't even work with Norv Turner (who left mid season). Zimmer is also 63 yrs old.

That said, if Minnesota is 1 and done and wont give Zimmer another contract, I wont be surprised if the Jones' at least make a phone call. I also doubt Parcells would intervene as you allude to and tell Zimmer not to work here, Zimmer worked for Jones for a long time prior to Parcells being here, and Parcells still says to this day he liked working with Jones (for whatever reason, my opinion is he just liked Jones money and needed it at the time)

 

[yimyammer]

And I could appreciate any Parcells influence but tell me where that is?

Its in Parcells influence on how to be a head coach, Zimmer talks about how Parcells was telling him how to be a HC while he was with Dallas and still does to this day. I like his philosophy on managing players, etc and any coach who can learn from Bill and emulate his philosophy should be a better coach imho, thats all.

Gee Yim, I didn't know you had a blow up doll of Zimmer there with you.

maybe you and dodger can split the cost on an icepick and send it to me so I can pop it for good

Anyway, I'll move past the endless Zimmer back and forth, y'all resoundingly despise the guy, duly noted.

Outside of Belichick, everyone seems mortal to me. Plus, I don't see any team playing great defense these days. So, I'll ask:

Who is this miracle worker (or workers) you believe could come to Dallas and kick ass on offense, defense and special teams?

AND if the above person(s) exist, what makes you think they can succeed within jeri's stupid way of doing things?

 

[Ragnar]

An interim head coach that starts off 8-8 in his first 3 seasons should not have been kept. This team has underachieved in most of the 9 years he has been coach. This year is only different in that it's more obvious. No more excuses. No broken clock season (you get 2) to save his job.

When that bum Jerry calls a presser to announce parting ways with his adopted son, what a feast I'm going to have. There will be a full cardiac menu and booze! Lots of booze. I may be hospitalized.

 

[BriefAndToThePoint]

Cowboys fans ...

 

[nickb]

I don't know that it'll be as sweet as Jerry's demise, but it's close. 10 years....10 fucking years knowing full well (after the 1st or 2nd year) that this guy was a fraud. And Jerry kept feeding us this BS so Jerry could feel comfortable with a yes man. He can't go soon enough.

Nothing will be as sweet as that wind bag kicking the bucket or at minimum being so mentally incapacitated that he has to relinquish it all...but this will be a close second!!

 

[nickb]

If a coaching change is truly going to be made, I hope to see former Panthers coach, Ron Rivera become the new Cowboys coach.

Absolutely fucken not, no fucken retreads (Rivera, Lewis, McCarthy)
Give me something fresh. I'd like to see Meyer get a shot at this...has succeeded wherever he has coached and we have had success with bringing in a college coach (albeit 75yrs ago)...Paul Finebaum did note that Meyer would want total control and I think he might be able to convince Jerry to do some of that...the simple argument should be "hey Jerra, how has the last 25yrs worked out for you?"