Poll- 83% of physicians consider quitting over Obamacare

[cmd34]

Quit being a blind liberal

Oh the hypocrisy... blind homer.

 

[dbair1967]

Oh the hypocrisy... blind homer.

CMD is a lousy Mod

 

[dbair1967]

Cost associated with Medicare are still lower than private practice. Why do you think doctors are opting out in the first place? Prices need to come down man and Medicare does a better job of controlling cost than the market on its own. And you did not even try to respond to the timeline. 20 years of of Medicare/Aid and then prices spiked. Correlation does not imply causality but when there is none it rules it out. It is what it is.

Alot of doctors opt out because Medicare doesnt reimburse enough, they also opt out due to excessive government control, government required paperwork etc etc.

Show me anywhere that indicates that the requirements for med school admission have been relaxed. All you are doing is confirmation bias based on literally nothing. Do you always suppose things you want to be true and insert them for facts? That is intellectual laziness laid bare.

Can you show otherwise? No. You dont have any data either.

I work in the healthcare field and have for 15+ years. I work with alot of physicians, pharmacists, other healthcare practicioners etc etc. Alot of them have voiced concerns that in the decades to come, our most talented/gifted students who in the past have opted for medical careers may choose to go elsewhere (career wise) and thus create a situation where lesser qualified people are let into medical school to offset demand.

I am all over the place in concerns to the political spectrum. I want illegal immigrants deported, gun ownership by the law abiding not to be fucked with, support capital punishment, support the right to abortion, want Citizens United overturned, reregulation of the banking industry, graduated taxes, support anti-trust laws, elimination of party affiliation of ballots, a parliamentary election system to replace the travesty that is the single member district, elimination of the senate, a steady ratio citizens to representatives to around 250,000:1, elimination of government funding to the established political parties, the prohibition of lobbying groups from government panels and boards, elimination of drug laws, amendments to the constitution that actually address political parties and lobbying, and much more.

Wow. All over the place is right.

I know it's you schtick to label anyone that disagrees with you as liberals so you can be intellectually lazy and discount them out of hand but for someone as intelligent as you that is pretty damn sad.

The vast majority of people who support Obamacare or other government controlled medical plans are liberals. There are some exceptions, but not many.

 

[Hoofbite]

not all that surprised after reading some of your other posts

Spell it out........

 

[Hoofbite]

Alot of doctors opt out because Medicare doesnt reimburse enough, they also opt out due to excessive government control, government required paperwork etc etc.

Can you show otherwise? No. You dont have any data either.

I work in the healthcare field and have for 15+ years. I work with alot of physicians, pharmacists, other healthcare practicioners etc etc. Alot of them have voiced concerns that in the decades to come, our most talented/gifted students who in the past have opted for medical careers may choose to go elsewhere (career wise) and thus create a situation where lesser qualified people are let into medical school to offset demand.

Wow. All over the place is right.

The vast majority of people who support Obamacare or other government controlled medical plans are liberals. There are some exceptions, but not many.

That's because the vast majority, in both support for and opposition against, are just following party lines.

The vast majority are fucking sheep.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Heritage Foundation came up with the notion of mandating insurance coverage and Romney implemented it. Party lines is about right because the only reason why the ACA is considered liberal is because the Democrats pushed it.

I am not the one that is claiming that the quality of students is going down. You are and as such it is your burden of proof. Anecdotes are nice and all but I know a whole slew of current med/nursing school students as well as recent graduates and I do not get the impression that they are anything other than bright educated motivated individuals.

At least you do not deny that Medicare/aid gets better deals than private practices do.

 

[lons]

That's because the vast majority, in both support for and opposition against, are just following party lines.

The vast majority are fucking sheep.

Yup, you can always win debates and arguments by calling someone a fucking sheep. /nod That's the thread there folks. Hoofbite won. He said fucking sheep.

 

[lons]

The Heritage Foundation came up with the notion of mandating insurance coverage and Romney implemented it. Party lines is about right because the only reason why the ACA is considered liberal is because the Democrats pushed it.

I am not the one that is claiming that the quality of students is going down. You are and as such it is your burden of proof. Anecdotes are nice and all but I know a whole slew of current med/nursing school students as well as recent graduates and I do not get the impression that they are anything other than bright educated motivated individuals.

At least you do not deny that Medicare/aid gets better deals than private practices do.

Romney doing something as Gov of a state is completely different than Obama doing the exact same thing USA wide. The Feds are over reaching with this. It is a state issue and states should take care of it themselves. Not the Feds.

If states wanted this they would add it.

Truth is, every state that has tried this has failed to be able to keep up with it at all. It's a failed policy and the only people that move to those states are the one's that want free shit. There were a host of things that could have been done to combat this, they choose a 2700 page bill that increases the IRS as well as gives them carte blanche over folks medical bills, records, as well as bank accounts. Why was Student loans included in this fucking bill?

Oh but the Repubs put the mandate in it, look in 1992 when they added it!! Yeah, they put that in, because it was the only way to pay for the thing and they thought you'd have to be an idiot to pass it now! Thing is, if you have this before an honest Congress, it never gets passed.

You don't pass a law that tells me what I have to do and then exempt yourself from it... If it is so great, then you need to be in on it as well.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Romney doing something as Gov of a state is completely different than Obama doing the exact same thing USA wide. The Feds are over reaching with this. It is a state issue and states should take care of it themselves. Not the Feds.

If states wanted this they would add it.

Truth is, every state that has tried this has failed to be able to keep up with it at all. It's a failed policy and the only people that move to those states are the one's that want free shit. There were a host of things that could have been done to combat this, they choose a 2700 page bill that increases the IRS as well as gives them carte blanche over folks medical bills, records, as well as bank accounts. Why was Student loans included in this fucking bill?

Oh but the Repubs put the mandate in it, look in 1992 when they added it!! Yeah, they put that in, because it was the only way to pay for the thing and they thought you'd have to be an idiot to pass it now! Thing is, if you have this before an honest Congress, it never gets passed.

You don't pass a law that tells me what I have to do and then exempt yourself from it... If it is so great, then you need to be in on it as well.

SCOTUS has ruled that it's within the feds authority. You can rail about overreach all day long but the objective legal standard is the SCOTUS and it is what it is. If you mean overreach as in it's not within their authority then you are wrong.

The political process sucks and earmarks are lame. That's besides the point.

Massachusetts is the only state with a mandate and they are not amongst the top 10 deficits from the vantage point of gross or percentage of total budget.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/01/14/10-states-with-the-largest-budget-shortfalls

According to Forbes --not a particularly liberal publication-- Massachusetts has the 7th best medical coverage in the country. FWIW Texas is dead last.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/09/best-states-healthcare-business-washington-reform_slide_8.html

 

[Hoofbite]

Yup, you can always win debates and arguments by calling someone a fucking sheep. /nod That's the thread there folks. Hoofbite won. He said fucking sheep.

I'm not trying to win any argument. Saying that democrats support their democrat leaders is as pointless as saying that republicans support their republican leaders.

You do realize I included both parties when calling the vast majority "sheep", don't you?

What argument is to be won by shitting on both sides of the argument?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not trying to win any argument. Saying that democrats support their democrat leaders is as pointless as saying that republicans support their republican leaders.

You do realize I included both parties when calling the vast majority "sheep", don't you?

What argument is to be won by shitting on both sides of the argument?

I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.


I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.

In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them.

In no other country in the world is the love of property keener or more alert than in the United States, and nowhere else does the majority display less inclination toward doctrines which in any way threaten the way property is owned.

In the United States, the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved from the necessity of forming opinions of their own.

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

The greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation, but rather in her ability to repair her faults.

The surface of American society is covered with a layer of democratic paint, but from time to time one can see the old aristocratic colours breaking through.

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.

 

[lons]

SCOTUS has ruled that it's within the feds authority. You can rail about overreach all day long but the objective legal standard is the SCOTUS and it is what it is. If you mean overreach as in it's not within their authority then you are wrong.

The political process sucks and earmarks are lame. That's besides the point.

Massachusetts is the only state with a mandate and they are not amongst the top 10 deficits from the vantage point of gross or percentage of total budget.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/01/14/10-states-with-the-largest-budget-shortfalls

According to Forbes --not a particularly liberal publication-- Massachusetts has the 7th best medical coverage in the country. FWIW Texas is dead last.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/09/best-states-healthcare-business-washington-reform_slide_8.html

Yeah, SCOTUS said it's legal... as a tax. It was never presented as a tax. The President of the United States said countless times it wasn't a tax. It was never ever presented as a tax. But because the only way it can go forward according to the SCOTUS is that is if it is a TAX then I guess you got me good there...

Tennessee also has a state run TennCare thing. I got to see it first hand anytime I was sick while working at Dell in Nashville. While I wasn't on TennCare, the state made it impossible for anyone to actually book a Dr for anything other than a 3 month ahead of time visit, because of it. It was impossible to find a doctor and everyone just went to the ER's and flooded them. I gotta love those gals that have nothing better to do on a week day than to head to the local ER and ask for tests cause they aren't feeling so good while watching their Soaps.

Yup... I just can't wait til every fucking one of the fucktards that voted for this piece of shit bill has to live with the reality of what it is.

Coverage means shit if you can't get seen. Holy fuck.

 

[dbair1967]

Spell it out........

Did you even read what I replied to? Or are you just trying to drum up shit?

 

[Hoofbite]

Did you even read what I replied to? Or are you just trying to drum up shit?

Oh no, I read it.

I'm just trying to figure out how your response to him saying that other healthcare professionals should be given more ability in the workplace makes any sense.

Seeing how both of those professions you listed have varying levels of independence with some states being more lenient than others, I don't see how mentioning them makes much of a difference. The laws vary by state.

 

[dbair1967]

Oh no, I read it.

I'm just trying to figure out how your response to him saying that other healthcare professionals should be given more ability in the workplace makes any sense.

Seeing how both of those professions you listed have varying levels of independence with some states being more lenient than others, I don't see how mentioning them makes much of a difference. The laws vary by state.

In what states can nurse practitioners prescribe medication?

NPs are documented as safe, high-quality health care providers, and have varying degrees of prescriptive authority in all 50 United States. Following is a break down of prescriptive rights:

States where NPs can prescribe (including controlled substances) independent of any physician involvement: AK, AZ, DC, IA, ME, MT, NH, NM, OR, UT, WA, WI, WY.

States where NPs can prescribe (including controlled substances) with some degree of physician involvement: AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, IN, KS, MA, MI, MN, NC, ND, NE, NJ, NY, OK, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, VT, WV.

States where NPs can prescribe (excluding controlled substances) with some degree of physician involvement: AL, KY, LA, MO, MS, NV, OH, TX, VA.

States where NPs may receive and dispense drug samples: AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, HI, IA, ID, IL, IN, KS, LA, MA, MD, ME, MI, MN, MO, MS, NC, ND, NE, NH, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OH, OK, OR, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, WV, WY.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah, SCOTUS said it's legal... as a tax. It was never presented as a tax. The President of the United States said countless times it wasn't a tax. It was never ever presented as a tax. But because the only way it can go forward according to the SCOTUS is that is if it is a TAX then I guess you got me good there...

Tennessee also has a state run TennCare thing. I got to see it first hand anytime I was sick while working at Dell in Nashville. While I wasn't on TennCare, the state made it impossible for anyone to actually book a Dr for anything other than a 3 month ahead of time visit, because of it. It was impossible to find a doctor and everyone just went to the ER's and flooded them. I gotta love those gals that have nothing better to do on a week day than to head to the local ER and ask for tests cause they aren't feeling so good while watching their Soaps.

Yup... I just can't wait til every fucking one of the fucktards that voted for this piece of shit bill has to live with the reality of what it is.

Coverage means shit if you can't get seen. Holy fuck.

The DoJ lawyers argued it in court and thats all that matters. Again if you want to complain about politicians lying then go right ahead. The law is within their authority and that is from the Supreme Court. Go and file suit in your nearest federal courthouse and see what happens.

And why the hell do you keep on bringing up other health care systems. What is the parallel between the ACA and what Tennessee? I mean even then your anecdotes are cute and all but I looked for some sort of news report that corroborated your anecdote and all I found was a report from a BlueCross/Blue Shield think tank that wait times 'might increase.'

What I did read was that people that had their insurance lapse and wanted to get into the TN health program had a 6th month moratorium and during that time they went to the ER. That is waiting for coverage and not waiting on a doctor.

 

[Cythim]

In what states can nurse practitioners prescribe medication?

NPs are documented as safe, high-quality health care providers, and have varying degrees of prescriptive authority in all 50 United States. Following is a break down of prescriptive rights:

States where NPs can prescribe (including controlled substances) independent of any physician involvement: AK, AZ, DC, IA, ME, MT, NH, NM, OR, UT, WA, WI, WY.

States where NPs can prescribe (including controlled substances) with some degree of physician involvement: AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, IN, KS, MA, MI, MN, NC, ND, NE, NJ, NY, OK, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, VT, WV.

States where NPs can prescribe (excluding controlled substances) with some degree of physician involvement: AL, KY, LA, MO, MS, NV, OH, TX, VA.

States where NPs may receive and dispense drug samples: AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, HI, IA, ID, IL, IN, KS, LA, MA, MD, ME, MI, MN, MO, MS, NC, ND, NE, NH, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OH, OK, OR, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, WV, WY.

PAs and NPs still require doctors as supervisors and those NPs with complete independence will typically require a doctorate anyways.

 

[Hoofbite]

In what states can nurse practitioners prescribe medication?

NPs are documented as safe, high-quality health care providers, and have varying degrees of prescriptive authority in all 50 United States. Following is a break down of prescriptive rights:

States where NPs can prescribe (including controlled substances) independent of any physician involvement: AK, AZ, DC, IA, ME, MT, NH, NM, OR, UT, WA, WI, WY.

States where NPs can prescribe (including controlled substances) with some degree of physician involvement: AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, IN, KS, MA, MI, MN, NC, ND, NE, NJ, NY, OK, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, VT, WV.

States where NPs can prescribe (excluding controlled substances) with some degree of physician involvement: AL, KY, LA, MO, MS, NV, OH, TX, VA.

States where NPs may receive and dispense drug samples: AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, HI, IA, ID, IL, IN, KS, LA, MA, MD, ME, MI, MN, MO, MS, NC, ND, NE, NH, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OH, OK, OR, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, WV, WY.

Thanks for affirming what I said about varying levels of independence.

 

[dbair1967]

Thanks for affirming what I said about varying levels of independence.

and thanks for affirming that you still didnt read (or maybe didnt understand) shit that was in his original post and why I answered the way I did

 

[dbair1967]

PAs and NPs still require doctors as supervisors and those NPs with complete independence will typically require a doctorate anyways.

Your OP makes it appear you didnt even know it (ability to see NP's and PA's) existed.