- Thread starter Bob Sacamano
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That's who I was referring to.
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Bob Sturm on NFL draft: I think Derrick Henry would have absolutely destroyed teams with the Cowboys
Kevin Sherrington: As you said, you don't want to give them a grade. Let me just ask you this. First of all, we know that you felt like with the first pick, you certainly liked Zeke Elliot as a running back but probably would have leaned towards Jalen Ramsey instead?
Bob Sturm: My perfect solution to this draft, I was asked a million times, what are you doing when it comes to No. 4? I did not imagine Jalen Ramsey was going to be available before everyone started making trades for quarterbacks. But once those trades happened, the Cowboys had a chance to take the best defensive player in the draft or maybe the best player in the draft, although quarterbacks always turn the market on its ear. So I thought the chance to get a blue-chip difference maker at corner or safety was a really great idea. But then, honestly, what governs my decision-making process at No. 4 is partly I would never take a running back that high, unless I was absolutely positive that player was Adrian Peterson or something similar. And I think with each passing year and each passing generation, running back is becoming less and less important. The Cowboys are trying, I think, by kind of using their 1990s philosophy. In 2014 it was pretty convincing, but the rest of the NFL doesn't really believe that 1990s football works. They believe it's a passing league. And we know this. We can look at any Cowboys game in the last couple of years. Where the game is in doubt if the Cowboys are tied or behind, pretty much every play they call is going to be a pass. So in that situation, if you're tied or behind, late in a game the game's on the line you obviously pay your quarterback what you do because he now decides the outcome of the game. They had DeMarco Murray in 2014. DeMarco Murray helped ice away a few games. But when they needed rallies, heck when they were trying to rally against Detroit in the playoffs or Green Bay in the playoffs they weren't running the ball in the fourth quarter. They weren't running the ball at all. So to put all of that in a running back seems crazy.
Kevin Sherrington: I will say this. I was stunned by the second-round pick of Jaylon Smith.
Barry Horn: What about this? What if they had taken Ramsey with the first pick and if they wanted a running back taken Derrick Henry with the second pick? Would you have liked that better?
Sturm: Oh my gosh yes. I think Derrick Henry with this team would have absolutely destroyed teams. And that's not at all me saying Ezekiel Elliot is not a really good player. I will stop short of saying he has Adrian Peterson or Todd Gurley traits, but I still think far and away he is the best RB in this market. That said, with the Dallas Cowboys specific situation of having so much talent on their offensive line and so much success running the ball with replacement level running backs like Darren McFadden, it seems foolish to me to take your biggest asset and fix something that's not broken. So basically, if you could get a top college running back, maybe not the best one, but the second or third or fourth best running back, later on in this draft, kind of using the same theory with Dak Prescott, we like the kid, but there' a price where its too expensive so let's wait, that's what I wish they would have done at running back. That, I think would have been the better way to skin the cat. That said, if the object of the game is to leave the draft with elite talent you didn't already have, to get Ezekiel Elliot and Jaylon Smith assuming thy have medial information that gives them the likelihood Jaylon Smith will be Jaylon Smith again really soon within 12 months, that's still a pretty good day. I know everyone wants an A+ or an F grade on every single draft. I'm just not that type of guy. I think we require a little nuance here. I think they did okay. I think they could done better. But I realize every Cowboy fan is so excited that Ezekiel Elliot is Emmitt Smith so I don't want to rain on the parade. I just think they could have spent slightly differently.
Sherrington: It seems funny to me they're so intent right now on building with linebackers. We have Sean Lee, terrific linebacker. I'd say Sean Lee was as good of a linebacker they've had in the past 25 years when he's healthy. And then you add Jaylon Smith, that's another guy with tremendous athletic ability. Are we talking about the difference in the game today because of what's required from a linebacker in coverage or is that just a completely different mindset all together?
Sturm: I think what's interesting though, I do think at some point you're required to do a little draft study and kind of cross reference it with career spans. And I think the positions of Ezekiel Elliot and Jaylon Smith are the two positions where the NFL has kind of stopped over paying for because they are high-collision positions where it's impossible for human beings to endure for years at a time and live long careers. We always talk about the money four positions, quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher and cornerback. These are long life span positions. There are exceptions of course to every rule, but if you are a run and hit linebacker, or a running back, odds are by the time you're 28 teams are going to get a little squeamish about offering you a five-year deal.
Kevin Sherrington: As you said, you don't want to give them a grade. Let me just ask you this. First of all, we know that you felt like with the first pick, you certainly liked Zeke Elliot as a running back but probably would have leaned towards Jalen Ramsey instead?
Bob Sturm: My perfect solution to this draft, I was asked a million times, what are you doing when it comes to No. 4? I did not imagine Jalen Ramsey was going to be available before everyone started making trades for quarterbacks. But once those trades happened, the Cowboys had a chance to take the best defensive player in the draft or maybe the best player in the draft, although quarterbacks always turn the market on its ear. So I thought the chance to get a blue-chip difference maker at corner or safety was a really great idea. But then, honestly, what governs my decision-making process at No. 4 is partly I would never take a running back that high, unless I was absolutely positive that player was Adrian Peterson or something similar. And I think with each passing year and each passing generation, running back is becoming less and less important. The Cowboys are trying, I think, by kind of using their 1990s philosophy. In 2014 it was pretty convincing, but the rest of the NFL doesn't really believe that 1990s football works. They believe it's a passing league. And we know this. We can look at any Cowboys game in the last couple of years. Where the game is in doubt if the Cowboys are tied or behind, pretty much every play they call is going to be a pass. So in that situation, if you're tied or behind, late in a game the game's on the line you obviously pay your quarterback what you do because he now decides the outcome of the game. They had DeMarco Murray in 2014. DeMarco Murray helped ice away a few games. But when they needed rallies, heck when they were trying to rally against Detroit in the playoffs or Green Bay in the playoffs they weren't running the ball in the fourth quarter. They weren't running the ball at all. So to put all of that in a running back seems crazy.
Kevin Sherrington: I will say this. I was stunned by the second-round pick of Jaylon Smith.
Barry Horn: What about this? What if they had taken Ramsey with the first pick and if they wanted a running back taken Derrick Henry with the second pick? Would you have liked that better?
Sturm: Oh my gosh yes. I think Derrick Henry with this team would have absolutely destroyed teams. And that's not at all me saying Ezekiel Elliot is not a really good player. I will stop short of saying he has Adrian Peterson or Todd Gurley traits, but I still think far and away he is the best RB in this market. That said, with the Dallas Cowboys specific situation of having so much talent on their offensive line and so much success running the ball with replacement level running backs like Darren McFadden, it seems foolish to me to take your biggest asset and fix something that's not broken. So basically, if you could get a top college running back, maybe not the best one, but the second or third or fourth best running back, later on in this draft, kind of using the same theory with Dak Prescott, we like the kid, but there' a price where its too expensive so let's wait, that's what I wish they would have done at running back. That, I think would have been the better way to skin the cat. That said, if the object of the game is to leave the draft with elite talent you didn't already have, to get Ezekiel Elliot and Jaylon Smith assuming thy have medial information that gives them the likelihood Jaylon Smith will be Jaylon Smith again really soon within 12 months, that's still a pretty good day. I know everyone wants an A+ or an F grade on every single draft. I'm just not that type of guy. I think we require a little nuance here. I think they did okay. I think they could done better. But I realize every Cowboy fan is so excited that Ezekiel Elliot is Emmitt Smith so I don't want to rain on the parade. I just think they could have spent slightly differently.
Sherrington: It seems funny to me they're so intent right now on building with linebackers. We have Sean Lee, terrific linebacker. I'd say Sean Lee was as good of a linebacker they've had in the past 25 years when he's healthy. And then you add Jaylon Smith, that's another guy with tremendous athletic ability. Are we talking about the difference in the game today because of what's required from a linebacker in coverage or is that just a completely different mindset all together?
Sturm: I think what's interesting though, I do think at some point you're required to do a little draft study and kind of cross reference it with career spans. And I think the positions of Ezekiel Elliot and Jaylon Smith are the two positions where the NFL has kind of stopped over paying for because they are high-collision positions where it's impossible for human beings to endure for years at a time and live long careers. We always talk about the money four positions, quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher and cornerback. These are long life span positions. There are exceptions of course to every rule, but if you are a run and hit linebacker, or a running back, odds are by the time you're 28 teams are going to get a little squeamish about offering you a five-year deal.
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Exactly how I feel. Well said, Sturm.
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I was on record saying I didn't like the Smith decision. Love the kid and he was an awesome player (arguably best player in draft pre-injury) but I thought it was a high risk move that we couldn't really afford to take.
Still, if the organization had a higher grade on Elliott than Ramsey, they shouldn't be beat up for taking the higher rated player there. I think Ramsey is an exceptional athlete and was a good college player. But Elliott was an excellent athlete who was a superb college player and unquestionably the best player at his position in this draft. They couldn't afford to miss on this pick, and Elliott is more of a sure thing than Ramsey is.
The other thing that's easy to do now (as Sturm did) is say "well take player A here and then player B was still available in the next round". Nobody knows that when things are happening live. There were a lot of people who thought Henry would sneak into late round one.
But I wouldn't have picked Smith at 34. Not with our team coming off the kind of year they had.
Hoofbite
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It does.
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The issue was, is and will continue to be calling the running plays at the right time; and keeping the running back on the field who gives you the option and the threat to the defense. 2014s failure in the two playoff games was getting away from what got them there. Elliott might lead the league in rushing but clearing out the backfield or throw improbable plays when high percentage plays are necessary is still a chronic flare-up Jason has.
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Come on man, we all know coaching is an issue but you can't sit here and try to convince us that McFadden was a great goal line and short yardage runner. This team was horrible with that last year.
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Never answered because never saw it.
This draft choice changes nothing. We still don't know if Zeke is just going to be a cog in a committee of backs that collectively get only 200 or so carries, or is he going to be a feature back that gets 300 himself, like Murray in 2014.
The "theory" is borne out of fact - only one year under Garrett's tenure did we run the ball significantly. It's NOT his preferred type of football. Chuck and duck is.
Spending a #4 pick on a RB means sudden epiphany, sudden change in core philosophy? We can only hope so.
yimyammer
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Thats what I remembered you saying so I was surprised to hear you were positively commenting on Zeke given your perspective about Garrett
Bob Sacamano
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But look at what the blueprint is that teams are now following. Pass-rushing.
Instead of loading up on receivers so that it gives the defense too many players to cover; the smarter philosophy would be to take those DEs such as Von Miller, completely out of the game by running it down their throats.
Instead of loading up on receivers so that it gives the defense too many players to cover; the smarter philosophy would be to take those DEs such as Von Miller, completely out of the game by running it down their throats.
Bob Sacamano
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They didn't. It was reported that Ramsey was number 1 but Jerry pulled the trigger on Zeke.
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. Dooms nails another one. Only someone drunk or with no brain would think they seriously just spent the 4th pick of the draft on the guy and would use him as a guy that might get half the opps. Maybe its what you were hoping they'd do, so you'd have something else to bitch about. With Ezekiel Elliott, Cowboys won't have a committee approach
Todd Archer
ESPN Staff Writer
IRVING, Texas -- A year ago at this time, the biggest question about the Dallas Cowboys' running game in 2015 was the definition of roles.
Would Joseph Randle get the chance to show that DeMarco Murray left meat on the bone in 2014? Would Darren McFadden be the No. 1 back? Would the Cowboys go with some sort of committee approach to approximate the 1,845 yards Murray ran for?
There isn’t much of a question this year.
Not with the Cowboys selecting Ezekiel Elliott in the first round.
“You don’t pick a running back with the fourth pick of the draft unless you think he’s unique,” executive vice president Stephen Jones said.
The Cowboys drafted Elliott at No. 4 in an era in which running backs have become devalued. He is the first running back picked in the top five since Trent Richardson went No. 3 overall in 2012. He is just the seventh back since 2006 to be picked in the top 10, a list that includes McFadden, who went No. 4 overall in 2008 to the Oakland Raiders.
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the six running backs picked in the top five since 2005 have made one Pro Bowl. That was Ronnie Brown, who went No. 2 overall to the Miami Dolphins in 2005 and went to the Pro Bowl in 2008. The last running back picked in the top five to reach multiple Pro Bowls in his career was LaDainian Tomlinson, who went to five after being picked fifth overall in 2001 by the San Diego Chargers.
“If you’ve got one that’s special, one that brings something unique to the table, then, yeah, you use that guy more,” Jones said. “And you don’t use the committee. But if you’ve got some guys that it’s better to spread it around and led the guys do what they do best, then that can be effective to do. Obviously with the guy we just drafted he can do a little bit of everything and get in rhythm. He’s been very successful doing that. He’s caught the ball out of the backfield. He pass blocks. He rushes it very well. I think that’s why he’s been one of the more unique backs to come out in the last 10 years.”
Offensive coordinator Scott Linehan has relied mostly on one ballcarrier the last two seasons. Murray had a team-record 392 carries in 2014, with Randle having the second-most with 51. Last season McFadden had 236 carries and Randle had 76.
In the first six games, when Randle was the lead back, McFadden had just two games with at least 10 carries. Once Randle was cut, McFadden was the only back to have more than seven carries in a game. Four times McFadden had at least 20 carries. Three other times he had more than 15.
In 2014, the Cowboys had just two games in which two runners reached double-digit carries.
McFadden and Alfred Morris, who signed a two-year deal in free agency, might have to battle each other to be the No. 2 guy if Elliott is as successful as the Cowboys think. Lance Dunbar is recovering from a significant knee injury and is likely to open the season on the physically unable to perform list.
Having too many running backs isn’t necessarily a bad thing because of the pounding they take during a season. It is possible the Cowboys could find themselves in an envious position before the season starts, with a team perhaps wanting to make a low-cost deal for one of their veteran backs.
The Cowboys have months to work this out -- if something even needs to be worked out.
"We promote competition on our football team,” coach Jason Garrett said. “It's our job to try to bring the best players to our team. Everybody understands that. We make that abundantly clear. It's our job to make sure all the pieces of the puzzle fit together. To have a guy like Zeke Elliott available, we think that helps our team. To have Darren McFadden and Alfred Morris and Lance Dunbar and the other guys, it's a really healthy running back room.”
Just don’t expect a committee approach if Elliott is everything the Cowboys think he is.
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That's not what was reported the day of the draft. Numerous people that cover the team said Elliott was the #1 guy.
They also said all the offensive and defensive coaches were in agreement about taking Zeke.
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Jerry spun some things post draft. It was widely reported there was a split with the scouts wanting Ramsey and the coaches wanted Elliott.
Jerry also made up that the Ravens wanted Elliott so that fanboys everywhere would feel better about themselves. It apparently worked.