Making A Murderer

[cockstrong]

That key they "found" really irks me.

The fourth time they search that room, and it's the first time they see it in plain sight? And to top it off, it's two of the local law enforcement people who were days earlier being deposed in that case against the police dept. that find it?

Give me a break.

Those guys weren't supposed to be there to begin with

 

[Iamtdg]

Those guys weren't supposed to be there to begin with

Agreed. See #4 in my list above.

 

[cockstrong]

1. How the hell did they shoot her and not leave one drop of blood on the concrete or down in the cracks present in the concrete?

2. So, say they did pull off this forensics nightmare and were able to clean off all the blood in the garage. How the fuck after all that work would they leave an obvious blood smear OF THEIR OWN DNA on the victim's vehicle?

3. They found Teresa Halbach's DNA on the key. Oh wait, no they didn't. They just found Avery's and no other. So, you're telling me the key she used every. single. day. didn't have a shred of her DNA on it?

4. The Manitiwoc Sheriff's Department gave over the investigation to another department so as to remove bias from the equation, and then immediately begin helping with the investigation.

5. I am no lawyer, but I'm pretty fucking sure you don't normally leave your 16 year old half-****** client to get questioned without you present. Let alone encourage it.

6. Again, I'm no lawyer, but since when is it appropriate for the DEFENSE lawyer to spend 3 hours coercing a confession out of his own fucking client?

That's all for now, but as I think more on it, I will post more thoughts.

How about the syringe hole in his vial of blood that was in police custody

 

[Iamtdg]

How about the syringe hole in his vial of blood that was in police custody

There have been evidence experts that have come out now and said the hole in the end of the vial isn't unusual. But, doesn't change the fact that the styrofoam container was broken into.

 

[Sheik]

I would say there's only one guy in the world that could have killed Halbach in that trailer or garage and not left any of her DNA.

Trouble is, I know for a fact he was working as a logger at the time of the murder.

 

[peplaw06]

Defense teams do it all the time to present a different scenario which they hope would lead to reasonable doubt. It's not for the prosecutor to bring up all scenarios, just their theory which (hopefully) they can piece together (from the evidence) and prove with evidence.

Sure they do it. I'm saying it shouldn't be required. Defense attorneys use them to help create doubt. But there was enough doubt in this case without any alternative theories IMO.

 

[peplaw06]

5. I am no lawyer, but I'm pretty fucking sure you don't normally leave your 16 year old half-****** client to get questioned without you present. Let alone encourage it.

6. Again, I'm no lawyer, but since when is it appropriate for the DEFENSE lawyer to spend 3 hours coercing a confession out of his own fucking client?

Both of those guys should have lost whatever licenses they have. I was cringing watching that.

 

[Iamtdg]

Both of those guys should have lost whatever licenses they have. I was cringing watching that.

Yeah, it was pretty bad. I mean the defense attorney's investigator or whatever he was basically looked like a cop trying to drag a confession out of someone. Hell, I had to rewind that episode to make sure it was the defense team doing it.

 

[Sheik]

Pep, how is it that the jury could arrive at Avery being guilty of the murder, but not the mutilation of the body?

You can't have one without the other IMO.

 

[Iamtdg]

Pep, how is it that the jury could arrive at Avery being guilty of the murder, but not the mutilation of the body?

You can't have one without the other IMO.

I think they pinned that on Dassey, but not 100% sure on that. Which would make this even more weird. It did seem like the two trials were not handled independently of each other. It seemed like they built both prosecution cases as one.

 

[Dodger12]

One motive they might have had is the fact that he was suing them. Any discredit they could bring to his name, the better it makes them look in the lawsuit.

The cops, even in the civil suit, were covered by the PD/County/State. They wouldn't pay damages out of pocket.

 

[Dodger12]

Sure they do it. I'm saying it shouldn't be required. Defense attorneys use them to help create doubt. But there was enough doubt in this case without any alternative theories IMO.

There wasn't any reasonable doubt at the trial and he was found guilty. The show was slanted to make him look like a patsy.

 

[yimyammer]

5. I am no lawyer, but I'm pretty fucking sure you don't normally leave your 16 year old half-****** client to get questioned without you present. Let alone encourage it.

based on what was shown in the show, the one who got screwed was Brandon, even if Stephen is guilty, I didn't see evidence that does anything but make Brandon appear to be a forced participant.

I feel like we've got to be missing substantial chunks of info regarding Brandon but if not, I think he should be freed immediately

He either had no involvement or if he was, it was under duress by Stephen.

 

[Sheik]

There wasn't any reasonable doubt at the trial and he was found guilty.

If she was killed in the manner that the state said she was, how do we explain away the fact that two way below average people left zero trace evidence?

That is where doubt creeps in for me. You shoot someone 11 times, slit their throat, stab them in the abdomen, yet there is no blood evidence in that garage? No blow back or spatter on all that shit in there? Avery DNA everywhere, but no blood/matter sprayed anywhere in there?

Impossible in my mind.

The only evidence in the case is pretty weak IMO. Way too many holes in the way it was obtained/tested.

Doubt all over the place.

 

[Sheik]

based on what was shown in the show, the one who got screwed was Brandon, even if Stephen is guilty, I didn't see evidence that does anything but make Brandon appear to be a forced participant.

I feel like we've got to be missing substantial chunks of info regarding Brandon but if not, I think he should be freed immediately

He either had no involvement or if he was, it was under duress by Stephen.

I think both of them will be exonerated in the near future. Brenden for sure. "Poor people lose." That's a quote from Avery, and it's the case in Brendens trial IMO, I think he'll eventually get better representation and be cleared just based on how his interrogators acted.

 

[yimyammer]

6. Again, I'm no lawyer, but since when is it appropriate for the DEFENSE lawyer to spend 3 hours coercing a confession out of his own fucking client?

lol, no shit, absolutely astonishing.

When I watched that part, I thought it was the police investigator, when I found out it was his attorney my head about exploded with shock

 

[Iamtdg]

The cops, even in the civil suit, were covered by the PD/County/State. They wouldn't pay damages out of pocket.

Didn't mean the department itself didn't feel slighted. Reparations aren't always monetary.

 

[Iamtdg]

There wasn't any reasonable doubt at the trial and he was found guilty. The show was slanted to make him look like a patsy.

For someone that admitted they didn't watch the show, you sure have a lot of opinions about it.

 

[Iamtdg]

based on what was shown in the show, the one who got screwed was Brandon, even if Stephen is guilty, I didn't see evidence that does anything but make Brandon appear to be a forced participant.

I feel like we've got to be missing substantial chunks of info regarding Brandon but if not, I think he should be freed immediately

He either had no involvement or if he was, it was under duress by Stephen.

Both Brendan and Stephen both should (at very least) be granted new trials. Just too much ambiguity in both of their trials.

 

[Iamtdg]

If she was killed in the manner that the state said she was, how do we explain away the fact that two way below average people left zero trace evidence?

That is where doubt creeps in for me. You shoot someone 11 times, slit their throat, stab them in the abdomen, yet there is no blood evidence in that garage? No blow back or spatter on all that shit in there? Avery DNA everywhere, but no blood/matter sprayed anywhere in there?

Impossible in my mind.

The only evidence in the case is pretty weak IMO. Way too many holes in the way it was obtained/tested.

Doubt all over the place.

No doubt.