In defense of Romo...

[Dodger12]

But still here we are, Romo was God and completely blameless for anything. It's alllll someone else's fault.

Complete strawman. No one ever claimed that, most certainly not me.

 

[Doomsday]

Complete strawman. No one ever claimed that, most certainly not me.

It's not what someone claimed, it's the gist of the defenders of Romo. He had no flaws and carried the worrrrrld on his shoulders including the Ginger coach and the drunk idiot GM, both of whom he loved and thought were great.

Tell me when we went 8 and 8 and had anything close to a top 10 defense.

Nobody made any such claim. I don't remember the last time we had a top 10 defense.

The 2013 Dallas Cowboys gave up more yards than all but 2 teams in NFL history. That span of football saw some of our worst defenses in team history. Yet, in 2013, Romo went 8 and 7 until he got hurt and Kyle Orton came on to shit the bed.

One really bad year doesn't support your earlier claim, that Romo "carried historically bad defenses." That's plural, and no of course his 10 picks and 4 fumbles and games going 3-11 in 1st down conversions didn't hurt that 2013 D any or put them in bad positions. Noooo, this was part of "carrying" them.

Romo never carried shit except Jerry and Ginger's water.

 

[Dodger12]

It's not what someone claimed, it's the gist of the defenders of Romo. He had no flaws and carried the worrrrrld on his shoulders including the Ginger coach and the drunk idiot GM, both of whom he loved and thought were great.

Well I didn't make the claim so don't attribute those comments to our discussion.

Nobody made any such claim. I don't remember the last time we had a top 10 defense.

You said the defenses were never "bad" (your exact word). The defense in 2013 was historically bad. In 2010 the D was ranked 31st in points allowed, in 2012 they were ranked 24th. In 2013 they were the worst D in the NFL. In 2014 we had a top 5 offense with a middle of the pack D. Interestingly, the D was 5th in points allowed in 2016 and we couldn't win a playoff game.

One really bad year doesn't support your earlier claim, that Romo "carried historically bad defenses."

See above.

 

[Doomsday]

Well I didn't make the claim so don't attribute those comments to our discussion.



You said the defenses were never "bad" (your exact word). The defense in 2013 was historically bad. In 2010 the D was ranked 31st in points allowed, in 2012 they were ranked 24th. In 2013 they were the worst D in the NFL. In 2014 we had a top 5 offense with a middle of the pack D. Interestingly, the D was 5th in points allowed in 2016 and we couldn't win a playoff game..

Just imagine if Romo hadn't been "carrying" them quite so much with all the picks and fumbles.

Also, he really surprised me with the back injuries. I never worried about his back, it was his neck which I always thought would finally give out from whiplash, all the times he suddenly jerked his head backwards, watching another of his pick sixes fly by.

Should have known that with all the "carrying" he was doing, the back would crap out first.

But... You're still not placing any blame whatsoever on him or even acknowledging his many faults and foibles.. Everything bad was someone else's fault, never Tony himself.

 

[Doomsday]

Shit, he carried the punters too. He said "interceptions are as good as punts." Damn, he was God. And with his many 3 and outs and the many games when we were 2-11 or 3-13 in 3rd down conversions, our punters led the league in attempts.

He was great for punters. he could do it all.

 

[Doomsday]

In 2014 we had a top 5 offense with a middle of the pack D.

The big improvement on defense was a lot more of a function of limiting Romo's pass attempts and instead, obstinately running the ball - which we finally learned is one of the best ways to protect your defense, by keeping them on the bench, fresh and rested and not getting hurt. (Everyone forgets that 2013 snakebit debacle of a season when we played something like 16 different d-linemen who weren't on the opening day roster?) By doing this you also don't have nearly as many games where you are 2 for 13 on 3rd down conversions, far fewer chances for the ole pick six, and far fewer chances for bed shitting.

It was proven that with Romo, less was more.

 

[ravidubey]

He was all too happy to be a celebrity QB, and would play hurt, try hard, and such, but he was never interested in being a champion because he would have won a SB if he had half the hatred of losing as Aikman.

The whole Cabo thing was him being a celebrity QB, and not taking the game seriously. It pisses people off to say that, but it's the truth. A person hungry enough to be a champion is focused on nothing but the game ahead.

Good lord.

Troy Aikman had the #1 defense, #1 RB, #1 OL, #1 TE, and #2 WR in the whole fricking league. And Romo still ate Aikman's lunch as a passer, flat out.

Troy was tough, but I never saw him play with broken ribs or a punctured lung. Hell, when the going got tough in a game vs the 49ers in 1995 Aikman banged his knee and left the game never to return.

Troy was great because he played his best game in the playoffs.

But he had fuckloads of help Romo never had anything resembling.

And I haven't even brought up Aikman's coaching, maybe the best Dallas has ever had.

 

[Dodger12]

Just imagine if Romo hadn't been "carrying" them quite so much with all the picks and fumbles.

Also, he really surprised me with the back injuries. I never worried about his back, it was his neck which I always thought would finally give out from whiplash, all the times he suddenly jerked his head backwards, watching another of his pick sixes fly by.

Should have known that with all the "carrying" he was doing, the back would crap out first.

But... You're still not placing any blame whatsoever on him or even acknowledging his many faults and foibles.. Everything bad was someone else's fault, never Tony himself.

I should have figured. When folks have nothing to back up their stupid claims they eventually revert to the dig route. No sweat.

The guy owns every passing record in team history. QB was not the problem during the Romo years. Coaching, a horrendous GM and a lack of talent on the defense diid this team in. We were 3 and 1 in the games Romo started in 2015 and his loss came against the Panthers when he came back too soon and got injured again. If anything, that season should proven to anyone with half a brain what Romo meant to that offense. We finished almost dead last (if not dead last) in offense that year and the offensive performances without Romo were the most pathetic exhibitions of football I've seen in my lifetime with the exception of when Babe took over for an injured Aikman.

 

[Dodger12]

The big improvement on defense was a lot more of a function of limiting Romo's pass attempts and instead, obstinately running the ball - which we finally learned is one of the best ways to protect your defense, by keeping them on the bench, fresh and rested and not getting hurt. (Everyone forgets that 2013 snakebit debacle of a season when we played something like 16 different d-linemen who weren't on the opening day roster?) By doing this you also don't have nearly as many games where you are 2 for 13 on 3rd down conversions, far fewer chances for the ole pick six, and far fewer chances for bed shitting.

It was proven that with Romo, less was more.

So your argument is running the ball effectively helps the QB, the D and the team in general? Thank you Captain Obvious but that argument is not mutually exclusive to Romo.

 

[NoMoRedJ]

When Aikman had to throw to scrubs and the overall talent level disappeared due to bad drafts. even he couldn't carry the team. And Aikman had the benefit of playing for Jimmy and I firmly believe it Parcells had stayed on another year or two this team could have gone to the SB. But bringing in Phillips and his laid back country bumpkin approach was as bad for this team as bringing in Switzer. And then we doubled down by giving Romo the Red Dolt.

Troy was one of the most marketable players of his generation. If we had social media back then, his life would have been dissected as well. He dated celebrities, team employees, hung around with country singers and even released an album or something like that. Cabo was more about the HC who gave the whole team time off instead of keeping them focused. It was who Wade was.

Romo didn't get it done and at the end of the day, he'll be looked as a poor man's Danny White, as he should. He's not on the level of Staubach or Aikman. But Romo was the only thing that gave this team any chance to compete. It certainly wasn't the coaching or the GM that gave him very little to work with, especially on D, for most of his career. At the end of the day, he made scrubs like Miles Austin and Laurent Robinson millionaires. He also made a slow, prodding TE a first ballot HOF'er. And I also think it's clear now that Dez Bryant owes his millions to Romo as well. And the Red Dolt owes his fortunes to Romo as well. He covered up everyone's flaws, including some putrid OL play. And there's also a reason Jerry loves Romo so much. The man helped him build his monument to his ego because without a true franchise QB, no way Jerry sells those high priced seats. Bottom line is Romo carried this team and it's front office for years.

Garrett owes Romo 99% of his coaching salary.

 

[NoMoRedJ]

Good lord.

Troy Aikman had the #1 defense, #1 RB, #1 OL, #1 TE, and #2 WR in the whole fricking league. And Romo still ate Aikman's lunch as a passer, flat out.

Troy was tough, but I never saw him play with broken ribs or a punctured lung. Hell, when the going got tough in a game vs the 49ers in 1995 Aikman banged his knee and left the game never to return.

Troy was great because he played his best game in the playoffs.

But he had fuckloads of help Romo never had anything resembling.

And I haven't even brought up Aikman's coaching, maybe the best Dallas has ever had.

A lil over the top but yea Troy had a much better team around him most season when the team had success. Romo had a 13-3 team and they got bounced in the playoffs. I doubt that happens with Troy.

Tony doesnt get enuff credit for carrying Garretts boil infested red cheeks but he never was as good as Troy.

 

[Dodger12]

Good lord.

Troy Aikman had the #1 defense, #1 RB, #1 OL, #1 TE, and #2 WR in the whole fricking league. And Romo still ate Aikman's lunch as a passer, flat out.

Troy was tough, but I never saw him play with broken ribs or a punctured lung. Hell, when the going got tough in a game vs the 49ers in 1995 Aikman banged his knee and left the game never to return.

Troy was great because he played his best game in the playoffs.

But he had fuckloads of help Romo never had anything resembling.

And I haven't even brought up Aikman's coaching, maybe the best Dallas has ever had.

I'm a huge Romo fan and appreciate what he brought to the table but I'm a bigger Aikman fan. Aikman was plenty tough. He played a playoff game against the packers on one leg in what Mike Holmgren described as one of the greatest games he's seen a QB play. I think Aikman finished out a playoff game (NFC Championship game vs 49ers ?) with a concussion and didn't remember the game. The hits he took forced him to retire and I have no doubt that had Aikman played in today's NFL, his passing numbers would be off the charts with his accuracy and arm talent.

I absolutely agree that Aikman had Jimmy and a great D. But Aikman was a great QB on a great team with great coaching.

 

[Dodger12]

A lil over the top but yea Troy had a much better team around him most season when the team had success. Romo had a 13-3 team and they got bounced in the playoffs. I doubt that happens with Troy.

Tony doesnt get enuff credit for carrying Garretts boil infested red cheeks but he never was as good as Troy.

Completely agree Red. Good post.

 

[English Cowboy]

Good lord.

Troy Aikman had the #1 defense, #1 RB, #1 OL, #1 TE, and #2 WR in the whole fricking league. And Romo still ate Aikman's lunch as a passer, flat out.

Troy was tough, but I never saw him play with broken ribs or a punctured lung. Hell, when the going got tough in a game vs the 49ers in 1995 Aikman banged his knee and left the game never to return.

Troy was great because he played his best game in the playoffs.

But he had fuckloads of help Romo never had anything resembling.

And I haven't even brought up Aikman's coaching, maybe the best Dallas has ever had.

Romo was the more talented passer, even Aikman has admitted as much. But I'd still take Aikman over Romo any day purely because he was more consistent, both within a game and during a season. You always knew what you were getting with Aikman, whereas with Romo it was all peaks and troughs.

Aikman was the perfect QB for that early 90's team. He had the humility to realize how talented the supporting cast were and tailor his game accordingly. I'm not sure Romo would have had the patience to hand the ball off to Emmitt 30+ times a game. He'd probably have got bored and be checking out of run plays before the end of the 1st quarter. I actually think Romo wanted the Cowboys' fortunes to be all on him. He liked it that way. He only realized too late that you can't do it all on your own. In 2014, with Demarco Murray leading the NFL in rushing, you saw the more rounded QB he could have been. But by then it was too late as his body was falling apart.

And as for coaching. Aikman won a Superbowl with Barry Switzer as his HC. Barry Fucking Switzer.

 

[dbair1967]

Good grief people, let it go.

 

[dbair1967]

Romo was the more talented passer, even Aikman has admitted as much. But I'd still take Aikman over Romo any day purely because he was more consistent, both within a game and during a season. You always knew what you were getting with Aikman, whereas with Romo it was all peaks and troughs.

Aikman was the perfect QB for that early 90's team. He had the humility to realize how talented the supporting cast were and tailor his game accordingly. I'm not sure Romo would have had the patience to hand the ball off to Emmitt 30+ times a game. He'd probably have got bored and be checking out of run plays before the end of the 1st quarter. I actually think Romo wanted the Cowboys' fortunes to be all on him. He liked it that way. He only realized too late that you can't do it all on your own. In 2014, with Demarco Murray leading the NFL in rushing, you saw the more rounded QB he could have been. But by then it was too late as his body was falling apart.

And as for coaching. Aikman won a Superbowl with Barry Switzer as his HC. Barry Fucking Switzer.

Aikman was never one to toot his own horn.

Romo was not even remotely close to the passing talent Aikman was due. Open your damn eyes.

 

[dbair1967]

Good lord.

Troy Aikman had the #1 defense, #1 RB, #1 OL, #1 TE, and #2 WR in the whole fricking league. And Romo still ate Aikman's lunch as a passer, flat out.

Troy was tough, but I never saw him play with broken ribs or a punctured lung. Hell, when the going got tough in a game vs the 49ers in 1995 Aikman banged his knee and left the game never to return.

Troy was great because he played his best game in the playoffs.

But he had fuckloads of help Romo never had anything resembling.

And I haven't even brought up Aikman's coaching, maybe the best Dallas has ever had.

JFC man. There isn't a personnel man alive or dead that would take Tony Romo ahead of Troy Aikman.

Sometimes I wonder what some of you people were fucking watching.

 

[Scot]

There is a pretty simple solution to this debate

If the Cowboys somehow made it to the Super Bowl and you could take either Aikman or Romo in their prime into that game, who would you take?

Which QB in their prime gives you a better chance to win you the Super Bowl?

Passing yards, passing td’s, QB rating..... blah blah blah

None of that shit matters, none of those stats matter.

The one and only goal of every single player in the entire NFL is to win the Super Bowl. Period!

Which QB do you trust more to win you that sixth Cowboy Super Bowl?

 

[dbair1967]

That isn't all. The size, talent, work ethic, leadership skills.

Romo deserves credit for doing what he did, but he wasn't close to Aikman.

Like I said there isn't a personnel guy dead or alive that if given the choice between the two, would pick Romo over Aikman

 

[yimyammer]

Romo was the more talented passer, even Aikman has admitted as much. But I'd still take Aikman over Romo any day purely because he was more consistent, both within a game and during a season. You always knew what you were getting with Aikman, whereas with Romo it was all peaks and troughs.

Aikman was the perfect QB for that early 90's team. He had the humility to realize how talented the supporting cast were and tailor his game accordingly. I'm not sure Romo would have had the patience to hand the ball off to Emmitt 30+ times a game. He'd probably have got bored and be checking out of run plays before the end of the 1st quarter. I actually think Romo wanted the Cowboys' fortunes to be all on him. He liked it that way. He only realized too late that you can't do it all on your own. In 2014, with Demarco Murray leading the NFL in rushing, you saw the more rounded QB he could have been. But by then it was too late as his body was falling apart.

And as for coaching. Aikman won a Superbowl with Barry Switzer as his HC. Barry Fucking Switzer.

I like Romo and agree with Dodger et al's takes on him but I don't think he would have stood a chance in the era Troy played in when defenses could slaughter QBs without penalties, fines, etc...not to mention the rule changes that favor the offense so much today.

I'm not sure Romo would have been able to play another game had he been under center in the game Troy got sacked something like 9 times vs the eagles.

Troy was tough as shit and built to withstand a beating that Romo could never endure